Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Aeodahn Jan 14, 2014 6:04:53	EDIT: For the sake of clarity Ill post the new question here.   So the plan was originally a warblade with Iaijutsu Focus. That still holds true to some extend but the Iaijutsu focus is basically just being used as another strike now when the opportunities present themself. The DM gave me Iaijutsu Focus as a class skill, so I will keep ranks up in it and my katana has the focus ability as well as a least crystal of return for quickdraw. I will be using no other tricks to optimize my Iaijutsu. Instead this is going to be about optimizing my martial adept for a combo of damage and survivability. I do not care if I am the one being targeted, so I am not a 'tank' per se, but I do want to be able to survive when I do get hit.   I am currently level 3 warblade and we just earned our 4th level though I have not leveled up yet. We were allowed 2 flaws, and my current feat selection is: Dodge, Karmic strike, Improved Initiative, Power Atack, Combat Reflexes. (My DM allowed the OA version of Karmic Strike which is the same mechanically but does not have combat expertise as a requirement.   I want to capitalize on 2 hand katana wielding damage. All books are open. What I really want to know is where to go with the build. I have way to many ideas but I'm really not sure what comes out stronger.   I thought about going Warblade 20. I thought about going Warblade 16/Crusader 4 and timing the crusader dips to pick up a few select maneuvers. I thought about going a mix of Warblade/Crusader into MoN and then back to Warblade/Crus. I think this can get my an IL of 17 in warblade and 15 in Crusader or vice versa.   I want to have a healthy selection of maneuvers, high damage output, and good survivability (which is where the desire for crusader levels come from. Some of the Devoted spirit abilities are just great!)   I am open to other classes as well, but please don't point me towards slinging fire balls and lightning bolts. This is a character meant to be a samurai. Other Samurai type weapons are definately up for grabs. I have a MWK naginata and a +4 mighty comp longbow to go with my katana already.   You guys have helped me plenty in the past but I call on you one more time, I also apologize for the previous responses that although very informative and appreciated are now going to waste =(.   -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------   So our last campaign ended when the other party member of our gestalt game got themselves killed in a foolish fashion (only a two member party). They did not want to introduce a new character and the DM was not entirely happy with the way the game was going anyways, so here I am building a new character. It is an oriental themed game.   I want to be a melee samurai type of character, however the OA samurai class is trash. I asked if I could have Iaijutsu Focus as a class skill on the Warblade and the DM thought that was a great idea, so that is the route I believe I will take. So, on to the build.   Race: Human (bonus feat is nice, and it is a very racist society so this is not changeable)   Stats: 90 points to split between stats as I see fit. That amounts to 15 in each if I like, but I am thinking along the lines of:           STR: 18      DEX: 12      CON: 18      INT:    14      WIS:   10      CHR:  18 (Any input on this stat allocation would be appreciated)   Fighting style: Warblade focusing on Diamond mind, Iron heart, White Raven. I intend to take the normal choices from those 3 disciplines but Saphire Nightmare Blade will probably stick with me for quite some time as it sets up my Iaijutsu Strikes quite nicely. I do not want to use Gnome quick razors. The build is going to use a Katana. I understand this is not my most optimal choice but flavor is important on this one so I ask for help within that confine.   So further questions I have are: Is Iaijutsu worth it if I am not cheesing with quick razors? If so, is it worth investing in such feats as Skill Focus: Iaijutsu Focus? Are their any recommendations for feat selection? Other than the Iaijutsu I am thinking to build the character very much a typical 2 hand fighter style ie: power attack, leap attack, shock trooper etc (taking what I can with the limited feat selection). Also, the race needs to be human or close to it. Atleast passable as human in the society we will be playing in. I was considering a lesser aasimar. Worthwhile? Or any other templates la+0 human look-a-likes out there that would suit this better?   Please help me make this thematic samurai character the best he can be within the confines of flavor. All books  are on the table. As are dragon/dungeon mags. Anything 3rd party is case by case, but as this is the first non gestalt game we've played in a while the DM is being lenient.   EDIT: Game is NOT gestalt. Multi classing and dipping are fine and xp penalties are NOT enforced. One flaw allowed. Really considering a dip into OA samurai just for the first 2 levels to grab Ancestral Daisho as the dm is not extremely forthcoming with itemcs, and that extra feat at level 2. Or a 2 level dip in fighter for 2 extra feats. Worth giving up one initiator level for?
#2 Tempest_Stormwind Jan 14, 2014 10:15:15	*90* PB? are you freaking kidding me?   Even if that doesn't account for the disproportionately high value of higher scores (you'll notice that under standard point-buy, going from a 13 to a 14 is much cheaper than going from a 17 to an 18), that's still patently ludicrous in terms of how powerful your character will be.   Of course, with that said...   I'd move some points from Charisma to Intelligence if you're starting high enough level to have Battle Cunning. The iaijutsu formula is (check-5)/5 d6 (max 9d6 at DC 50), which means that each point of Charisma bonus can be expected to raise the damage by 1/5th of a d6, or +0.7. Meanwhile, Battle Cunning adds Intelligence to damage against flat-footed targets, which anyone you hit with SNB will be - meaning every point of Intelligence bonus will raise the damage by 1. This is on top of the warblade's other Intelligence synergies (Reflex saves, opposed checks, critical confirmation and so on), and before you consider that items that boost a skill are particularly cheap. The only reason to have Charisma that high is if you're trying to use iaijutsu from the really, really low levels, and even then I think you'd get better results moving the spare points to Intelligence or Dexterity.   You can make an argument that Charisma is worth it if you're aiming for Iaijutsu Master... but Iaijutsu Master is really bad, honestly, compared to what a straight-up warblade can get you.   Working within the katana model, you can save a feat and use Sapphire Nightmare Iaijutsu successfully much earlier if you're using a Least Crystal of Return (MIC). However, the real reason quickrazors are used at all is because they quick-sheathe. No other weapon does this, even with Quick Draw or the Least Crystal. You must have a quick-sheathe effect if you're trying to do iaijutsu properly at all, unless you want to pay through the nose for four to six other weapons. This is what you must argue with your DM about. (Often, I find that +9d6 at a DC 50 check is pretty teensy compared to how much effort has to go into arguing for quick-sheathe.)   In terms of basic warblade iaijutsu, here's my thoughts on it from a couple years ago. You can skip the paragon levels if your DM is houseruling Iaijutsu Focus onto the warblade list (meaning the race is also open - Lesser Aasimar is almost always a good choice, although quite honestly I do prefer the human / silverbrow / azurin bonus feat). I did miss out on one observation there, though - several Tiger Claw jump strikes, such as Death from Above, also catch the target flat-footed, and they're much stronger than Sapphire Nightmare (which requires ranking up Concentration in a build that might not otherwise use it).   Be advised that it's hard to do iaijutsu properly without, say, the factotum. This isn't just for the class skill front, it's for other synergies as well (not the least of which is Brains over Brawn for Int to every single Str/Dex check you'll ever make, including Initiative). For instance, a Factotum 8 / Warblade 12 build (take one level of warblade early for SNB, then rush for Cunning Surge) can deliver a White Raven Strike to catch the target flat-footed, then trigger Cunning Surge for an iaijutsu-augmented normal strike, then repeat the surge until you're out of inspiration or maneuvers or the target is dead.
#3 StevenO Jan 14, 2014 10:35:29	Tempest_Stormwind wrote:
#4 Tempest_Stormwind Jan 14, 2014 12:17:35	StevenO wrote:
#5 Aeodahn Jan 14, 2014 13:12:09	Thanks for the quick replies guys.   As far as the stats go, I am well aware of how powerful they are. Our gaming group is only 2 players + a DM. He runs a mix of premade modules and a lot of homebrew. It is mostly designed for regular parties of 4+ members. For the past while we have been doing gestalt games to try and bring the parties power level up to better handle the challenges. However, the DM has decided to get away from gestalt and so he pitched this idea to the other player and I. I didnt ask why, I just follow the rules he sets before me. My opinion is that this is his way of "easing" us out of gestalt. Take away gestalt but give us powerful stats, then I would imagine the next game we will find outselves with a more typical number to work with. As far as being 'godly' powerful, well a lot of people share that opinion on gestalt characters, especially certain combo's. The DM had no problem keeping us challenged in those games so I dont see him having trouble here. Power level of a character is really only relevant in comparison to what the DM throws at us. He certainly made use of gestalt bbeg's in past games so I would imagine we will face a few with stat lines like ours in this one.   Anyways. Moving on to the point at hand.   Factotum. Thats an intesting idea and quite honestly not one I had even considered. I've never really thought of putting factotum into a build outside of gestalt so I'll have to have another read of it. Tempest, both the build in the link you posted and the one you just replied with are very informative and inspiring, thank you for that. I am beginning to wonder though if maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree here. I really want to maintain the flavor of a katana so that is going to limit my Iaijutsu strikes in a serious way unless I start wasting standard actions to sheath it. Perhaps I should just drop the idea, I can still have a very samurai feel with the warblade levels anyways.   If I do pursue this, I am leaning more and more towards 2 levels of samurai, and I think I am going to steer clear of iaijutsu master completley. Would it be worthwhile to throw in a couple fighter levels, or martial rogue or something for bonus feats a little later on when some of the good ones (ie robilars gambit) become available? Say something like Samura 2/Warblade 10/fighter 2/Warblade 6? For the record...I am terrible at optimization if that wasn't already apparent. My mind just doesn't come up with the synergies, combinations, and timing that I can find in answers here. Both of you guys have helped me in the past and I appreciate you doing so again. Thank you.
#6 aelryinth Jan 14, 2014 16:31:39	If you're going to use Iajitsu, The Master's +Cha to each die of damage is basically impossible to duplicate with any other class.   If iajitsu is not a primary focus and just an add-on to sneak attack damage or something, it's a good decision.   ==Aelryinth
#7 Andarious-Rosethorn Jan 14, 2014 17:47:09	There are a LOT of +damage options out there, look into the Meditant or the Dreamblade in Tempests sig for a Warblade that fights a lot like an Iajutsu master without actually using the skill. You focus your mind in order to land heavy strikes, but are in no way required to draw before each strike. Dreamblade's simple and straight foreward and makes good use of Psionic Focus as a way to add more damage to your attacks, can it use a Katana? Absolutely, and you don't even need EWP to use it since you will be using both hands on the blade like any self respecting traditional samurai. After all you're not some Ronin or Shinobi.
#8 Tempest_Stormwind Jan 16, 2014 14:53:58	Aeodahn wrote:
#9 aelryinth Jan 15, 2014 16:31:21	Keep in mind that I'm the guy who uses the OA rule for Iajitsu.   It's not a Sneak Attack variant, it only applies in duels where the other person is fully aware of it, or if you're able to concentrate otherwise for a full round. Iajitsu is used in a duel, not just as an add-on damage source.   In doing so, it becomes nigh impossible to use strikes with it, because the iajitsu draw and strike is an action all its own.   But, meh. The Rokugan books clarified how it was supposed to work, not how people started using it.   ==Aelryinth
#10 daedhaed Jan 16, 2014 14:24:29	You and the other player in the group should both take leadership. That way it turns into a 4 man party and you can fill in all the gaps with your cohorts. That might help mitigate the issue of only having 2 players.
#11 Aeodahn Jan 24, 2014 17:54:58	Bumping as the question has completley changed. See first post please.