Char Help PLEASE - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Adrossin Nov 22, 2013 1:55:43	I am playing a long term campaign with a very deadly DM so every one is told to make a uber char no Homebrew 3.5 books only i wanna make a char much like http://swordartonline.wikia.com/wiki/Kayaba_Akihiko his alter ego heathcliff he as perfect defense and offense at the same time and is also the creator and Gm of the game so would like to be able to do some self buffs like extra turns slowing enemies self buffs and debuffs on enemies while be able to still dish out really good damage and being able to take hits like a True tank should be able to i am allowed to gestalt class and most char templates wanna look completly human tho and all races r allowed please help all i can think is phycic warrior and fighter combo
#2 Tempest_Stormwind Nov 22, 2013 14:18:57	You haven't mentioned what level you're playing at, which is super important for this. We can't answer without that. You also might want to read this. Even without knowing starting level, I sincerely doubt you'll be able to pull this off on a pure fighter-type without using divine ranks. A divine persistent cleric with the right fluff on their spells ("GM hacks") would be your best bet, particularly if they have access to the Celerity line of spells somehow (Magic domain, say).
#3 awaken_D_M_golem Nov 22, 2013 13:33:34	"really good damage" Endarire's Hood fits this bill http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1659301 Wonder how sticking Twice Betrayer Of Shar on the other side, would work ?! Y'know, for the de-buffing part (wink).
#4 Maat_Mons Nov 22, 2013 13:47:33	I'd definitely use psion instead of psychic warrior if it's a gestalt game. Everything it lacks that you want can be acquired from the other side of your gestalt combo. Any overlap between the classes in a gestalt pairing is waste. If you want to fight with heavy armor and a shield, crusader (Tome of Battle, p8) would be the best option for the other side.
#5 Tempest_Stormwind Nov 22, 2013 14:25:10	Thing is, using heavy armor and a shield isn't a good move in 3.5, simply because of how the mechanics work - especially if your goal is to deal a lot of damage in melee (which is crucially dependent on using your weapon in two hands). Also, Maat's correct in general, but access to the psychic warrior power list is pretty powerful. The Psycarnum Warrior, in my signature, is an example of how powerful this can be if you solve the power point problem. I did, however, miss "gestalt" earlier. My default suggestion is Psion (Egoist) // Warblade, using mithral armor. Get the basic charge feats early on (Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Shock Trooper, Leap Attack), then go for manifesting feats (Overchannel, Expanded Knowledge (Schism), the Hustle power, etc.) and feats that let the two work together (Instant Clarity, Psychic Renewal, EK (Strength of My Enemy, Psionic Lion's Charge), etc.). In terms of survivability, Wall of Blades, Iron Heart Surge, Vigor+Share Pain+psicrystal, Concealing Amorpha, etc. will more than cover for any AC lost to Shock Trooper, assuming anything survives. Normally this would be Headlong Rush, but you did specify "human", not "orc".
#6 Adrossin Nov 24, 2013 19:36:34	ohhh we are starting at lvl one and building past 20 think he said all the way to like 60ish or something like that he wants us to be facing down certain gods at the end
#7 Adrossin Nov 24, 2013 19:40:54	and thanks for the submission really loving tghe warblade think i can do something with that just need that other half that dont really get any damage spells that just effect me like heathcliff does in the anime his little time stop to beat kirito and a mass paralyze things that a gm in a game would have
#8 Andarious-Rosethorn Nov 24, 2013 20:31:20	Actually if Elf isn't out then you'll get a pseudo timestop out of Island In Time just by taking Eternal Blade 10. Spellcasting you're talking about getting mostly a bunch of swift action enhancing spells. You'll get a lot of mileage out of the Ranger spell list and the Assassin spell list. Strange but effective way to get a lot of spells that will buff you is to go Archivist. It lets you potentially hand pick (via buying scrolls) a bunch of swift action buffing spells.
#9 Adrossin Nov 24, 2013 20:44:39	dont really like the eternal blade thing the guide throws it off for me thanks for the advice and as far as ranger an assassin looking for something more along the lines of a psionic class that give me defense and offense bonus with the paralyze and haste type line of spells
#10 Andarious-Rosethorn Nov 25, 2013 4:14:43	Psion (Egoist) will do the job well and have Int Synergy as well as enough bonus feats that you can probably pick up any out of list powers you realy want.
#11 Tempest_Stormwind Nov 25, 2013 10:26:24	Adrossin wrote:
#12 Krusk Nov 26, 2013 7:20:44	If you are starting at level 1, my advice is to ensure you will enjoy playing this character from level 1-11. Worry about the late stuff later, based on my experiences your game won't actually last until 60.
#13 Adrossin Nov 27, 2013 11:11:49	thanks for all your help im loving the time control warblade psion idea it gits really well with what i wanna become now just gotta really min/max it for this campaign everyone else has had years to perfect there fav uber char and im partly new to this stuff so yea me ill use 99% of what you said then throw in some fun parts on my own i dont know the race yet maybe human and thinking about taking exotic weapon bastard sword or should i just stick with a norm long sword ???
#14 Andarious-Rosethorn Nov 27, 2013 11:58:06	Go Greatsword and use Power Attack honestly. Otherwise you'll be hitting like a chump. If you must use a shield then just a Longsword is fine, and use +damage hits like those in White Raven and Iron Heart. It will help a bit with poor damage output but ideally you'll use a big nasty sword and strikes that allow full attacks (like Pouncing Charge and Time Stands Still) or deal multiplying damage (Ruby Nightmare Blade and Diamond Nightmare Blade). Most of the other strikes you'll want either have some really neat utility (like the White Raven Hammer line) or provide your team actions (like War Master's Charge). A lot of your maneuver choices should be powerful counters and as a Warblade a few assorted boosts. My playgroup has done a LOT with Tome of Battle so if you give us an end goal we can probably show you a nice sample loadout or two. Full 20 Warblade's nice if you really believe your game's going Epic. You'll get Dual Stance which is quite a nice capstone, and after that you can just stack on Fighter levels and take any and all of the neat feats you missed out on earlier.
#15 Tempest_Stormwind Nov 27, 2013 12:30:06	If you want something appropriate to this theme, and also a little cheesy, it's pretty easy to work in a Save-State trick as a time-control psion. You can also use Psychic Reformation and a thought bottle (CArc) to change out your entire build on the fly. If you're using the save state trick, you'll also need a psicrystal; these guys do wonders for frontliners, as you can combine Vigor with Share Pain and instantly, effectively, double your hit points. (We use this to protect our glass cannons and mages; you can use it to make yourself very, VERY tough.) Early on, damage is due to Power Attack and a weapon in two hands, sadly - if you want a shield, you cannot also deal decent damage. You might have to give up on the shield to make the character work.
#16 Adrossin Nov 27, 2013 13:19:15	couldent i wield a medium great sword in one hand with the monkey grip feet from Sword and Fist sure i loose 2 BAB but im also allowed one magic item and im really partial to a passive ring of true strike ???
#17 Tempest_Stormwind Nov 27, 2013 13:38:28	Adrossin wrote:
#18 Adrossin Nov 27, 2013 13:46:26	ok i think i get it a little better now like i said im kinda new to all this since i want to make my char a certain way tho i cant fully min max since i want a shield and since i do i should use a long sword one handed grab power attack and like you said use my stances and my manuvers to cover my defense and my offense while close up and really use my psion powers for buffing and debuffing and yes i do way over think i could have been a nuke in the navy and i over think everything it sad really gets me into trouble alot lol im just trying to make a char ill really enjoy playing that wont fall behind in this campaign cuz all my friends have had time to perfect there and the dm like stated above aint so nice to new players but gives alot of freedom to build how and what you want .
#19 Tempest_Stormwind Nov 27, 2013 14:01:17	Adrossin wrote:
#20 Andarious-Rosethorn Nov 27, 2013 15:21:37	I'll direct your attention to my Dreamblade build or the Meditant for a basic infrastructure on your Warblade side, you can actually absorb a lot of the feat cost with your Psion bonus feats, which is spectacular. This makes the whole mess come online that much sooner, and lets you switch race if you'd like to Human or other. Finally it frees up your late game feats for just about whatever you want. You'll hit like a truck, even without your own (very nice) buffs or debuffing your opponent. Your late game feats will most likely be reserved for Psionic trickery of some sort which I'm sure Tempest is bettter equipped to explain than I. As for the Dreamblade you can find it in Tempest's signature.
#21 Tempest_Stormwind Nov 28, 2013 18:48:06	Andarious-Rosethorn wrote:
#42 Adrossin Dec 02, 2013 12:33:05	well the way we roll is 5d6 reroll ones and no stats below 10 and for this one he also let us reroll the lowest dice and we keep the highest 3 again we got got really high stats it was the DM's plan.to give us all high stats and thanks for the tips on bestow power and on the shared pain the hole thing was confusing me like i said im new to all this so yea.
#43 Krusk Dec 02, 2013 15:15:07	With that ridicilus system why didn't he just tell everyone "all 18's" and be done with it?
#44 StevenO Dec 02, 2013 16:18:11	Krusk wrote:
#45 Slagger_the_Chuul Dec 02, 2013 20:29:10	The game most people are familiar with doesn't even touch on optimization; I mean, half the time it's like someone asking how to retune the engine in their factory-model hatchback, and getting advice about custom upgrades for their brand-new sportscar. You can't deny that one performs much better, but it's nowhere near the original scope. This is sort of the opposite side of that, because the regular advice that works for a "brand-new sportscar" just isn't that relevant for the "interdimensional deathstar" of a 60th-level game. The rolling method isn't even worth a blip on that radar.
#46 Adrossin Dec 02, 2013 20:33:41	stevenO i really like that idea for the dice mind if i use it if i ever DM ???
#47 StevenO Dec 02, 2013 22:29:33	If you're arleady rerolling 1s and 2s you might as will just roll d4s instead of d6s and add the +2 you would never get anyway with rolling. I couldn't keep you from rolling that way for ability scores but I would NEVER allow that to be used for ability score generation. The result produced as so crazy a person might just as well pick whatever they want for stats.
#48 Adrossin Dec 02, 2013 23:03:15	honestly i wanted to do a point buy system i like those more to be honest sure there are always min/max people who get the biggest bang for the buck for the most part its give even playing field to every player
#49 Slagger_the_Chuul Dec 03, 2013 0:18:14	The main merit of rolling is that you start with statistics that you didn't personally pick. It's essentially the same reason you roll the dice in-game, just used in character creation. Some people like that random element in the broader design of their character, some people don't, and there are countless rolling methods depending on what different groups consider to be an acceptable range for the results.
#50 StevenO Dec 03, 2013 20:11:46	Adrossin wrote:
#51 Slagger_the_Chuul Dec 08, 2013 3:06:02	StevenO wrote:
#52 Adrossin Dec 07, 2013 19:40:36	are there any class or Pclasses that deal with time beside monk varients ???
#53 Tempest_Stormwind Dec 07, 2013 20:18:30	Adrossin wrote:
#54 Krusk Dec 09, 2013 15:15:50	Planar Shepard is a druid prestige that can take some time altering abilities if you pick the right planes. Just be aware its just about the only thing to make druids stronger.
#55 Adrossin Dec 27, 2013 2:19:31	i havent forgotten about yall we just havent got to play the host has been mia and we only play once a week so yea il report back asap with first play result also what do yall think of a gestalt warblade swordsage
#56 Adrossin Dec 27, 2013 2:19:49	i havent forgotten about yall we just havent got to play the host has been mia and we only play once a week so yea il report back asap with first play result also what do yall think of a gestalt warblade swordsage
#57 Andarious-Rosethorn Dec 28, 2013 4:43:17	Gestalt's usually an excuse to play a full caster with extra HP, better saves and maybe some neat defensive abilities. Example, Druid/Swordsage who shifts and uses Tiger-Claw boosts/strikes to rip people apart. Psion/Warblade who has Concentration-Save counters and mad Int synergy. Generally that's the sort of thing that's powerful in Gestalt. Pairing two classes that virtually do the same thing as each other will result in not gaining much. Pairing two classes that have some major stat synergy and do very different things will end up being super strong.
#58 Krusk Dec 30, 2013 9:05:08	I think thats going to be super annoying to play. Tracking two seperate but occaisonally the same maneuver pools? ugh. Also, you are doubling down on the same concept, which is generally a bad idea. melee//Skills/Arcane/Divine are your 4 very high level concepts for gestalt. Your goal is to cover as many of the 4 as possible. Do warblade/Cleric or Swordsage/druid or something. A swordsage 20 // druid10 / planar shepard 10 even does your time stuff (but again thats ridicilus) Warblade cleric does melee, and divine which is nice. Swordsage/druid does skills/divine/melee which is a little better.
#59 Luna_Trigger Dec 30, 2013 14:02:15	As everyone else has said, a gestalt warblade/swordsage is a terrible combination. Not only do they not add very much, they're both "active" classes. When you make a gestalt character, you want one side to be active and one side to be passive. That is, one side uses your actions and the other side gives you buffs for free, more actions, and otherwise boosts your character without using actions. Also, it might not properly count as "time control," but a properly-build factotum can get a rather silly number of actions. If you don't go caster, Factotum//Warblade is a perfectly good combination. It's hard to go wrong with Factotum as your passive in gestalt
#60 Tempest_Stormwind Dec 30, 2013 14:49:24	Luna_Trigger wrote:
#61 Krusk Dec 31, 2013 10:44:06	A word on font. Font of Inspiration You have unearthed of well of inspiration from within your soul. Prerequisite: Int 15, Must have Inspiration as a class feature. Benefits: When you take this feat for the first time, you gain 1 inspiration point. Special: You can take this multiple times. Each time you take this feat after the first time, the number of inspiration points you gain increases by 1 (for example, you gain 2 inspiration points if you take the feat a second time). The maximum number of times you can take this feat is equal to your Intelligence modifier.
#62 Tempest_Stormwind Dec 31, 2013 11:21:46	I can't see how on earth you'd get the second interpretation. "The number of points you gain [when you take this feat]" increases by 1, so the first time you take the feat, you gain 1, the second you gain 1+1 or 2, the third you gain 2+1 or 3, and so on. With this, it's still only a strong tier 3. (The factotum's biggest strength apart from Cunning Surge is Arcane Dilettante (and largely using this on spells that are disproportionately strong, like Alter Self). Arcane Dilettante is NOT expanded if you have extra inspiration - although it costs you 1 inspiration to use a spell, you can still only use each spell once per day.) For the second interpretation, it would need to say "the total number of extra inspiration points" or similar - and such a statement is irrelevant (i.e. if it gave you +1 points each time you took it, it would only need to say "You gain 1 inpspiration point. You can take this feat multiple times and its effects stack." with no reference to the total number at all.)
#63 Krusk Jan 01, 2014 14:00:14	I said interpretation 2 was solidly middle of the road, so yeah that would put it T3 about. Each time you take this feat after the first time, the number of inspiration points you gain increases by 1 (for example, you gain 2 inspiration points if you take the feat a second time)
#64 Tempest_Stormwind Jan 01, 2014 14:32:24	Font of Inspiration's benefit, the first time: "When you take this feat for the first time, you gain 1 inspiration point." Its special changes this for subsequent times. Font of Inspiration's benefit, the second time: "You gain 2 inspiration points if you take the feat a second time." Font of Inspiration's benefit the third time (by extension from the Special text): "You gain 3 inspiration points if you take the feat a third time. You gain 1 inspiration + you gain 2 inspiration + you gain 3 inspiration = You gain 6 inspiration. There's nothing to suggest that each increases your maximum inspiration by 1 - a feat that did that would be HUGELY simpler in writing than Font. I'm positive WotC wrote a few NpCs here and there with the Psionic Talent feat, which uses the same scaling system. I'll see if I can't dig them up.
#65 Slagger_the_Chuul Jan 01, 2014 16:47:20	They also wouldn't usually go to the trouble of defining a special scheme for normal advancement. The typical text for describing the accumulation is something like "You can take this feat multiple times. Its effects stack." But clarity in this case would have been achieved by excluding the possibility of a cumulative meaning; including "total" inspiration points would have explicitly indicated at total, while leaving it out does leave a some room for ambiguity. Perhaps we should be thankful they didn't try to explain it with a formula: Formula of Inspiration wrote:
#66 Anagorisis Jan 02, 2014 21:26:36	Krusk wrote:
#67 Krusk Jan 03, 2014 14:17:31	There are a lot simpler ways to word the 1st interpretation too. "You gain +1 point" "Special, the second time you take this feat you gain an additional point, giving +2 for a total of +3. The third time you take it, you gain two additional points, for +3 giving +6 points total. And so on." Or something. And then, I hadn't seen that complete scoundrel NPC, but thats good to know.

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

Adrossin

Nov 22, 2013 1:55:43

I am playing a long term campaign with a very deadly DM so every one is told to make a uber char no Homebrew 3.5 books only i wanna make a char much like http://swordartonline.wikia.com/wiki/Kayaba_Akihiko his alter ego heathcliff he as perfect defense and offense at the same time and is also the creator and Gm of the game so would like to be able to do some self buffs like extra turns slowing enemies self buffs and debuffs on enemies while be able to still dish out really good damage and being able to take hits like a True tank should be able to i am allowed to gestalt class and most char templates wanna look completly human tho and all races r allowed please help all i can think is phycic warrior and fighter combo

Tempest_Stormwind

Nov 22, 2013 14:18:57

You haven't mentioned what level you're playing at, which is super important for this. We can't answer without that.

You also might want to read this.

Even without knowing starting level, I sincerely doubt you'll be able to pull this off on a pure fighter-type without using divine ranks. A divine persistent cleric with the right fluff on their spells ("GM hacks") would be your best bet, particularly if they have access to the Celerity line of spells somehow (Magic domain, say).

awaken_D_M_golem

Nov 22, 2013 13:33:34

"really good damage"

Endarire's Hood fits this bill

http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1659301

Wonder how sticking Twice Betrayer Of Shar on the other side, would work ?!

Y'know, for the de-buffing part (wink).

Maat_Mons

Nov 22, 2013 13:47:33

I'd definitely use psion instead of psychic warrior if it's a gestalt game. Everything it lacks that you want can be acquired from the other side of your gestalt combo. Any overlap between the classes in a gestalt pairing is waste.

If you want to fight with heavy armor and a shield, crusader (Tome of Battle, p8) would be the best option for the other side.

Tempest_Stormwind

Nov 22, 2013 14:25:10

Thing is, using heavy armor and a shield isn't a good move in 3.5, simply because of how the mechanics work - especially if your goal is to deal a lot of damage in melee (which is crucially dependent on using your weapon in two hands).

Also, Maat's correct in general, but access to the psychic warrior power list is pretty powerful. The Psycarnum Warrior, in my signature, is an example of how powerful this can be if you solve the power point problem.

I did, however, miss "gestalt" earlier. My default suggestion is Psion (Egoist) // Warblade, using mithral armor. Get the basic charge feats early on (Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Shock Trooper, Leap Attack*), then go for manifesting feats (Overchannel, Expanded Knowledge (Schism), the Hustle power, etc.) and feats that let the two work together (Instant Clarity, Psychic Renewal, EK (Strength of My Enemy, Psionic Lion's Charge), etc.). In terms of survivability, Wall of Blades, Iron Heart Surge, Vigor+Share Pain+psicrystal, Concealing Amorpha, etc. will more than cover for any AC lost to Shock Trooper, assuming anything survives.

*Normally this would be Headlong Rush, but you did specify "human", not "orc".

Adrossin

Nov 24, 2013 19:36:34

ohhh we are starting at lvl one and building past 20 think he said all the way to like 60ish or something like that he wants us to be facing down certain gods at the end

Adrossin

Nov 24, 2013 19:40:54

and thanks for the submission really loving tghe warblade think i can do something with that just need that other half that dont really get any damage spells that just effect me like heathcliff does in the anime his little time stop to beat kirito and a mass paralyze things that a gm in a game would have

Andarious-Rosethorn

Nov 24, 2013 20:31:20

Actually if Elf isn't out then you'll get a pseudo timestop out of Island In Time just by taking Eternal Blade 10. Spellcasting you're talking about getting mostly a bunch of swift action enhancing spells. You'll get a lot of mileage out of the Ranger spell list and the Assassin spell list. Strange but effective way to get a lot of spells that will buff you is to go Archivist. It lets you potentially hand pick (via buying scrolls) a bunch of swift action buffing spells.

Adrossin

Nov 24, 2013 20:44:39

dont really like the eternal blade thing the guide throws it off for me thanks for the advice and as far as ranger an assassin looking for something more along the lines of a psionic class that give me defense and offense bonus with the paralyze and haste type line of spells

#10

Andarious-Rosethorn

Nov 25, 2013 4:14:43

Psion (Egoist) will do the job well and have Int Synergy as well as enough bonus feats that you can probably pick up any out of list powers you realy want.

#11

Tempest_Stormwind

Nov 25, 2013 10:26:24

Adrossin wrote:

#12

Krusk

Nov 26, 2013 7:20:44

If you are starting at level 1, my advice is to ensure you will enjoy playing this character from level 1-11. Worry about the late stuff later, based on my experiences your game won't actually last until 60.

#13

Adrossin

Nov 27, 2013 11:11:49

thanks for all your help im loving the time control warblade psion idea it gits really well with what i wanna become now just gotta really min/max it for this campaign everyone else has had years to perfect there fav uber char and im partly new to this stuff so yea me ill use 99% of what you said then throw in some fun parts on my own i dont know the race yet maybe human and thinking about taking exotic weapon bastard sword or should i just stick with a norm long sword ???

#14

Andarious-Rosethorn

Nov 27, 2013 11:58:06

Go Greatsword and use Power Attack honestly. Otherwise you'll be hitting like a chump. If you must use a shield then just a Longsword is fine, and use +damage hits like those in White Raven and Iron Heart. It will help a bit with poor damage output but ideally you'll use a big nasty sword and strikes that allow full attacks (like Pouncing Charge and Time Stands Still) or deal multiplying damage (Ruby Nightmare Blade and Diamond Nightmare Blade). Most of the other strikes you'll want either have some really neat utility (like the White Raven Hammer line) or provide your team actions (like War Master's Charge). A lot of your maneuver choices should be powerful counters and as a Warblade a few assorted boosts.

My playgroup has done a LOT with Tome of Battle so if you give us an end goal we can probably show you a nice sample loadout or two. Full 20 Warblade's nice if you really believe your game's going Epic. You'll get Dual Stance which is quite a nice capstone, and after that you can just stack on Fighter levels and take any and all of the neat feats you missed out on earlier.

#15

Tempest_Stormwind

Nov 27, 2013 12:30:06

If you want something appropriate to this theme, and also a little cheesy, it's pretty easy to work in a Save-State trick as a time-control psion. You can also use Psychic Reformation and a thought bottle (CArc) to change out your entire build on the fly. If you're using the save state trick, you'll also need a psicrystal; these guys do wonders for frontliners, as you can combine Vigor with Share Pain and instantly, effectively, double your hit points. (We use this to protect our glass cannons and mages; you can use it to make yourself very, VERY tough.)

Early on, damage is due to Power Attack and a weapon in two hands, sadly - if you want a shield, you cannot also deal decent damage. You might have to give up on the shield to make the character work.

#16

Adrossin

Nov 27, 2013 13:19:15

couldent i wield a medium great sword in one hand with the monkey grip feet from Sword and Fist sure i loose 2 BAB but im also allowed one magic item and im really partial to a passive ring of true strike ???

#17

Tempest_Stormwind

Nov 27, 2013 13:38:28

Adrossin wrote:

#18

Adrossin

Nov 27, 2013 13:46:26

ok i think i get it a little better now like i said im kinda new to all this since i want to make my char a certain way tho i cant fully min max since i want a shield and since i do i should use a long sword one handed grab power attack and like you said use my stances and my manuvers to cover my defense and my offense while close up and really use my psion powers for buffing and debuffing and yes i do way over think i could have been a nuke in the navy and i over think everything it sad really gets me into trouble alot lol im just trying to make a char ill really enjoy playing that wont fall behind in this campaign cuz all my friends have had time to perfect there and the dm like stated above aint so nice to new players but gives alot of freedom to build how and what you want .

#19

Tempest_Stormwind

Nov 27, 2013 14:01:17

Adrossin wrote:

#20

Andarious-Rosethorn

Nov 27, 2013 15:21:37

I'll direct your attention to my Dreamblade build or the Meditant for a basic infrastructure on your Warblade side, you can actually absorb a lot of the feat cost with your Psion bonus feats, which is spectacular. This makes the whole mess come online that much sooner, and lets you switch race if you'd like to Human or other. Finally it frees up your late game feats for just about whatever you want. You'll hit like a truck, even without your own (very nice) buffs or debuffing your opponent. Your late game feats will most likely be reserved for Psionic trickery of some sort which I'm sure Tempest is bettter equipped to explain than I. As for the Dreamblade you can find it in Tempest's signature.

#21

Tempest_Stormwind

Nov 28, 2013 18:48:06

Andarious-Rosethorn wrote:

#42

Adrossin

Dec 02, 2013 12:33:05

well the way we roll is 5d6 reroll ones and no stats below 10 and for this one he also let us reroll the lowest dice and we keep the highest 3 again we got got really high stats it was the DM's plan.to give us all high stats and thanks for the tips on bestow power and on the shared pain the hole thing was confusing me like i said im new to all this so yea.

#43

Krusk

Dec 02, 2013 15:15:07

With that ridicilus system why didn't he just tell everyone "all 18's" and be done with it?

#44

StevenO

Dec 02, 2013 16:18:11

Krusk wrote:

#45

Slagger_the_Chuul

Dec 02, 2013 20:29:10

The game most people are familiar with doesn't even touch on optimization; I mean, half the time it's like someone asking how to retune the engine in their factory-model hatchback, and getting advice about custom upgrades for their brand-new sportscar. You can't deny that one performs much better, but it's nowhere near the original scope.

This is sort of the opposite side of that, because the regular advice that works for a "brand-new sportscar" just isn't that relevant for the "interdimensional deathstar" of a 60th-level game. The rolling method isn't even worth a blip on that radar.

#46

Adrossin

Dec 02, 2013 20:33:41

stevenO i really like that idea for the dice mind if i use it if i ever DM ???

#47

StevenO

Dec 02, 2013 22:29:33

If you're arleady rerolling 1s and 2s you might as will just roll d4s instead of d6s and add the +2 you would never get anyway with rolling.

I couldn't keep you from rolling that way for ability scores but I would NEVER allow that to be used for ability score generation. The result produced as so crazy a person might just as well pick whatever they want for stats.

#48

Adrossin

Dec 02, 2013 23:03:15

honestly i wanted to do a point buy system i like those more to be honest sure there are always min/max people who get the biggest bang for the buck for the most part its give even playing field to every player

#49

Slagger_the_Chuul

Dec 03, 2013 0:18:14

The main merit of rolling is that you start with statistics that you didn't personally pick. It's essentially the same reason you roll the dice in-game, just used in character creation.

Some people like that random element in the broader design of their character, some people don't, and there are countless rolling methods depending on what different groups consider to be an acceptable range for the results.

#50

StevenO

Dec 03, 2013 20:11:46

Adrossin wrote:

#51

Slagger_the_Chuul

Dec 08, 2013 3:06:02

StevenO wrote:

#52

Adrossin

Dec 07, 2013 19:40:36

are there any class or Pclasses that deal with time beside monk varients ???

#53

Tempest_Stormwind

Dec 07, 2013 20:18:30

Adrossin wrote:

#54

Krusk

Dec 09, 2013 15:15:50

Planar Shepard is a druid prestige that can take some time altering abilities if you pick the right planes. Just be aware its just about the only thing to make druids stronger.

#55

Adrossin

Dec 27, 2013 2:19:31

i havent forgotten about yall we just havent got to play the host has been mia and we only play once a week so yea il report back asap with first play result also what do yall think of a gestalt warblade swordsage

#56

Adrossin

Dec 27, 2013 2:19:49

#57

Andarious-Rosethorn

Dec 28, 2013 4:43:17

Gestalt's usually an excuse to play a full caster with extra HP, better saves and maybe some neat defensive abilities. Example, Druid/Swordsage who shifts and uses Tiger-Claw boosts/strikes to rip people apart. Psion/Warblade who has Concentration-Save counters and mad Int synergy.

Generally that's the sort of thing that's powerful in Gestalt. Pairing two classes that virtually do the same thing as each other will result in not gaining much. Pairing two classes that have some major stat synergy and do very different things will end up being super strong.

#58

Krusk

Dec 30, 2013 9:05:08

I think thats going to be super annoying to play. Tracking two seperate but occaisonally the same maneuver pools? ugh. Also, you are doubling down on the same concept, which is generally a bad idea. melee//Skills/Arcane/Divine are your 4 very high level concepts for gestalt. Your goal is to cover as many of the 4 as possible.

Do warblade/Cleric or Swordsage/druid or something. A swordsage 20 // druid10 / planar shepard 10 even does your time stuff (but again thats ridicilus)

Warblade cleric does melee, and divine which is nice. Swordsage/druid does skills/divine/melee which is a little better.

#59

Luna_Trigger

Dec 30, 2013 14:02:15

As everyone else has said, a gestalt warblade/swordsage is a terrible combination. Not only do they not add very much, they're both "active" classes. When you make a gestalt character, you want one side to be active and one side to be passive. That is, one side uses your actions and the other side gives you buffs for free, more actions, and otherwise boosts your character without using actions.

Also, it might not properly count as "time control," but a properly-build factotum can get a rather silly number of actions. If you don't go caster, Factotum//Warblade is a perfectly good combination. It's hard to go wrong with Factotum as your passive in gestalt

#60

Tempest_Stormwind

Dec 30, 2013 14:49:24

Luna_Trigger wrote:

#61

Krusk

Dec 31, 2013 10:44:06

A word on font.

Font of Inspiration

You have unearthed of well of inspiration from within your soul.

Prerequisite: Int 15, Must have Inspiration as a class feature.

Benefits: When you take this feat for the first time, you gain 1 inspiration point.

Special: You can take this multiple times. Each time you take this feat after the first time, the number of inspiration points you gain increases by 1 (for example, you gain 2 inspiration points if you take the feat a second time). The maximum number of times you can take this feat is equal to your Intelligence modifier.

#62

Tempest_Stormwind

Dec 31, 2013 11:21:46

I can't see how on earth you'd get the second interpretation. "The number of points you gain [when you take this feat]" increases by 1, so the first time you take the feat, you gain 1, the second you gain 1+1 or 2, the third you gain 2+1 or 3, and so on. With this, it's still only a strong tier 3. (The factotum's biggest strength apart from Cunning Surge is Arcane Dilettante (and largely using this on spells that are disproportionately strong, like Alter Self). Arcane Dilettante is NOT expanded if you have extra inspiration - although it costs you 1 inspiration to use a spell, you can still only use each spell once per day.)

For the second interpretation, it would need to say "the total number of extra inspiration points" or similar - and such a statement is irrelevant (i.e. if it gave you +1 points each time you took it, it would only need to say "You gain 1 inpspiration point. You can take this feat multiple times and its effects stack." with no reference to the total number at all.)

#63

Krusk

Jan 01, 2014 14:00:14

I said interpretation 2 was solidly middle of the road, so yeah that would put it T3 about.

Each time you take this feat after the first time, the number of inspiration points you gain increases by 1 (for example, you gain 2 inspiration points if you take the feat a second time)

#64

Tempest_Stormwind

Jan 01, 2014 14:32:24

Font of Inspiration's benefit, the first time: "When you take this feat for the first time, you gain 1 inspiration point."

Its special changes this for subsequent times.

Font of Inspiration's benefit, the second time: "You gain 2 inspiration points if you take the feat a second time."

Font of Inspiration's benefit the third time (by extension from the Special text): "You gain 3 inspiration points if you take the feat a third time.

You gain 1 inspiration + you gain 2 inspiration + you gain 3 inspiration = You gain 6 inspiration. There's nothing to suggest that each increases your maximum inspiration by 1 - a feat that did that would be HUGELY simpler in writing than Font.

I'm positive WotC wrote a few NpCs here and there with the Psionic Talent feat, which uses the same scaling system. I'll see if I can't dig them up.

#65

Slagger_the_Chuul

Jan 01, 2014 16:47:20

They also wouldn't usually go to the trouble of defining a special scheme for normal advancement. The typical text for describing the accumulation is something like "You can take this feat multiple times. Its effects stack." But clarity in this case would have been achieved by excluding the possibility of a cumulative meaning; including "total" inspiration points would have explicitly indicated at total, while leaving it out does leave a some room for ambiguity.

Perhaps we should be thankful they didn't try to explain it with a formula:

Formula of Inspiration wrote:

#66

Anagorisis

Jan 02, 2014 21:26:36

Krusk wrote:

#67

Krusk

Jan 03, 2014 14:17:31

There are a lot simpler ways to word the 1st interpretation too.

"You gain +1 point" "Special, the second time you take this feat you gain an additional point, giving +2 for a total of +3. The third time you take it, you gain two additional points, for +3 giving +6 points total. And so on."

Or something.

And then, I hadn't seen that complete scoundrel NPC, but thats good to know.