Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 rivlin1 Jul 13, 2011 5:19:39	Okay, so I've got a big dilemma....I'm in a group of 6 witht he following classes filled: Healer, Blaster mage (evoker), rogue, paladin, bard.....my roles are 17, 16, 14, 13, 12, 12....I get a +2 to Wisdom due to some house rules and I have the option to spend some serious capital to play an Aasimar (+2 Wis, +2 Char) if I so choose...CORE books only. Medium-magic world. Heavy role-play, i.e. - intrigue, problem-solving, etc. No serious nerfing. No taking PrC's early b/c of achieving caster levels early...the DM will not allow it. What kind of build can I create to 1) be the best asset to the party????   2) take advantage of stats to kick some ass??????? Please help! So far I'm thinking either: Wiz/War Weaver....maybe top it off with a wizard Prcs Favored Soul/Wiz/Mystic Theurge Cleric/Wiz/Mystic Theurge Straight Cleric Straight druid (although this doesn't really appeal to me from a rolepplaying standpoint) Any and all suggestions/builds are welcome!
#2 Krusk Jul 13, 2011 8:43:48	Straight cleric. Pick domains that interest you, and go that way. I'd recomend not healing focused as the healer has that covered. Honestly it is the perfect opportunity to play a battle priest style cleric, since another front line dude could be helpful. Take war and (Knowledge, planning ect) domains and be all about tactical battles.
#3 rivlin1 Jul 13, 2011 17:22:50	Yeah, I think I'm leaning that way or straight druid. I could definitely use some recommendations on Druid builds if anybody's got some!
#4 Tempest_Stormwind Jul 13, 2011 18:02:59	brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.p... The general idea is Druid 20, max Wis and Con, take Natural Spell at 6, and the rest is entirely a function of what books are available and what sub-function you want to focus on (i.e. which of the other players' roles you want to step on). You really won't need much else - even if you "screw up" and make awful choices about your spells, your wild shape forms, or your animal companions... those are all freely changeable. The wild shape forms take all of a few actions to change, the spells take a day, and the companion takes some variable amount of time to change. (It's not like a fighter where if you make the wrong feat choices, you'd best hope for a Retraining opportunity or a Psychic Reformation.)
#5 dmverdandi Jul 14, 2011 4:24:48	Honestly, I would go cleric rather than druid. Many think of the cleric as: A. The resident healbot B. Crazy church knight However, within the cleric lies much freedom. That freedom is the "phil (philosophical cleric)".As far as greyhawk goes, most clerics are theists. Religious folk. Their wisdom scores manifests itself as faith.The feeling, or belief in their deity, which is so strong that they are granted grace. That grace is the cleric spell list, turn/rebuke, and sometimes their aura, but there is a variant of the cleric that has a power much more awesome. It is assumed that a cleric is a theist, but the game allows at the first level, for the cleric to instead follow an idealogical path that grants them power. This is basically the "phil". Now, phil is a philosopher, a lover of wisdom. He doesn't have to be smart or charismatic to work magic, but he is something that may be stronger than that. He is intuitive. FAR more so than a sorcerer or wizard. The magic phil uses is the magic of ideas. Wizards use the magic of sciences, and sorcerers use the magic of art, but Ideas? those lie in the cleric's power. You said you were going either the route of the druid or the cleric. Let me tell you why the druid is not the best idea. Thematically, the druid has one thing to draw inspiration and power from. Nature. When it wakes up, when it sleeps, nature. It immersses itself in nature and for that, is granted power. The difference between the cleric and the druid is a deity usually grants the cleric graces, but the druid gets all of his from becoming nature's agent. But that applies only for the theist cleric. The philosophical cleric can be just as emmersed in nature as the druid. A Phil cleric who takes animal and plant domains is someone who is so bound to the idea of flaura and fauna that he too gets powers from it. That bond is as powerful as nine levels of spells. It is DEEP, but the cleric doesn't get things like wild shape, or trackless step. Why? Because it is FREE to pick those things. A druid is bound by it's education as such to limit himself thematically. He must always have biology on his mind. A cleric on the other hand can ascribe himself to any three schools of thought that he wants. And domains number in the 40s.  Even better is a neutral philosophic cleric. They have the freedom to choose the magic of alignments that they wish. Good, Evil, Law, Chaos... These are but ideas that change and shift depending on the situation. A true philosopher loves all wisdom, no matter where it comes from, thus remains neutral. That neutrality doesn't mean that they are indecisive, or afraid of idealism. It means that they accept all behavior in a pragmatic sense. You have to do what you have to do. Sometimes that means adapting to scary situations. A druid cannot do such a thing. They cannot exist without the concept of nature, but a cleric simply needs concepts. It is the concepts that power them, and make them powerful. A cleric of war could be a mercenary, militia member, soldier, or anything else. The difference between this individual and a fighter is the cleric is so moved by the idea of combat and the spirit of battle that he becomes it. The subject begins to become objective. That cleric isn't just a guy who knows fancy weapon tricks. War has become apart of him so much that he begins to infringe on the "outsider" status. That cleric is sanctified in idea of battle, and even if he is not the strongest warrior, it has become apart of his soul. A cleric of the ocean may be a fisherman, swimmer, marine biologist, or beach goer, but love of the water has opened him up to recieve the water's love back. A philosophical cleric is one who has such a bond with an idea, a concept, that their person develops a magical connection with that "domain", and they don't recieve power from it, but inherit power by the identity of their souls being transfigured by it.  If the game you are playing in is heavy in roleplay, don't chop off your own foot and play a Druid. Sure they are strong and wildshape + nature spell nukes. But is all of that really worth trading your thematic freedom? Or Divine feats? I don't think so. "The Philosopher" has even more options. Alternate class features. The two best are Cloistered Cleric, and Alternate Domain Casting. Cloistered cleric is for if you want to become more of an emperical philosopher. Someone who introspectively focuses on philosophy, the love of wisdom, and the subject of thinking about ideas and ideals. Nets you skillz, lore, and the knowledge domain. Costs you BAB and Armor. For a cloistered cleric, becoming more of a "caster" might be in order. Staying back and defensively attacking long range is a good idea. Divine power can easily rectify that if you really want to beat people up though. The best feats for a cloistered cleric (outside of the mandatory DMM:persist combo) Extra turning, Divine feats, metamagic, zen archery. Alternative domain casting does something completely different. This keeps your cleric strong and fit, but changes his spontaneous casting to a domain that he already has. No more healbot. No more terrible spontaneous inflict. Now you can choose what domain best embodies you, and no matter what , cast them so long as you have the slots for it. Want to be a summoner? ADC: Summon domain. Now you can put every summoner before you to shame. Want to be a strategist? ADC:Planning domain Fighter? ADC:war domain Wizard? ADC:magic/spell/rune domain. Thief? ADC:Trickery domain  Overambitious Grocery bagger? ADC:Commerce The philosopher has the power to be ANYTHING he wants to be. And he lives his ideals every day.  The Druid has the power to be any animal he wants to be.  For an active cleric, 1.Dmm: Persist combo (Extend spell, persist spell, DMM:persist With a flaw. Two flaws if aasimar.)    3. Intuitive attack 6. Smiting spell  9.Divine metamagic power The rest are yours to choose from. To spellcasters, feats are like candy. You can live without them, but they make life a little sweeter. Also, use the spontaneous domain spell if you want to switch between the two ideals that define you. In your campaign, getting the knowledge domain through "extra domain feat", may be a good idea... With all the intrigue and plot, it never hurts to have all knowledge skills as class skills. A civilized person needs to be in the know. Be the best you can be. Be a philosophical (neutral) cleric, and don't live by faith or devotion to the world, but by harmony and identification with your own soul. It's absolutely divine.
#6 New-Shadow Jul 14, 2011 19:20:44	Uh...correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Extra Domain an Epic feat?  Was it printed somewhere else as a pre-Epic feat?  Or are you using a houserule to use E.D. as a pre-Epic feat?
#7 dmverdandi Jul 14, 2011 23:59:01	Uh...correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Extra Domain an Epic feat?  Was it printed somewhere else as a pre-Epic feat?  Or are you using a houserule to use E.D. as a pre-Epic feat? In complete divine, it requires 9 level casting, so it might as well be. An alternative is using a class to score some. Cleric 20 is fine for keeping BAB, but there are other options. Or creating a philosophy rather than a deity. That way it can have more than the two that you are alotted, and you can use spontaneous domain as a spell.