Forum leads do not have any moderation powers whatsoever. They do, however, have a direct voice to the WotC Community Management team. They are here to help represent your community. If you have any feedback or suggestions you'd like to see passed along, let them know!
Forum Lead Mission statement;
Forum leads work as advocates for the community, providing WotC with suggestions and ideas regarding their community, while also helping to provide guidance and help to all forum members, new and old.
If you want to know more about the Forum Lead program, or if you have any questions or concerns, please visit the VCL Open Discussion here and let us know.
The lead for this forum is: Autumn_serene
WizO's have been completely absorbed by Customer Service which means the role has no real community interaction anymore, can no longer decide what is on or off topic for a forum, and does not get involved in community building projects.
I think this board is the reason I've been on the forums for over 6 years now and the thought of giving up that involvement was... sad.
So! I volunteered for the Forum Lead position here!
What this means for Char Op is that I'd like to stay involved and help facilitate the amazing talent that is represented on this board.
Stickies are precious on this board, and I expect this message to get absorbed into another sticky eventually, but for the time being, let's talk about projects we could implement on this board.
My ideas:
1) I'd like to get quite a few of you the acknowledgment title of "Scribe" for compiling guides- but I'm just waiting to find out what Community Management is doing with Scribes before I start nominating folks.
2) The News of the Week program I'd love to see revamped so it's manageable. Ideas?
3) I think we need a "New? Start here!" type of thread to make this board more accessible for newcomers. I think a lot of the work is done-- it could include posting guidelines (written already) and links to handbooks and... ? What if we had a welcoming committee that could answer questions through PM if needed? Dumb?
4) I think the forum is lacking a compilation of playable builds. Handbooks have some yes, but they are more just the skeleton of a build-- I would love to see a (huge) resource of fully detailed characters so someone could grab one and start playing or a DM could have a ready-made NPC.
5) 4E. This community is where it is at. What can we start doing already in preparation?
5) 4E. This community is where it is at. What can we start doing already in preparation?
Besides wild-ass speculation, you mean?
WizO's have been completely absorbed by Customer Service which means the role has no real community interaction anymore, can no longer decide what is on or off topic for a forum, and does not get involved in community building projects.
I think this board is the reason I've been on the forums for over 6 years now and the thought of giving up that involvement was... sad.
So! I volunteered for the Forum Lead position here!
Honestly? Better you than anyone else except POSSIBLY Surreal. Still rather have you.
1) I'd like to get quite a few of you the acknowledgment title of "Scribe" for compiling guides- but I'm just waiting to find out what Community Management is doing with Scribes before I start nominating folks.
Is Dictuum_Mortum one yet? Heck, is SURREAL one yet?
2) The News of the Week program I'd love to see revamped so it's manageable. Ideas?
I think there needs to be some kind of incentive for people to do it. The #1 problem last time was the lack of participation.
3) I think we need a "New? Start here!" type of thread to make this board more accessible for newcomers. I think a lot of the work is done-- it could include posting guidelines (written already) and links to handbooks and... ? What if we had a welcoming committee that could answer questions through PM if needed? Dumb?
Easy. Sticky the SurrealDex, stick Ask a Simple Question, write the Guidelines into the NEw? Start Here! thread and sticky that, and sticky the two News threads. (Current news and planning.) That's five threads that cover pretty much everything.
4) I think the forum is lacking a compilation of playable builds. Handbooks have some yes, but they are more just the skeleton of a build-- I would love to see a (huge) resource of fully detailed characters so someone could grab one and start playing or a DM could have a ready-made NPC.
Yes yes yes yes YES. We have some old threads like that, but nobody's ever bothered to consolidate them.
5) 4E. This community is where it is at. What can we start doing already in preparation?
Until we get more crunch, not much.
Also, +1 for Dictum Mortuum and Surreal to be scribes.
---
Also, I'd like to see someone find a way to keep the flaming of classes to a minimum. It's one thing for someone to point out a better way to optimize a character concept, but it's a completely different thing to put someone down for wanting to optimize a certain class. Hopefully we'll be able to make the community grow and prosper, helping our peers as we ought to be doing rather than just trying to make ourselves seem superior.
Besides wild-ass speculation, you mean?
You crack me up with your overwhelming bluntness.
Sticky 1) "New? Start here!" thread. Includes the Posting Guidelines as well as important links.
Sticky 2) "Forum News" thread. Includes news of the week as well as competition announcements and other stuff of that sort.
If possible, lumping the "Ask a simple question" thread in with the "New? Start here!" thread should be done. It would really act the way you'd expect a forum to, anyway, with people posting CO or Forum Rules questions in reply to the compilation of information given in the first post of the thread.
This sort of transition would probably work best if done at the same time as the release of the 4e core books. I also don't think CO will be able to do much with 4e until that time as well, even if previews and excerpts are released in advance.
As for ready-made characters for player use, all that really breaks down into 3 categories: NPC's (DM controlled creatures that interact with the party), DMPC's (DM controlled creatures that become part of the party), and PC's (Player controlled characters).
Anyway, my biggest concern is going to be the widespread obsolesence of information when 4e comes out. How is the forum itself going to transition from 3.5e to 4e? Perhaps 3.5e will get lumped in with the Non-D&D CO Forum while this forum is cleaned up and made 100% 4e?
Can there be multiple forum leads? I think that we have many forum regulars that can fill the role, just off the top of my head:
- PhoenixInferno
- carnivore
- Balthanon
- Surreal
- Khan the Destroyer
- Tleilaxu_Ghola
- RadicalTaoist
- Tempest Stormwind
- prototype00
- PhaedrusXY
- tsuyoshikentsu
- LogicNinja
- Elephant Jack
- DisposableHero_
- Funny Slaughter
- ninjarabbit
- X-Codes
and many more that i probably forget.
The current stickied thread gets ignored mostly because it doesn't read as an introduction. The posting guidelines get ignored for two reasons. First, people don't read them because they don't know they exist until someone tells them, politely or otherwise. Second, some of them just want a build-'n-a-box. Having never been here, they have no idea how boring and sometimes downright silly their requests may seem. Most powerful character? Pun-pun. Yawn. Best Core class? Druid. Yawn more. Someone new to the board has no idea how many times those things have been rehashed.
The solution for that is a new stickied guide that actually reads as an introduction to the board, including the known and unspoken rules along with an updated set of organized links.
As for 4E, my understanding is that the two preview books are mostly fluff and pictures, which doesn't do CO much good. People will just have to wait until someone gets their hands on a copy early and leaks it. Listening to the Podcasts and reading the previews gives us unreliable tid-bits at best. I suppose once we got a hard set of class/race names people could volunteer to write preliminary guides on them so we have something to work from once the game finally releases. These guides could then be incorporated into a new stickied index and added to as people have more ideas and WotC begins the inevitable process of spewing out splats again.
+1 on DM and Surreal being made scribes.
Anyway, my biggest concern is going to be the widespread obsolesence of information when 4e comes out. How is the forum itself going to transition from 3.5e to 4e? Perhaps 3.5e will get lumped in with the Non-D&D CO Forum while this forum is cleaned up and made 100% 4e?
i think that the best solution is a new optimization forum for 4e. This forum has history and it would be bad to be thrown away
i think that the best solution is a new optimization forum for 4e. This forum has history and it would be bad to be thrown away
Especially for the vast number of us that will probably be playing a mix of 3.5 and 4.0 even after the release. 3.5 should become its own subforum, sort of like how Theoretical Optimization was spun out.
Or, even better! We could have a central Optimization forum, where we discuss things like "roll-play vs. role play", "When is too much optimization TOO much?", and so forth. Then, we break it down into a 3.5 Forum and a 4.0 Forum, maybe each with their own Theoretical sections. All of that assumes, of course, that this is even possible with the bb software being used.
Or, even better! We could have a central Optimization forum, where we discuss things like "roll-play vs. role play", "When is too much optimization TOO much?", and so forth. Then, we break it down into a 3.5 Forum and a 4.0 Forum, maybe each with their own Theoretical sections. All of that assumes, of course, that this is even possible with the bb software being used.
This would probably entail a lot of sub-foruming, and the base Character Optimization forum would get hardly any traffic at all (except a bunch of threads that get moved out to other forums).
Something like this could probably be done... The new 4e CO forum is put up, and then the 3.5 forum, TO forum, and Non-D&D forum would all be made into sub-forums of the 4e CO forum.
As for the "multiple forum leads" thing, I'm thinking thats what Scribes will be for.
Glad you stayed in charge autumn. I was going to apply for the VCL of the CO board, but then I saw your name and thought why fix something not broken?
I think 4E needs it's own forum, at least until 4E becomes OGL. I'm not going to switch over any time soon.
Thanks for staying on Autumn! Hands down, you're one of my favorite mods. Too bad Cust Serv has consumed the WizO positions.
There is a limit of 3 people for the Forum Leads per board-- my thought is that I will facilitate, but honestly, there are at least 15 regulars here that will actually lead the board and things done, so I say we have our own subset of CO Coordinators that do things like the News of the Week/Month, compile handbooks, answer questions in the simple question/simple answer board and do the things that you guys are great at.
I think in terms of the board, we can make recommendations and it won't hurt to ask CM for anything we come up. Part of the CM program is that they want things lead by the community, and now that we're all just folk, I can say that I think this community of regulars on this board can really make a difference and show what a community committed can really do.
For 4e- let's just come up with what we'd like to present as a solution and see where it goes. I don't see how it could possibly be integrated in this board. My thought is that we'll need a 4e Optimization Board and then we can use this board (or maybe even the non-D&D board with a name change) for the homebrew combos of the two systems.
Especially for the vast number of us that will probably be playing a mix of 3.5 and 4.0 even after the release. 3.5 should become its own subforum, sort of like how Theoretical Optimization was spun out.
Or, even better! We could have a central Optimization forum, where we discuss things like "roll-play vs. role play", "When is too much optimization TOO much?", and so forth. Then, we break it down into a 3.5 Forum and a 4.0 Forum, maybe each with their own Theoretical sections. All of that assumes, of course, that this is even possible with the bb software being used.
Heh, I do a gaming podcast and we have segments on min/maxing and my cohost described role vs roll as "people who spell at you".
I like the idea of having a general optimization board though and then a 3.5 and 4e build optimization board. We have quite a bit of time to decide though on what we want to ask for.
As for the stickies, we could consolidate a lot of that into fewer threads. I don't like having a bunch of stickies at the top of a forum page, personally.
Sticky 1) "New? Start here!" thread. Includes the Posting Guidelines as well as important links.
Sticky 2) "Forum News" thread. Includes news of the week as well as competition announcements and other stuff of that sort.
If possible, lumping the "Ask a simple question" thread in with the "New? Start here!" thread should be done. It would really act the way you'd expect a forum to, anyway, with people posting CO or Forum Rules questions in reply to the compilation of information given in the first post of the thread.
This sort of transition would probably work best if done at the same time as the release of the 4e core books. I also don't think CO will be able to do much with 4e until that time as well, even if previews and excerpts are released in advance.
As for ready-made characters for player use, all that really breaks down into 3 categories: NPC's (DM controlled creatures that interact with the party), DMPC's (DM controlled creatures that become part of the party), and PC's (Player controlled characters).
Anyway, my biggest concern is going to be the widespread obsolesence of information when 4e comes out. How is the forum itself going to transition from 3.5e to 4e? Perhaps 3.5e will get lumped in with the Non-D&D CO Forum while this forum is cleaned up and made 100% 4e?
I like this- I don't know how the Simple Question thread though could be lumped in without just linking to it-- the thread is way too big and too fast to be combined imo. But I think a solution lies somewhere in that thought.
As for 4e- we have time. I think we should just start thinking about what we could do as a community to work with 4e material. I could totally see us being the ones who disseminate the 4e information that is posted and made predictions, etc. Just a thought.
Heh, I do a gaming podcast and we have segments on min/maxing and my cohost described role vs roll as "people who spell at you".
I like the idea of having a general optimization board though and then a 3.5 and 4e build optimization board. We have quite a bit of time to decide though on what we want to ask for.
Off-topic: podcast? Where, if you don't mind?
Little worried about the general optimization board: discussions on the nature of optimization are few and far between (Stormwind Fallacy, Practical Commandments of Optimization (Regular Commandments are 3.5 specific)). What else could we put there? What examples of threads do we have currently that would go there?
Off-topic: podcast? Where, if you don't mind?
Little worried about the general optimization board: discussions on the nature of optimization are few and far between (Stormwind Fallacy, Practical Commandments of Optimization (Regular Commandments are 3.5 specific)). What else could we put there? What examples of threads do we have currently that would go there?
I don't want to pimp it until it's really up and going (8 episodes or so), but stay tuned ;)
For organization-- I know I've been a proponent of splitting because of the vast amount of threads and posts on this board, but we should only ask for things that the majority of us want, so I want to make sure my personal feelings don't overwhelm the majority.
For example-- looking at the front page right now, the threads that are listed and the categories I would sort them into are:
Specific Character Builds/Questions
- Need a good Body Guard
- Beguiler/swashbuckler
- Looking for Damage and AC gear insight (Monk)
- Leaping Shock Pouncer
- Pimp my Dread Necromancer cohort
- Best ToB class into Knight of the Weave (and beyond)?
- Lord of War: Tall order for a Mega-Build for a Mega-Campaign
Handbook/ Build Compilations
- Examples of overpowered casters
- Truenamer Optimization
- Warmages Blow Goats For Pocket Change; OR, Why You Should Play A Sorcerer Instead
- Enlightened Fist Optimization
- Non-Animation Necromancy: Spell Selection, Feat Advice, and Tactics
- Compilation of Low Level builds
- Epic Character Optimisation
- Improving spellcasting in an abandoned class
Rule Breaking/ Optimization
- ask a simple question, get a simple answer
- use per day = stat mod infinite "trick"?
- Q3303: Does the Displacement spell allow you to sneak attack? (not a simple question)
- Activating a wand as a swift action?
- Bardic knowledge 60=?
- AC question
- Optimizing AC
Specific Combos
- Warlock+Monk=Enlightened Fist
Non D&D
- WoW Shadow Priest
Other
- THE CharOp Look at 4E-- WAS GenCon Announcement
When I think of CharOp, I think of a board that is specific builds and build compilations/handbooks. Just looking at the front page shows me that there are a lot of other items that come up. But I don't know if they could be generic to the system 3.5 or 4, but I personally think, for examples, combos and rule breaks should be in theoretical, but that's just my thought.
this is an important thread and has only 100ish clicks :/
Only on CharOp would 100 clicks in a couple of hours be a bad thing ;)
To give a comparison-- this thread has almost as many views as the same thread on the RPG board business board which has almost 44 hours on this one.
I posted this the same time as the Mature Board's thread and am happy that one has 30 views.
Just goes to show how fast things move here.
For 4e- let's just come up with what we'd like to present as a solution and see where it goes. I don't see how it could possibly be integrated in this board. My thought is that we'll need a 4e Optimization Board and then we can use this board (or maybe even the non-D&D board with a name change) for the homebrew combos of the two systems.
Wait, what? You want to see us take a stab at developing what we think 4e should look like and release it before WotC does?
That sounds...interesting.
Wait, what? You want to see us take a stab at developing what we think 4e should look like and release it before WotC does?
That sounds...interesting.
I would like to make it abundantly clear that one of the best moves WotC made for securing trust about good playtesting was the CO Focus Group.
I've been spending a time away from CO recently, mostly because of the lack of new information (I've been learning the ins and outs of Saga; if nothing else, it's mostly a transferrable skill if 4e works anything like it). In my time away, I've been in several other forums, mostly D&D and Star Wars related, and my close friends have been visiting 4e. One thing I hear brought up again and again is exactly this: That Wizards contacted the CO boards for feedback on a book, and if this could be continued into later books, those books would be all the better for it.
I don't know how it worked out from a business perspective (I know what was said in feedback, but that's informal), and the Rules Compendium wasn't the best book to do this with (as for it to truly shine, the CO boards would need mechanics rather than [/i]rules[/i]), so I could be horribly wrong on all of this - but in my personal observation, many people are glad it happened, and several particularly vocal complaints have been silenced by that effect.
I don't know how much swing we can have, but as near as I can tell, it's basically a win-win-win scenario: WotC gets free, experienced, volunteer rules gurus, the CO boards get a flux of new crunch and the satisfaction of a job well done (the most this would cost is the ink for a playtest credit), and the average gamer gets to say things like "this material couldn't even be broken by the best this game had to offer; I'm in for a balanced game" (which in turn shuts down balance complaints).
As for forum organization, "Character Optimization" could probably be split thus:
Optimization 101: A moderated forum akin to Regdar's; New Topic limited to scribes. Generally reserved for handbooks (either use a generic WikiAccount (i.e. CO_News, Druid_Handbook, Cleric_Handbook, etc) or have the occasional handbook transferral), but this is also where optimization FAQs and articles would go. Just as Character Development has GENERAL guides for writing realistic characters, I can see CO101 having threads dedicated to teaching others *how* to optimize. Spotting basic patterns, looking for synergies, and similar, plus a small introduction on averages and statistics for comparison. (I just had this crazy image of an Optimization Worksheet: "Here is Encounter X, with Pathetic Heroes ABCD. Devise a solution using only good tactics. Now rebuild Hero C and solve the encounter without anyone getting Bloodied.") I don't mind writing up a (final?) Stormwind Fallacy article for this (emphasizing that it isn't a defense for poor RP), plus the famous Ten Commandments of Practical Optimization. (The original Ten were 3.5 specific.) Finally, since this forum is basically a big honkin' READ FIRST for newbies, it should also have the Posting Guidelines displayed PROMINENTLY (as in first sticky), along with the CO Library. (They could even appear in the same thread!)
Character Building: This is related to builds -- both presenting builds and getting help with specific characters. If it's a character, and it's going to see play or proposed to see play, it goes here. (Most CO threads already fit here.)
Rules Trickery: Combos, experiments, and whatnot. The spiritual successor of Theoretical Optimization, but with a practical focus. So long as it has "Rules" in the name, people with non-character-related questions (i.e. "What's the highest possible saving throw?" as opposed to "How do I build a strong lightning-based mage?") will naturally gravitate to it.
Theoretical Optimization: Explicitly just testing the game's limits; things posted here are NOT intended for gameplay. Not much needs to be changed, really; the name's clear and the board has a reputation. Due to reduced traffic in general (more people care about the game than the rules), doesn't need subforums.
(The vast majority of existing CO is in Rules Trickery or similar, with a substantial representation in Character Building. There are plenty of handbooks and info threads, but they are literally a breed apart from the rest of the threads here, and Theoretical's already its own forum. Just as the distinction between CO/TO was "Is it going to see use in a game or are we just testing something?", the distinction between CB/RT is "Does it directly relate to a *character* or build, or does it exist in a vacuum?".)
Until we see how big of a split in players we can expect between 4e and 3.5, it's pointless to ask how to organize between editions. Personally, I'd either use subforums or ID tags.
The only change on top of that is that I'd REALLY, REALLY, REALLY appeal for the posting guidelines to be presented somehow before entry. I have NO idea how to make it mandatory, though.
The CO Boards Newsletter is a really good idea as well; I do have to apologize for my part in its downfall earlier (combination of DRAMATICALLY increased workload from the summer, diminishing submissions, and the 4e Crunch Drought, I'd say). Once we get a steady flux of new crunch, I can imagine that REALLY taking off. (I'll do more than "imagine", though: I'd STILL like to help, although I can't promise as much time as I had back during the summer. Turns out being a full-time research assistant and TA is a lot harder when you've got classes to juggle.)
The point is, though, what really killed it wasn't so much lack of time on my part, or lack of motivation on the community's part. It was twofold:
1) The disorganization of submission (often leading to people covering for other people, or info being sent to one guy but not the others, and so on). On a related note, "CO_News" couldn't sticky and unsticky the news threads as each month went by. (Be honest, everyone who knew the password to that was a trusted CO regular; we're not about to deface our own board. Besides, it's almost trivially easy to create a usergroup with thread management capability (move, sticky, unsticky, merge, delete and so on) within one forum and without any other powers.) and
2) The 4e announcement and the resulting Crunch Drought. No news means no newsletter, plain and simple.
Had CO News been introduced a year earlier, we would have had plenty of enthusiasm and a steady stream of products to review. This would have, out of necessity, forced us to get a better organization system.
The best thing the CO News program needs is 4e. But when it hits, we can be ready.
So, that would lead to something like this...
Character Optimization* (serves the same purpose as T_S's Character Building forum idea)
|-Character Optimization: Early Edition (3.5e and earlier)
|-Character Optimization: Non-D&D (Star Wars, d20 Modern, etc)
|-Rules Trickery*
|-Theoretical Optimization
*Forum has a prominently displayed link to the Optimization 101 Wiki.
I think that Character Optimization should only have one main forum, with the rest being sub-forums. Putting up a bunch of forums will crowd a bit, just like putting up a bunch of stickies crowds a bit. Also, this gives new people a definitive starting point for working within our community.
As for my idea to combine the "Ask a Simple Question" and "New? Start Here!" threads, I'm thinking that a new thread in the new 4e CO forum would serve both purposes once that is released. Basically, you have the posting guidelines, CO101 link, and then a note at the end of the first post asking for short questions to be posted in reply, and then other CO goers would go about and answer them in the same sticky (still entitled "New? Start Here!").
Also, I think Rules Interpretation is a more respectable name than Rules Trickery.
Since cleaning house has been put on the table, I'll go ahead and put out the idea that the posting guidelines should be scrapped. Regulars often don't follow them. As a visitor, not following them gets you flamed and following them sometimes leads to being ignored rather than helped. Basically, I think that as a group that prides itself on knowledge and inquiry it is immoral to raise impediments for new seekers of knowledge. If this comment draws things too far afield, we can start a new thread for this discussion.
True, but 'hay guyz i need new pro or imba char' doesn't give us enough information to actually help the fellow. Those guidelines weren't only put up for the aid of the new optimizer; they were put up there because we're broken records when we see things like this.
The really sad part? That's *almost* verbatim from a request I recall responding to. (I can't find it in the archive, though.)
Also, I think Rules Interpretation is a more respectable name than Rules Trickery.
A far finer name; I support it. (Really, my suggested names were placeholders.)
This thread shows how another part of the forums got an addition board, so it looks like it's something that is definitely feasible and quick.
Snap. That's fast. Maybe one month before 4E hits the fan we ask for Tempest's proposed split?
Some time ago, I wanted to make an E-book with the the handbooks of this forum... some sort of compendium, with a handbook for every class.
I didn't made it, because they were alive. Every week, new ideas was added to every one. Also, we use to discuss lot of no-OGL content, and I don't wanted to make an "Possible" illegal book.
But, now, the 3.5 edition is dying. No new content will be added. And finally, all the threads will be archived.
Why not make them now? If WotC agrees, the books can be distributed freely, or WotC can publish them, much like the "Player's Options handbooks" published at the end of 2nd edition (personally, I would buy them).
We must recognize it: even with the "bug" inside latest books, we probably aren't going to buy much new books until the release of 4th edition.
It's only a suggestion
Also- a question was asked about pulling threads out of the archive. I know it can be done but I'm not sure who would do it now. I will ask.
I'd be delighted if there could be some sort of .pdf or something of all of the 3E handbooks/tricks. It would be a great way to wrap up the CharOp's 3E contribution.
I hope if there is a new 4E forum, and this forum doesn't become it (or some such thing) there will be an easy way to find the new forum to migrate over to it.
It's nice as a Hall of Fame / place for the followers of Pazuzu to plot and stew.
Otherwise, the mix of personalities over here on CO is good.
Caelic vs. Tsuyo anybody ?!?!?
I say wait for 4.0 to hit, and have it be a separate link at the top.
Merge Theoretical Optimization back in to Character Optimization.
When 4E comes out, have two forums -- 3E/3.5E Character Optimization, and 4E Character Optimization.
The last thing I want to do is search multiple forums. If I ever switch to 4E (doubtful for the foreseeable future), I can search the 4E CharOp board, and if I want 3E/3.5E info I can search that board. I don't see the need to further fragment as long as the search tool works.
I'd also like to propose that threads are not archived -- or at least not for a very long time. Too many good threads have gotten lost into the abyss of the archives. Storage is extremely cheap these days (and getting cheaper), and processor power is every increasing, so server capability should be able to handle it.
I think just about everyone here at some point or another gets pointed to Surreal's Handy Links for CO, which is already Stickied, but everyone seems to pass by it. Also, Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer has been begging for Stickiness for a long time now.
Also, +1 for Dictum Mortuum and Surreal to be scribes.
+1 as well.
As far as how the forum should deal with 4e ... I think that will be easier to answer once it comes out.
Best,
David
The last thing I want to do is search multiple forums. If I ever switch to 4E (doubtful for the foreseeable future), I can search the 4E CharOp board, and if I want 3E/3.5E info I can search that board. I don't see the need to further fragment as long as the search tool works.
With my proposal, you could simply click the main Character Optimization forum and the "Also Search Child Forums" check box to search all of Character Optimization. Whats more, TO should not get lopped in with CO as they serve wholly different purposes.
As for tags on threads, thats simply infeasible. People here already don't follow the posting guidelines. Whats more, I'm against increasing the complexity of the basic forum interface. Simply making one more child forum for everything to be put close enough in it's place is far more practical.
I'd prefer to keep it simple.
Merge Theoretical Optimization back in to Character Optimization.
When 4E comes out, have two forums -- 3E/3.5E Character Optimization, and 4E Character Optimization.
The last thing I want to do is search multiple forums. If I ever switch to 4E (doubtful for the foreseeable future), I can search the 4E CharOp board, and if I want 3E/3.5E info I can search that board. I don't see the need to further fragment as long as the search tool works.
I'd also like to propose that threads are not archived -- or at least not for a very long time. Too many good threads have gotten lost into the abyss of the archives. Storage is extremely cheap these days (and getting cheaper), and processor power is every increasing, so server capability should be able to handle it.
As said elsewhere: TO is very, very different to CO. We made the split originally for a very good reason: there was starting to be too much bleed-over between the two subjects.
Wizards Community > d20 Design > d20 Design Enhancement > Character Optimization
We would see
d20 design
- something
- d20 design enhancement
- Character Optimization
- Character Optimization: non-D&D
- Theoretical Optimization
- Character Development
- something
- something
- something
That way it's actually easier to navigate within subforums. When we first split off into the theoretical forum, I couldn't even find it.
stuff
While I like the idea, I think this would have to be taken up with someone else. This is much more of a technical question than an organizational one, and what really needs to happen here is organization (which sucks, because WotC isn't leaking enough info for us to organize properly).
On a tangential note, would it be possible to show the foum level trees at the top of the forum? So instead of seeing...
We would see
That way it's actually easier to navigate within subforums. When we first split off into the theoretical forum, I couldn't even find it.
You can use the Forum Jump pull-down menu on the bottom of the screen.
What about possibility to keep the same forum for both 3ed and 4th edition? They could use different colors or different shades for threads for different editions. For example, we could use blue (as it is now) for CO 3ed edition and red for 4th edition. When creating a new thread you could have a combo-box to select the edition to which the thread applies to and the thread would be of the appropriate color. I know it is not supported yet but it shouldn't be too hard to implement and it could work across all the forums. It would keep community together.
I don't think it's a good idea. That will add another point to PI's posting guidelines.
I don't think it's a good idea. That will add another point to PI's posting guidelines.
No, that's a great idea! Its another opportunity to smite! (Kidding).
Yeah, we probably want a separate 4th ed forum, at the very least.
(Kidding).
awww.
- something
- d20 design enhancement
- 3E and 3.5E Optimization
- Character Optimization
- Theoretical Optimization
- 4E Optimization
- Character Optimization
- Theoretical Optimization
- Character Optimization: non-D&D
- Character Development
- something
- something
If we combine that with Surreal's idea, it wouldn't be too hard to navigate. (By the way, I agree with Surreal's idea. I actually navigate this board now by memorizing forum addresses and manually calling the PHP myself.)
I have been preparing an update for my metamagic handbook, but it got archived. Should I just repost, or is there a way to edit the archive, or should I contact someone?
The thread:
http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-754374
Why don't we simply subcatagorize forums Charop and Theop into one category, with new 4E forums in another? Like this:
If we combine that with Surreal's idea, it wouldn't be too hard to navigate. (By the way, I agree with Surreal's idea. I actually navigate this board now by memorizing forum addresses and manually calling the PHP myself.)
Let's just say I'm glad I'm not the only one.
I mention that because I see two major points of view so far, the regular users posting on their own habits, and then some push by a few people to make the CharOp boards more open to everyone. I think a target audience needs to be chosen before a unified plan can really be implimented.
I hereby tender my resignation as a "regular" or active participant in any CO board politics. This used to be a massive time sink for me, and I cannot describe the immeasurable relief it has been to finally rid myself it "CO board addiction". I'm not saying I won't post anymore, but I certainly don't plan on initiating any massive projects soon. This all depends on how easily 4e captivates my attention, of course. So I may be eating these words in the future, but for now I think I've had my fill of 3.5e intellectual masturbation.
Good luck to the rest of you all.
P.S.: I swear I'll clean up the Ghola character one of these days, when I'm really, really bored. Until then, you may consider it one of my many scrapped projects. The ascension plot just never got of the ground. The mechanic is, otherwise, sound I think.
Somewhat off topic, but I didn't know where else to put this (and apparently, "Is Caelic on vacation?" is not the right thread for this), but did anyone else's PM limit go past 30?
[thread=975543]I just noticed the same thing.[/thread]
Somewhat off topic, but I didn't know where else to put this (and apparently, "Is Caelic on vacation?" is not the right thread for this), but did anyone else's PM limit go past 30?
Mine currently says it allows 200... I was wondering about that a bit myself. I thought it might be a combination of the UnCon Prizewinner piece and DMing on the Real Adventure boards. (And possibly the fact that I participate in the VCL forums.)
Mine currently says it allows 200... I was wondering about that a bit myself. I thought it might be a combination of the UnCon Prizewinner piece and DMing on the Real Adventure boards. (And possibly the fact that I participate in the VCL forums.)
200? Damn.
Mine currently says it allows 200... I was wondering about that a bit myself. I thought it might be a combination of the UnCon Prizewinner piece and DMing on the Real Adventure boards. (And possibly the fact that I participate in the VCL forums.)
So UnCon Prizewinner means nothing to these people, it seems
Somewhat off topic, but I didn't know where else to put this (and apparently, "Is Caelic on vacation?" is not the right thread for this), but did anyone else's PM limit go past 30?
You have 30 messages stored, of a total 75 allowed.
Damn. Gotta start filling it up again; it'll only be a matter of time before the "hay plz help with my class kthxbai" unsolicited PMs start flooding in.
Word on the street was that it was related to the Avalon Hill forum move, though.
[EDIT:Archerpwr's link demonstrates just this.]
Damn. Gotta start filling it up again; it'll only be a matter of time before the "hay plz help with my class kthxbai" unsolicited PMs start flooding in.
Ditto.
So UnCon Prizewinner means nothing to these people, it seems
It did seem a bit excessive.
In other news, if anyone needs his PM box filled with spam, just holler.
Some time ago, I wanted to make an E-book with the the handbooks of this forum... some sort of compendium, with a handbook for every class.
I didn't made it, because they were alive. Every week, new ideas was added to every one. Also, we use to discuss lot of no-OGL content, and I don't wanted to make an "Possible" illegal book.
Geeze, it's worth asking at least. Even if they are just something we make and turn into a pdf with just the threads it could be a great resource.
Also- a question was asked about pulling threads out of the archive. I know it can be done but I'm not sure who would do it now. I will ask.
Any news about that?
I LOVE the idea of a nice, tidy, compiled 3.0/3.5 CO pdf. I have some ideas on how to organize such a document, but anything I might come up with would end up being close to the SurrealDex. Perhaps we should use it as a model.
I think what we need to start with is a thread just filled with links to everything that needs to be saved. IE, we copy the SurrealDex, then tack on more links to debate threads and stuff. Then we go through and analyze each link (maybe a panel?), add in some personal favorites, then go through and snap a pdf of every thread. Then we organize it into a honking big folder, tar-gz compress it, then put it up on some server somewhere.
I have some free time, so I could probably chip in to just spam the thread with links.
Any news about that?
I asked, but didn't hear anything official. I'll ask again.
and what about the forum lead thing? How is that going?
Some cool things have happened, so that's good. I'm definitely going to take direction from you all though, so throw out suggestions and I'll play off that.
Anyway, I don't think it was ever clarified. What are the purposes of scribes?
that interests me, too (that is, if i become one).
I really urge everyone to take a look atthisboard. It's where the boards are being planned and changes happening and its a chance to get in on the ground floor!
Here's what I mean:
You create an uber exorcism cleric with 3 prestige classes and you name it Ruler of Expulsion...well this makes it very difficult for people looking for specific class builds to find it.
I mean you look at list of builds and all you see is: Death Dealer, Sacred Priest,Iron Stalker and so on, all of this builds can vary from a fighter human to a kobold monk, thus making the job of compiling information a very difficult task.
Whereas if the build title stated Ruler of Expulsion-Cleric it would be easir to know wich section it belongs to...
I guess we should take the opportunity of the 4thEdition and start to organize builds this way...so it doesn't turn into a mess.
As well people who made builds could update them by putting the class name, the only problem is that some of them don't even hang around here anymore.
Issue #1) CharOp Organization with 4e
We've been discussing this, but I'd like to start getting a solid plan together that we can request.
Issue #2) CharOp extras Upcoming
We've had events in the past- anything everyone would like to do again? Contests, the News of the Week, etc? Anything new we could try?
What about a CharOp Reporter? We tried the News thread, which was awesome but did require quite a bit of time. What about trying something like that, but less involved and reporting just the biggest highlights but having just 1 or 2 people do it? Or a small group who rotated?
I keep coming back to the news because there are still regulars and staff who don't know the CharOp boards even exist, and having some sort of quickie report could be great marketing so to speak for the boards.
Issue #2 Idea:
What about a CharOp Reporter? We tried the News thread, which was awesome but did require quite a bit of time. What about trying something like that, but less involved and reporting just the biggest highlights but having just 1 or 2 people do it? Or a small group who rotated?
I keep coming back to the news because there are still regulars and staff who don't know the CharOp boards even exist, and having some sort of quickie report could be great marketing so to speak for the boards.
Does it actually need to be limited to one or two people? People have created shared accounts before, maybe the solution is to just have a thread where people can post news. To start, you (or someone selected here) could compile these news stories into the top post once a week. The thread itself would provide a reference to past articles, so there shouldn't be any need to keep an archive.
After someone has posted maybe five times and proven that they are interested and capable of providing valuable information for the community, you can hand out the password to the account so that they can directly update their own articles into the top post on whichever day is chosen for updates.
It would probably require some guidelines and rules to be established (no discussion in the news thread, must be an article rather than just links, password is controlled by Autumn, etc...), but it eliminates the major problem with creating a news publication-- the time it demands and dependence on a single person being available every week.
Also, it seems that the 4e books for 2008 are all planned out as well.
May:
H1 Keep on the Shadowfell
June:
Player's Handbook
Monster Manual
Dungeon Master's Guide
July:
H2 Thunderspire Labarynth
August:
H3 Pyramid of Shadows
Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide
September:
Tome of Treasures
FR1 Scepter Tower of Spellguard
Forgotten Realms Player's Guide
October:
Martial Power
P1 King of Trollhaunt Warrens
November:
Draconomicon 1- Chromatic Dragons
December:
Manual of the Planes
P2 Demon Queen's Enclave
Along with the H1 module, there are likely to be rules to guide the creation and leveling of characters from levels 1 through 3, if not a bit higher. One way or another I'll be able to figure it out since I'm going to be DMing the module for one of my current D&D groups so that we all get a chance to test out 4e for ourselves before deciding whether or not to move on.
Other releases of note are the Tome of Treasures, Forgotten Realms Player's Guide, Martial Power, and Manual of the Planes. The reamining items might include player-relevant material, but then again it might not.
P.S. I claim the Paladin Guide. *arm pump*
Although we tend to get the books a few weeks later over in Europe so someone might beat me to it.
If I see the crappy CArc Warlock in my shiny new PHB, heads are gonna roll.
More like warlock+elements of sorcerer. Heads may roll anyway.
Anybody know if the first PHB is going to be OGL?
More like warlock+elements of sorcerer. Heads may roll anyway.
Anybody know if the first PHB is going to be OGL?
4th edition is going to be OGL again-- but the license to use it is supposed to be an actual license this time for companies (i.e. you pay WotC 5,000 dollars and you're allowed to play in their sandbox.) Though that may have been for pre-release access to the material, actually. Regardless, if they are allowing companies access I imagine it is going to be online as well.
{ ... which thread ; "that" thread ; that's what I'm asking ; yeah, I answered you ; no you didn't ; yes I did ; (repeat) ... }