Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 nehemia86 Sep 02, 2009 5:48:16	Hi, I wanted to ask if anybody has suggestions for a Build for this PrC., which sets its Fokus on Tanking (high AC, good Saves, solid HP), Damage Out-Put is secondary.   System: 3.5 in the Forgotten Realms.   Character-Creation: with Point-by; 32 Points (like in Neverwinter Nights II) My idea: Str. 8 Dex 16 (+2) (Level 8, 12, 16, 20 -> 22) Kon 12 (-2) Int 14 Wis 12 Cha 15 (Level 4 -> 16)   Race: Should be an Elf, Sub-Race can be optimized, i thought of an Moonelf, because Dex. is the most important Stat.   Class: Fighter/Paladin was my first Idea, because of Divine Grace for the Saves, the Abilitiy to turn Undead and Smite Evil. So it would be: 2 Fighter (for the Prestique Feats)/5 Paladin (For Smite+Turn+Divine Grace and Special Mount ^^)/8 Champion of Corellon (For Corellon´s Wrath) until Level 15.   I don´t know how to advance afterwards, or if i have a better alternative for this build than paladin/fighter; the swashbuckler might be a good one, because of free Weapon Finesse + Insightful Strike.   Equipment: Chain Shirt, because of Max. Dex. + Heavy Shield, Elven thinblade or rapier as weapon, beause of Weapon Finesse.   Feats: My biggest Problem with this Build... You´ll need Dodge, Combat Expertise, Mounted Combat and Weapon Focus untill Level 8 and Weapon finesse seams also elementary untill then. Normally i´m playing a mage and so i´m not really sure of what talents are good for stacking AC or reducing damage, etc.   Thanks for your Help! Nehemia
#2 nehemia86 Sep 03, 2009 4:57:45	/push. ^^
#3 vasdenjas Sep 03, 2009 10:37:58	This isn't complete OP, I'm sure others here can break stuff quite well, this is just a build I put together that seems to work.  The only problem I sort of see with this is more of a fluff issue.  Corellon is a CG god, so typically his worshippers tend to be close (1 step).  Paladin must be (unless other rules are implemented) LG.  One could argue since Corellon is 'god of the Elves' all Elves regardless of alightment would revere him to some extent. Anyways.... Since you don't plan on going higher than 8 in CCL, you could put it off a bit.  This would help you out in feats and class features by doing the following. Fighter4/Swashbuckler4/Paladin4/CCL8 4 Fighter levels give you 3 feats 4 Swashbuckler levels gets you +Int to damage, and Weapon Finesse 4 Pally levels grant you immunity to fear and disease, Smite, Turn Undead, and Divine Grace.  If you take the non-spellcasting variant, you also get a bonus feat at 4th. This would give you 9 feats (+Weapon Finesse) prior to going CCL, after which youwould get 5 more. I would start with Str 14/Dex 15 (+2)/Con 12 (-2)/Int 14/Wis 10/Cha 14 This will allow you to benefit from your various class features, and qualify for some good feats. If you throw in at higher levels a Headband of Int +4, Gloves of Dex +4, and a Belt of Giant Str, wield your Elven Thinblade with two hands, and Power attack for 5, you can easily do 1d8+31 damage.  If you charge and have the Leap Attack feat, that's 1d8+36.  Add Improved Crit or Keen to the Thinblade, and you'll be doing double that quite often (range of 15-20).  Throw in the occasional Smite, plus a Divine feat or 2 to boost your damage or AC also. What have I missed?
#4 nehemia86 Sep 06, 2009 4:37:20	I was thinking of the Swashbuckler though, because of these two abilities.   I coulnd´t find the paladin variant you were reffering to, only the one in the Complete Warrior, which starts at Level 6 with Blessed Weapon, in the Player´s Handbook II you can leave out the Mount for a Smiting Charge at Level 5.   Fighter 4 means Weapon Spec. of course.   What about 3 Swash/4 Figther/ 5 Variant Paladin (no Spells)/8 Champion of Corellon? Or ist the exp. penalty a great pain?   Attributes as you proposed. ( I didn´t realize that the Str. Bonus stackes with the Dex. Bonus Feat of the CoCL)   Thanks for the first feedback.
#5 gorfnad_the_shiznit Sep 07, 2009 4:21:57	How about Crusader or Warblade 3/ Fighter 4/ Champion 5/ Eternal Blade 8 Feats: 1. Weapon Finesse 3. Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Elven Thinblade or Courtblade 4. Dodge 5. Combat Expertise 6. Mobility 7. Mounted Combat 8. Spring Attack 9. Weapon Focus: Elven Thinblade or Courtblade 11. Whirlwind Attack 12. Bounding Assult 15. Elusive Target 18. Rapid Blitz
#6 nehemia86 Sep 08, 2009 14:18:19	I don´t have the Tome of Battle and there for no access to Eternal Blade or Warblade.   I don´t know about the Crusader... he doesn´t have the Bonus to Saves through CHA Mod., what I would like to have.   The talents at the end you posted I don´t know either.
#7 gorfnad_the_shiznit Sep 09, 2009 3:03:03	I don´t have the Tome of Battle and there for no access to Eternal Blade or Warblade. I don´t know about the Crusader... he doesn´t have the Bonus to Saves through CHA Mod., what I would like to have. The talents at the end you posted I don´t know either. Okay then, I really recommend geting Tome of Battle or borrowing it if you can. It has some really nice stuff for most classes, not just the ones presented in the book, and Eternal Blade (which is also an Elf only prestige class) fits right in with Champion of C.L. The feats Bounding Assault and Rapid Blitz are from Players Handbook II. And Elusive Target is from Complete Warrior.
#8 nehemia86 Sep 11, 2009 4:25:01	Anyone has a link to the Eternal Blade PrC and the Warblade Baseclass or can post here, what abilities they get?   Can´t find anyone with this Book (ToB) in my reach.
#9 phaedrusxy Sep 11, 2009 9:34:46	It's a whole new system... it would be way too much to post the info you'd need to use it. It would be like explaining how to play a wizard if you didn't own the Player's Handbook.
#10 vistarius Sep 12, 2009 5:13:34	I'm currently running a character like this, and what I did was this:   Level 1-3 Fighter, race wood elf. Wood elf gives you +2 STR +2 DEX, -2 CON, -2 INT Then I took the following feats: Exotic Weapon: Elven Thin Blade, Weapon Focus: Thin Blade, Combat expertise. Level 3: Dodge Then I took 3 levels of Paladin taking my level 6 feat as: Mounted Combat My DM let us take a flaw to get a feat in which I took War Devotion. If you can do that (complete champion) it takes your combat expertise to a new level, sure you won't hit worth a crap but a +6(+7 with dodge) to your AC at low levels is beautiful. Now this is where the build gets a huge damage boost.   Level 7: Exotic Weapon Master (Complete Warrior) take the stung Uncanny Blow, this increases a 1 handed weapon's two handed damage to 2x strength mod, which means at later levels with the Champion your average melee hit with a keen thin blade will crit on a 15-20, deal x2 damage, and do a base damage of Dex+2XSTR+1d8. If your stats by the time you reach this level give you a +5 bonus to both STR and Dex, and you have a +2 enchantment on your weapon, the average damage will be somewhere like...25-30 a hit, but you'll have a high chance of criting. Now its' not the most powerful build and I'm sure there are ways to enhance it, but the power it does is very nice to have.   Now I'd suggest feats like Defensive Sweep at later levels (you're going to have more feats than you know what to do with. I'm playing in Eberron and later on take Heir of Sybiris which is 3 extra feats and scrying) But the best combo you can do is War Devotion/Combat Expertise since they stack. At low levels I'd use a shield, and then drop it for the two handed damage trick until you can afford a dancing shield. I'd put your money in Natural Armor bonuses, Deflection Bonuses, and things that can heal you quickly, like a belt of battle. You'll be tankin' it up in no time. Also, if you have an extra feat there is an armor feat in Cityscape that gives your armor a +1 bonus to AC, but -1 to Check Penalty. If you start getting your armor with mythril, enhancement bonuses, and quickness plus start getting your Champion benefits, your AC will be through the roof.
#11 ashyl Sep 12, 2009 6:42:56	I don't know if anyone already posted this or of what value you will find it, but tanking in DnD is most of the time imposible. At least tanking in the way MMORPG's set it. Any intelligent opponent will quickly target casters and soft targets - your imposible to hit, difficult to down, shield wielding holy warrior in his shiny full plate will be probably the last target a smart enemy will try to kill. You got to approch the aspect of ''Tanking" from whole other prespective imo. :p
#12 vistarius Sep 20, 2009 2:07:41	Well normally you'd be right, but with the amount of damage it puts out it's not something that can easily be ignored and when you're taking the right feats/magic items to interpose yourself between your softer party members, you can usually do alright. I'm level 4 and with a 29 AC and normal morningstar with 22 STR put down a Bone Claw (CR 5, 110 hit points, 20ft reach) with only a little bit of help from the other party members but was the only one in consistant melee with it. There was a full-plated cleric behind me keeping me healed, but for the most part the job of protecting the bard, the soulknife (who was throwing his mind blade) and the ranger (who was shooting) was up to me, and It worked out well.
#13 nehemia86 Sep 26, 2009 5:53:36	Thanks, for all your efforts.   I already started the Campaign with the Character, a Moon elf, which is now 3 Swash/2Paladin.   My DM says as an elf it´s ok, that i´m able to use the Elven Thinblade without an extra feat.   So I will take 5 Levels in Paladin for the Mount, but I am going to take 1 Level in the Exotic Weapon Master for Uncanny Blow and 1 Level of Pious Templar for Mettle, later, after 8 Levels CoCL, 2 more levels templar. 3 Swashbuckler/5 Paladin/2 CoCL/1 Pious Templar/1 Exotic Weaponmaster/ 6CoCL/ 2 Pious Templar   Feats: Power Attack (15), Divine Might (18), War Devotion (9), Imp. Crit (12), Weapon Focus (1), Dodge (6), Combat Expertise (3), Mounted Combat (Paladin Variant without Spells Level 4) (7), Imp. Combat Expertise (CoCL Bonus feat), + 2 other Feats from the Bonus Feat list of the Champion of Corellon ( I don´t know really what i should take here). Weapon Finesse - Swashbuckler (1) Insightful Strike - Swashbuckler (3) Uncanny Blow - Exotic Weapon Master (11) Weapon Specialization - Templar (20) Mettle - Templar (10) Corellons Wrath - CoCL (18)