I tried to squeeze as many damage multipliers into this build (currently at ECL 14 since that is where I plan to have him enter play) as I possibly could, and in so doing was required to make use of Dragon material, as well as dancing the (in)famous Dark Chaos Shuffle no fewer than four times, and taking a pair of flaws on top of all that.
Flying Knight Build
Stats: (rolled)
Base: 18, 15, 16, 15, 11, 11
Adjustments: +14 Str, -4 Dex, +8 CON, -4 Int -2 CHA
Final Stats: STR: 32 DEX: 14 CON: 24 INT: 11 WIS: 11 CHA: 9
Medium Quick Dragonborn Half Minotaur Water Half-Orc w/ Permanent Reduce Person
Base Speed of 50 ft.
0th: Half-Minotaur LA
1st: Mystic Ranger 1 [Track (Shuffle for: Resist Dragonfear), Mounted Combat, Ride-By Attack, Battlejump] {Dragon 336 105}
2nd: Lion Totem City Brawler Barbarian 1 [Imp. Unarmed Strike Shuffled for Imp. Bull Rush]
3rd: Horseman 1 [Power Attack, Item Familiar] {Dragon 310, pg. 36} (Fighter Variant)
4th: Horseman 2 [Spirited Charge]
5th: Mystic Ranger 2
6th: Windrider 1 [Headlong Rush]
7th: Windrider 2 [Grants my Mount Imp. Flight]
8th: Windrider 3 [WF Lance(Shuffled for Shocktrooper)]
9th: Warblade 1 [Leadership]
10th: Swashbuckerl [Weapon Finesse (Shuffled for Leap Attack)]
11th: Dragon Rider 1
12th: Dragon Rider 2 [Leap of the Heavens] [Grants my Mount Hover]
13th: Dragon Rider 3
My Mount is a Very Young Gold Dragon, with 4 bonus HD, +6 NA & +3 Str.
Ride Check:
16 (Ranks)
16 (Item Familiar)
+2 (Masterwork Saddle)
+1 Dex
+2 Synergy (Handle Animal)
+5 Competence Item
Total: 42
Description of Attack Sequence:
Starting in the air, well away and above my target, I ask my mount to begin the charge, with me standing in the saddle and charging recklessly via Headlong Rush. Once I'm at Point A relative to the target, I jump off of my dragon in mid-air, dismounting as a free action and easily making the check for a 20-ft standing long jump, which also, per the Jump description, sends me 5 ft into the air. I reach the apex of this jump at Point B. Diving Charge, Leap Attack & my Halberd of Vaulting are all triggered, since my net displacement from Point A to Point C includes 20+ft of horizontal distance (Leap Attack) AND 10 ft of horizontal fall (Diving Charge) AND a 5-ft high Jump (Halberd of Vaulting). I then land back on the saddle, mounting as a free action at (Point C) and initiate a full attack action, since I am EXACTLY 10 ft from the monster, within reach of my +2 Valorous Morphing Halberd of Vaulting.
Then, as a swift action, I activate Sudden Leap to get above my enemy, falling onto him and triggering a charge via Battlejump. This charge's damage is doubled by the Valorous, Battlejump, Vaulting and Headlong Rush. I then land on my dragon's saddle, and we speed off and prepare to attack the foe again, on the off chance that is should be necessary. Initiation of the attack action and landing are simultaneous events, and I get the benefit of Spirited Charge since I Fast Mount as a free action.
Attack Diagram:
Juicy Damage Calculations:
Damage Doublers:
- Using a Lance while mounted
- Diving Charge Dragonborn ability
- Spirited Charge Feat
- Valorous weapon property
- Halberd of Vaulting
- Headlong Rush Feat
Now, I'm using a Lance, which is listed as being a "Two-Handed Weapon" on the table in the PHB, and neither Power Attack nor Leap Attack say that I have to actually be using two hands to wield it.
So I'm going to apply those bonuses to damage normally, rather than treat the lance as a one-handed weapon.7 * ( 5.5 [small Lance average damage] + 1.5 * (16 [str. mod] ) + 4*(13 [Power attack penalty passed to AC via Shocktrooper]) ) = 571 average damage per attack on my first full attack sequence)
The secondary attack sequence will do noticeably less damage, but since even a Great Wyrm Gold has ~770 HP, and the average Deity has 1,500 at most, I think I'm happy with this build.
Notable Equipment:
+6 Str item.
+2 Valorous Morphing Sizing Halberd of Vaulting
Dragon Saddle (Dr. 308, pg. 19): Holds 2 people so the party wizard can ride behind me and buff / protect me.
Thank you all for taking the time to read this, and I look forward to any helpful feedback that the boards can offer. In particular, since I have my build working at ECL 14, I'm really not sure what to do for another 6 levels.
I think it is reasonable to say that you are attempting to Fast Mount when you are 'landing' on your mount (since you are wanting to once again have the advantages associated with being mounted). The rules for Fast Mount are:
"Fast Mount or Dismount
You can attempt to mount or dismount from a mount of up to one size category larger than yourself as a free action, provided that you still have a move action available that round. If you fail the Ride check, mounting or dismounting is a move action. You can’t use fast mount or dismount on a mount more than one size category larger than yourself."
So a couple of issues...
first if I am following (and I am the first to admit here that I might be confused), you are Small size and therefor can not Fast Mount onto a Large size creature. If you can't fast mount then you can't get back on your mount after having had lept off (at least not as a Free Action which is what you need here).
Second, if you are already charging you do not have a move action still available to you, which is required for a Fast Mount.
Anyway... interesting stuff though!
If he were willing to Sacrifice Leap Attack (and a significant chunk of damage) he could heavily simplify his combat strategy, instead having the dragon pull it's wings out from under it above the target and divebomb it and still trigger battle jump.
Also as Corania said, this is Char Op forum so logic got no place here, but attacking a creature and than LANDING on his mount. First off wouldn't that require that mount is directly below him ? If mount is directly below him, mount is large and give the enemy a full cover making him trigger his Battle Jump on his cohort ?
Somehow i don't believe his cohort would appreciate that
Dragon gets there and launches it's attack of whatever sort it uses.
He lands in the same spot the dragon is, the square right before the target, landing in his saddle with a flourish and delivers a powerful lance thrust.
It's kind of... weird logic, there's no reason you should get the benefits of a mounted charge for landing in the saddle after the dragon's stopped moving, or even right before impact, but RAW it works.
He and his dragon mount (who is medium sized, mind) charge the same target.
Is there something changing the size of his dragon? the SRD lists a very young gold as a L size.
He lands in the same spot the dragon is, the square right before the target, landing in his saddle with a flourish and delivers a powerful lance thrust.
That's just it though, even though you land in the same square does not mean that you land in the saddle. To do that you would need to use the Fast Mount check for Ride and he does not meet the requirements.
It's kind of... weird logic, there's no reason you should get the benefits of a mounted charge for landing in the saddle after the dragon's stopped moving, or even right before impact, but RAW it works.
I guess I am not seeing how it works RAW when by RAW he is no longer mounted.
Scavenge whatever you find to be useful in there. I always meant to rejigger it so that Endy could add it as a Hood build, but I've never quite gotten around to it. I hope it's finally of some use to someone, instead of just upsetting one of my friends so much he doesn't talk to me anymore. :|
Man took his fluff far too seriously.
Far.
Only legit way i see of doing this, is charging your enemy and than using Sudden Leap to get above them and with that triggering Battle Jump, Diving Charge and what not
Oh, and exactly what fluff got taken too far Dr. Rock? I'm curious the story behind this.
He doesn't believe in dipping, at all. Or reflavoring. He takes fluff as law and doesn't really understand why mechanics should be important, a mindset I find very confusing, since I regard nothing in DnD as particularly holy.
We had a day long argument about whether or not I could do these things, if damage that high was possible, which he just absolutely claimed it was not, and my particular stupidity for building it. It started out okay, with the gist of my tactic being that basically I went into a power dive as I left my eagle, jumping forward as it did using its readied action, etc, to mirror my dive. I really delighted in the crazy-angry-berserker-for-justice flavor of it, where he saw only my struggle to make the build work and detested me for it. As the day progressed it became less civil, and in the intervening weeks we began to see each other only at game times. I dunno. Certainly much of the rift is my fault, and not all of it stems from King Vertigo, but this was, I think, the fulcrum point.
Weird, isn't it?
On that note, I've got a monk build (monk 20, believe it or not) that accomplishes a great deal of Hood style damage and possibly even outperforms him in various situations. I plan to be posting it asap.
Btw, nice build Naldor, cool ideas. Not exactly RAW, but it's close enough a DM who'd be willing to accept that level of optimization should let it 'fly' *snicker* lol.
Thing is Zoddy, it's ENTIRELY legitimate to make a long jump that takes you at least 10 feet higher than your opponent.
Don't really want to get into the big discussion over this, but wording doesn't say so, if it just said jump at least 10 feet and end up in square from which you threaten it would be good, but this way its not and that's by both RAW and RAI. Cause falling is falling, not jumping.
It's like saying you are scared of height's when you are actually afraid of falling
But if you guys here came to an agreement about this stuff, i certainly won't be one to question you
On that note, I've got a monk build (monk 20, believe it or not) that accomplishes a great deal of Hood style damage and possibly even outperforms him in various situations. I plan to be posting it asap.
Btw, nice build Naldor, cool ideas. Not exactly RAW, but it's close enough a DM who'd be willing to accept that level of optimization should let it 'fly' *snicker* lol.
Furthermore, at the time I am making the mount / dismount checks (which I can't fail) I still have a Standard action, left, which could be exchanged for a move action. I think then I could make the mount / dismount thing work.
I've added a picture describing the trajectory of both myself and my dragon to the first post.
it's Rule of Cool territory here.
Yea, you'd be surprised how many people don't get that, even some COers
But... I totally feel for you. Some people get very angry over builds, which I never quite understood.
For the OP, the idea is a cool one. I don't think it is the most optimal (I didn't start tracking through hard to help RAW) but this seems innovative. I think it is very important and that it were more rewarded
If not there really is no way, cause as far as i am aware (i could be wrong) when mount moves, it counts as your move action as well if you are on him. So even if you make your other standard action into move action and land onto him, you are left actionless with everything triggered. Now Belt of Battle helps with that somewhat cause 3 times/day you can get another move action - practically allowing you to do what you intend to do, but this build got limitations as much as my build (36 seconds (no) wonder boy).
Dipping into a cleric and getting Travel Devotion, could work giving you more move actions.
Someone please tell me i am not right, cause after reading whole thing again, i would really wish it could work without needing a help from Belt of Battle or/and Travel Devotion
It doesn't count as my move action when the mount moves. After reading this Mounted Combat Theory thread, I was struck by how efficient it was to gain an extra partial action every turn. My jump is triggered as my move action. Fast Dismount is legit, because at the start of the jump I have a move action left. At the end of the jump, Fast Mount is legit, as I have a Standard action left. Since I auto-make both of those ride checks, the mount / dismount parts of the sequence are reduced to free actions, leaving me my Standard action left to initiate my Full Attack pounce.
I'm not left action-less. I'm using (in order): 1 Free action to dismount, 1 Move action to jump, 1 Free action to mount, 1 Standard action to initiate my Pounce, 1 Swift action to initiate Sudden Leap, 1 Free action to fall back down, triggering another Full-Attack sequence, 1 Free action to land back on my mount as it continues it's move action after attacking thanks to Ride-By-Attack.
If you guys have any suggestions on how to optimize things a bit more, they'd be appreciated. And as far as I can tell, with the tweaks I've made, its RAW-legal as the build currently stands.
Also, could I use Power Lunge ton increase the multiplier on my Str. Mod? The wording on it says that I get to "inflict double my normal Strength modifier in addition to the attack's damage." Does that mean the math works out like 7 * (1.5 * Str Mod) + (2*Str Mod) or 7*(2*Str Mod) or 7*(2.5 * Str mod) ?
CHARGE
Charging is a special full-round action that allows you to move up to twice your speed and attack during the action. However, it carries tight restrictions on how you can move.
Movement During a Charge: You must move before your attack, not after. You must move at least 10 feet (2 squares) and may move up to double your speed directly toward the designated opponent. You must have a clear path toward the opponent, and nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles). Here’s what it means to have a clear path. First, you must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. (If this space is occupied or otherwise blocked, you can’t charge.) Second, if any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can’t charge. (Helpless creatures don’t stop a charge.)
If you don’t have line of sight to the opponent at the start of your turn, you can’t charge that opponent.
You can’t take a 5-foot step in the same round as a charge.
If you are able to take only a standard action or a move action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed). You can’t use this option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard action or move action on your turn.
Attacking on a Charge: After moving, you may make a single melee attack. You get a +2 bonus on the attack roll. and take a –2 penalty to your AC until the start of your next turn.
A charging character gets a +2 bonus on the Strength check made to bull rush an opponent (see Bull Rush, above).
Even if you have extra attacks, such as from having a high enough base attack bonus or from using multiple weapons, you only get to make one attack during a charge.
Lances and Charge Attacks: A lance deals double damage if employed by a mounted character in a charge.
Weapons Readied against a Charge: Spears, tridents, and certain other piercing weapons deal double damage when readied (set) and used against a charging character.
So I don't see how you are charging and still getting any move or standard actions. You can only pounce at the end of a charge, and several of your feats trigger off charging if I remember correctly. Sorry don't have actual books handy, but I seem to remember Shock Trooper requiring a Charge. Same with Spirited Charge.
It's actually not much different than what a pouncing, leap-attacking Frenzied Berserker would do, except that I happen to be mounted at the very beginning and very end of my charge in order to trigger Spirited Charge.
How about using Partial Charge ? You would have to spend your move action or your standard action before actually making a charge, but i am sure we can work around it somehow
uh... those move & standard actions are what make up my charge attack. I just broke it down into movement / attack phases, since the actual attack (see diagram) is somewhat complicated.
It's actually not much different than what a pouncing, leap-attacking Frenzied Berserker would do, except that I happen to be mounted at the very beginning and very end of my charge in order to trigger Spirited Charge.
That isnt how it is meant to work by my reading. You no longer have a move and a standard, you have a charge, this is what makes it impossible to use the fast mount/dismount options.
That isnt how it is meant to work by my reading. You no longer have a move and a standard, you have a charge, this is what makes it impossible to use the fast mount/dismount options.
Think this would be fixable with that Dread Pirate class feature (or similar) that lets you charge in a non-straight line, while leaping and climbing and such?
However, I'm not sure you can get a move action out of a standard action. I remember reading somewhere that this does not work.
However, Belt of Battle works, a few times per day.
The real problems I see here is that is by strict reading the moment you're mounted again your own charge becomes invalid, and your pounce ability becomes invalid. Hmm, I guess it's DM's call on that one.
I use a readied action for the mount, which works fine for our now... mutual purposes. Perhaps you would like to talk things over on AIM or similar at some point? I'm adding those to my profile here. It seems like I should make as many friends here as I can while there's still a community to be had, you know?
I see no RAW support for your position, BrainPiercing. Particularly not if your mount is in a freefall dive at that point.
What if mount gets Battle Jump as well? Than practically he is one getting a charge for free, you are just around for a ride ?