Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 sudsymcgee Mar 23, 2008 7:11:47	i do not believe there are any problems with this if there are please tell me. Full Blade Half Giant Build (warning… may break DnD and corrupt your mind) By sudsymcgee Feats Two-weapon fighting I took amnesia to get these Exotic weapon proficiency full blade (flaw which give an extra feat) Oversized two weapon fighting (flaw which gives a feat or ambidextrous flaw) Monkey Grip (flaw which gives a bonus feat) How it Works Half giant is considered large which means using a full blade one handed takes –4 non proficiency penalty. you also a –4 with heavy weapon in off hand with two weapon fighting (a total of –8 / -8 ) Exotic weapon proficiency full blade takes proficiency penalty to 0 (a total of –4 / -4) Oversized two weapon fighting make the full blade count as light reducing it to -2 (–2/-2) Now we add monkey grip. Monkey grip applies to main hand so the main hand full blade can be gargantuan (one size larger than he could normally wield and he could normally wield a huge full blade) And we now make the weapons master crafted for an additional +1 So now we have me at strength 20 (+5) and base attack +1 and enhancement +1 Which gives me +5/+5 3d8+5 [19-20] / 2d8 +5 [19-20] at BAB +6 he can wield 2 gargantuan weapons with improved monkey grip which gives the monkey grip affect to the offhand as well.[/b]
#2 sudsymcgee Mar 23, 2008 7:12:49	i need a class that would go well with this i was thinking war blade... any other suggestions
#3 avonderre Mar 23, 2008 8:03:28	Hi! It's nice to meet you! :D Im glad your mind is working in an optimizing fashion, but you need to slow down and think this over a bit more. 1) Full blades are not in 3.5, as such they can't be used unless your dm permits. 2) Half giants are a terri-bad option, really go with goliath, please! 3) Way too many flaws for someone to feel comfortable, honestly, you're only even allowed to take a max of 2 4) Never take monkey grip, never, everytime you do, I step on a kitten with my stiletto heels.don't make me step on a kitten! Reason is, you're taking a -2 for a few extra damage the dice may not grant you. Rather, grab a sword with two hands and power attack for guaranteed damage! 5) Monkey grip does not stack with powerful build, sorry Now, a better build would be this... Goliath (18 str + 4 racial = 22 base) Grab yourself a level of goliath barbarian + reckless rage feat + mountain rage = +8 strength while raging. so, str = 30 at the moment Now, grab yourself a nice Large Goliath Greathammer (+2 on sunder attempts) So, assuming second level (goliath is also +1 LA) and grab a masterworked LGGH... +12 for 3d6 + 15 and you will have a 10ft reach while raging. Pick up cleave soon! I'd even take a flaw for it right now! which, at second level, means you instantly kill whatever you hit, or near enough. Next post I will expand on this for class choice (warblade is a great option)
#4 avonderre Mar 23, 2008 8:15:41	Allright, so you're saying, wow Avo that's much better, but can I still take levels in warblade after you took that barbarian level? The answer is yes. In fact, rather than take warblade for our 3rd level, we're going to take a 1 level dip into fighter, why? Feats my dear, feats are fun! I recomend Power Attack, because after this fighter level your bab will be 2, which means you can grab 4 more damage on your attacks. And trust me, you'll still hit unless you roll very low. So now you get to add 19 damage onto your attacks, just from strength and power attacks! allright, let's toss a level of warblade onto your character. By now you're thinking, Oh no avo! what have you done?! Now I can't take any good maneuvers at all! Not true! The barbarian and fighter levels add together to determine your actual warblade level. So, in other words, a warblade level counts as 1, a non warblade level counts as .5, all together you have a warblade level of 2! Which means next level you get to grab second level maneuvers (that you would normally have to be a 3rd level warblade to get) Also, your first level of warblade counts as your 3rd level, that means feat time! I suggest cleave or weapon focus (Lg Gol GrHammer) Now I normally would never recommend weapon focus anything, but warblades have weapon apptitude, which means they can switch what kind of weapon their bonus applies to, which makes me a happy! In the end, it's all up to you. However, since you're a 10ft reaching goliath, cleave is the better option Just remember, by the time you grab second level maneuvers, you'll have a total bab of +4, which means 8 extra damage. Which means for example, if you want to try out your fancy new mountain hammer strike (Stone dragon, lvl 2) You would hit for (at max power attack, which usually isn't adviseable)... +11 for 3d6 + 23 damage + 2d6 Now, remember that masterwork weapon? Get it made a +1 stonedragon Large Goliath Greathammer. Why? Because if you're in a stonedragon stance, it gives you a net bonus of +3 to attk. Read up on these martial aptitude weapons at the back of the Bo9Swords. So you have +14 for 3d6 +23 + 2d6 Then you can turn around and cleave into the next monster! and you're only a 4th level character! Avo, signing off! Make love not war!
#5 lench Mar 23, 2008 8:49:37	I was going to say Monkey grip makes baby jesus cry, but dag nabbit Avo. That was a very well constructed answer :D If you really want to wield large weapons, get your friendly mage to enlarge you, and buy strong arm bracers once you can afford them. Avos advice is great, so read that and be happy
#6 avonderre Mar 23, 2008 8:54:39	aww, thanks Lench! I've never heard of strongarm bracers, where are they from? Would they stack with powerful build? Now my mind is percollating like a battered coffee pot... Have a happy easter! sincerely, Avo
#7 Midnight_v Mar 23, 2008 9:01:31	Again welcome to the boards! You are starting out where many of us started out on the path to optimization. All of what Avonderre is correct, I just thought I'd pop in and second it. Alternatively, you could if you were so inclined be a psychic warrior as well which would give you the "Expansion" power as well as an extra feat. Even something as simple as Improved Initiative would be great but that power attack logic is correct. If your goal is to build a more two-weapon oriented build. You need to find a class that gives extra damage on each blow. Really it depends now on narrowing wht you want your build to actually do. Throw down the most possible melee damage at level2? Make use of the Half-giant race? Make thh uber two weapon fighting build? Optimization... Join us and know power undreamed of...
#8 lench Mar 23, 2008 9:05:35	They are from MiC, cost 6000gp. They explicitly do not stack with powerful build. So they are a bit wasted on Goliaths. -Lench
#9 sudsymcgee Mar 23, 2008 9:05:45	BRAVO!!!! thats awsome i didnt know about goliaths ok how about u take monkeygrip and increase that weapon size to a huge hammer but apart from that ur a legendary optimiser and i hope to be like u after some many days of optimising
#10 brainpiercing Mar 23, 2008 9:26:35	RAW, strongarm bracers stack do not stack with Powerful build, but DO stack with Monkey grip - just because it is not excluded. Some people disagree on this, mainly on the reasoning that both provide the ability to use a weapon one size category larger than normal - and normal is your actual size. If you want to be the guy wielding a big weapon, a very nice thematic bonus is taking Fighter 2 as well for Dungeon Crasher variant to bowl people into obstacles for 4d6+2xStr damage. Then add Knockback and eventually Shock-trooper to really be able to play ten-pin bowling with anyone who doesn't have the brawn to withstand your blows. You might quickly end up in XP-penalty-land, though, with Barb, Fighter and Warblade levels, although even-classing Fighter and Warblade is still better than not taking warblade at all.
#11 lench Mar 23, 2008 9:39:59	Monkey grip does not stack with strongarm bracers by RAW. If your DM allows it, you can do it however. Your size is medium, both let you use a weapon one size larger than medium. So the trick here is to get some way to increase your normal size. Psychic warrior, and expansion. Your now Large, with strongarm bracers giving you ability to use huge weapons. Enlarge person from your friendly wizard. In the words of LogicNinja, Do Not Take monkey grip!
#12 nebo Mar 23, 2008 10:02:15	Enlarge person from your friendly wizard. Goliaths are monsterous humanoids. Enlarge also doesn't stack with Mountain Rage.
#13 jameswilliamogle Mar 23, 2008 10:13:03	1) Full blades are not in 3.5, as such they can't be used unless your dm permits Everything not reprinted in 3.5 is still 3.5-legal.
#14 lench Mar 23, 2008 10:40:11	Goliaths are monsterous humanoids. Doh! Enlarge also doesn't stack with Mountain Rage. Dont really know anything about that, so I'm sure your right I always play casters.
#15 sinfire_titan Mar 23, 2008 13:06:31	Hi! It's nice to meet you! :D Im glad your mind is working in an optimizing fashion, but you need to slow down and think this over a bit more. 1) Full blades are not in 3.5, as such they can't be used unless your dm permits. 2) Half giants are a terri-bad option, really go with goliath, please! 3) Way too many flaws for someone to feel comfortable, honestly, you're only even allowed to take a max of 2 4) Never take monkey grip, never, everytime you do, I step on a kitten with my stiletto heels.don't make me step on a kitten! Reason is, you're taking a -2 for a few extra damage the dice may not grant you. Rather, grab a sword with two hands and power attack for guaranteed damage! 5) Monkey grip does not stack with powerful build, sorry Now, a better build would be this... Goliath (18 str + 4 racial = 22 base) Grab yourself a level of goliath barbarian + reckless rage feat + mountain rage = +8 strength while raging. so, str = 30 at the moment Now, grab yourself a nice Large Goliath Greathammer (+2 on sunder attempts) So, assuming second level (goliath is also +1 LA) and grab a masterworked LGGH... +12 for 3d6 + 15 and you will have a 10ft reach while raging. Pick up cleave soon! I'd even take a flaw for it right now! which, at second level, means you instantly kill whatever you hit, or near enough. Next post I will expand on this for class choice (warblade is a great option) Don't you know kittens are the spawn of the devil? That cute, irresistible little visage harbors the mind of a fearsome predator waiting for you to let your guard down.
#16 phoenix00 Mar 23, 2008 13:28:09	starting level 5 buy your party wizard a pearl of power, for the low low price of 9,000 gp you can have your party wizard cast the spell greater mighty wallop. Greater Mighty Wallop treats a bludgeoning weapon as if it was 1 size larger for each 4 caster levels maxing out at 5 sizes or Colossal size. Lasts for 1 hour for each caster level. The Goliath Warhammer does this damage starting from medium size (but since you are a goliath you will want to get the large size hammer) 1d12 ->3d6 ->4d6 ->6d6 ->8d6
#17 umarovi Mar 23, 2008 13:56:53	It doesn't help this particular build, but it's along the same theme. Major Titan Bloodline from UA lets you, RAW, wield a Gargantuan Warhammer without any penalty as a 2h weapon, regardless of your size. It's generally not actually worth it mechanically (although you can make it work with Initiator shenanigans), but if you need to compensate for a really small pe... I mean, want to look cool with a hugely oversized weapon, it's the way to go. Combo with something goofily small for extra laughs.
#18 wih Mar 24, 2008 23:34:56	I'd just like to point out that the maths is on the side of Monkey Grip in this case, if using Fullblades. They do 2d8, for an increase of d8 (4.5) or 2d8 (9) depending on what size category the weilder is. -2 for 4.5 is mechanically stronger than -2 for Power Attack, and -2 to 9 points is certainly stronger. But of course, there's still the you-can't-turn-it-off thing. But straight attack for damage, it turns out better than base Power Attack.
#19 ShakaUVM Mar 25, 2008 5:07:57	Or you can be a half-giant psywar 1... this was an Eberron character of mine in the RPGA, though this is with a 32 point build: Str 20 (22) Dex 12 (10) Con 16 Int 8 Wis 12 Cha 8 Feats: Psionic Weapon, Weapon Focus: Greatsword Power: Expansion, PP: 3 +6 to hit for 6d6+9 damage with psionic weapon, or 30 damage on average. Wasn't bad at 1st level (Xendrik Campaign let you play without a level adjustment at 1st level), and doesn't use any flaws or other questionable stuff. Later on, he'd take Cleric for the Luck and Retribution domains (maximizes weapon dice, for 45 damage per hit, and the ability to reroll attack rolls), psionic meditation, greater psionic weapon, etc. Critting with him was amusing too... rolling 10d6+9 as a 1st level character during the delve at Winter Fantasy a year ago was priceless... I had to break out my fireball dice. Monkey Grip might actually make sense with this build, since the -2 to hit is compensated by +7 to damage or +12 to damage when using retribution domain. At circa 7th level he'd be hitting for 10d6+9ish, or 69 in one hit when maximized by retribution.
#20 Midnight_v Mar 25, 2008 8:05:07	Or you can be a half-giant psywar 1... this was an Eberron character of mine in the RPGA, though this is with a 32 point build: Str 20 (22) Dex 12 (10) Con 16 Int 8 Wis 12 Cha 8 Feats: Psionic Weapon, Weapon Focus: Greatsword Power: Expansion, PP: 3 +6 to hit for 6d6+9 damage with psionic weapon, or 30 damage on average. Wasn't bad at 1st level (Xendrik Campaign let you play without a level adjustment at 1st level), and doesn't use any flaws or other questionable stuff. Later on, he'd take Cleric for the Luck and Retribution domains (maximizes weapon dice, for 45 damage per hit, and the ability to reroll attack rolls), psionic meditation, greater psionic weapon, etc. Critting with him was amusing too... rolling 10d6+9 as a 1st level character during the delve at Winter Fantasy a year ago was priceless... I had to break out my fireball dice. Monkey Grip might actually make sense with this build, since the -2 to hit is compensated by +7 to damage or +12 to damage when using retribution domain. At circa 7th level he'd be hitting for 10d6+9ish, or 69 in one hit when maximized by retribution. +1 Yep, see psywar for the win....