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choosing between godhoods

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
willpower
Dec 11, 2008 23:20:46 Hey everyone,

As I have mentioned in other threads, I have a character that is on the verge of going epic, that is incredibly powerful. I built him using the Shadow Craft Mage Handbook, and took advantage of pretty much all of its tricks. On top of that, my DM's campaign has given me the ability to become use the Shadow Craft Mage tricks without having to use some of the annoying aspects of it. (For instance, My character is a human, so normally I couldn't get into Shadow Craft Mage without going through hoops, but in this campaign, Gnomes are much more steamwork that magicwork, so they don't magic up too much, and my character has created the Shadow Craft Mage PRC from learning old magic.) Also, My character was named Chosen of Mystra with both Spellfire, and Silverfire.

My question is this, I was recently given Spellfire, and I'm 19th level. My GM has altered the Epic rules, so that you can't choose any new PRC's after 20th level. So on my next level, I can choose to start a new PRC, and I have 2 that I am considering.

Due to being Chosen of Mystra, and being able to give myself any magic items I want, I have a Constitution of 30, though, I haven't used any books of knowledge to alter my Constituion yet, so that will be going up a lot more fairly quickly. This makes the character great for the Spellfire Channeler PRC. At 10th level with that, I will have a Constitution of around 38 or so, which will allow me to absorb around 190 spell levels that I can use for channeling spellfire. If I use that in one burst I can do 190d6 of damage in a huge area, particularly if I end up taking the Enlarge Spell-like ability feat. However, I won't go up in spellcasting ability, though I don't really think that is super necessary in epic anyway. Particularly with the houserule my DM has that anytime you gain a class skill, that skill is always a lass skill for you.

The other choice, I am thinking of is technically a Divine PRC, the Nightcloak from the Complete Divine Web Enhancement. I can qualify for it due to the Arcane Disciple Feat giving me Divine Spells, also it doesn't specify that the spells it allows need to be divine spells, just that you go up in whatever spellcasting class, you had previously. Its a pretty good spellcasting class, but as I mentioned, I am not sure that is really necessary in Epic, though its 7th level ability is really uber also. It allows you to add your Intelligence bonus to ALL Saving Throws. Since my Intelligence is currently 36 and will go up also, though not as much as my Constitution in the other choice, that will put all my saving throws into the 40s. The other choice is probably a more powerful choice, but I am anticipating going up against Vecna sometime, and probably a more powerful version of him than is written, so having Super Saving throws and a higher Caster Level for Spell Penetration would be good. I can already reach around a 45 Spellcaster level, though it can never hurt to go higher.

What you all think?
#2
Endarire
Dec 12, 2008 0:30:25 If you lack Incantatrix but qualify for and can get it, seriously consider it; you lose a school- but may be able to regain access via a wish- and you get the especially potent Metamagic Effect and Improved Metamagic. Incantatrix also has an epic progression in Player's Guide to Faerun.

I'm unsure how important caster levels are in epic. CL25 allows you to turn hour/level buffs into all day affairs and caps many caster level dependent effects. Dispelling is common and necessary, meaning a higher CL is better.

Spellfire sounds appealing, but it requires lots of absorbing each time you blast. By the rules as written, you must spend a standard action before the spell is cast to absorb it so you could only absorb swift action spells you cast. (Wraithstrike works, but it's only one spell per round.) How long would you need to recharge?

From what source is Chosen of Mystra?
#3
willpower
Dec 12, 2008 2:22:56 I have seriously thought of Incantatrix. I meet the qualifications, though we now have a second caster in our group and he has 10 levels in Incantatrix. Some of the stuff he can do is great, and he can definitely outdamage me (though that is partly because to do all the things I can do, which is virtually any spell, anytime I want, was rather Feat Intensive. So I don't have a lot of extra Metamagic Feats around for things like making a spell Empowered and Maximized... which brings up a question I've always had, though is best suited elsewhere, but I will ask it here too; If you can't Empower a spell that has no variable component. (IE you don't roll dice) And if you maximize a spell, you no longer roll the dice, but use the maximum amount the dice could have rolled, then does a maximized spell still count as having a variable component in order to be able to use Empower spell on it?) though I am immensely more versatile than he.

Anyway, I had initially decided to take Incantatrix off the table as my next PRC because I didn't want to step on his toes. Though, maybe I should reconsider... Maximizing and Empowering and Twinning Firebrand is pretty badass.

BTW, Chosen of Mystra is in the Forgotten Realms Sourcebook, but there is rules for 'choosing' it for your class. There are rules for using it, but none for getting it. My DM used it sort of like a template.
#4
CantripN
Dec 12, 2008 6:45:07 Empower + Maximise = Maximum Damage + 50% Rolled Damage (and yes, you have to roll for Empower anyway, as per the PHB's text on Empower).
#5
Endarire
Dec 12, 2008 17:18:32 Which book? I checked PGtF, Magic of Faerun, and Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting to no avail.
#6
skarlett_spyder
Dec 12, 2008 18:05:12
Which book? I checked PGtF, Magic of Faerun, and Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting to no avail.

There's a brief description of it under Mystra's entry in the FRCS, but I'm almost certain that the full description is in Magic of Faerun. Check again.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 willpower Dec 11, 2008 23:20:46	Hey everyone, As I have mentioned in other threads, I have a character that is on the verge of going epic, that is incredibly powerful. I built him using the Shadow Craft Mage Handbook, and took advantage of pretty much all of its tricks. On top of that, my DM's campaign has given me the ability to become use the Shadow Craft Mage tricks without having to use some of the annoying aspects of it. (For instance, My character is a human, so normally I couldn't get into Shadow Craft Mage without going through hoops, but in this campaign, Gnomes are much more steamwork that magicwork, so they don't magic up too much, and my character has created the Shadow Craft Mage PRC from learning old magic.) Also, My character was named Chosen of Mystra with both Spellfire, and Silverfire. My question is this, I was recently given Spellfire, and I'm 19th level. My GM has altered the Epic rules, so that you can't choose any new PRC's after 20th level. So on my next level, I can choose to start a new PRC, and I have 2 that I am considering. Due to being Chosen of Mystra, and being able to give myself any magic items I want, I have a Constitution of 30, though, I haven't used any books of knowledge to alter my Constituion yet, so that will be going up a lot more fairly quickly. This makes the character great for the Spellfire Channeler PRC. At 10th level with that, I will have a Constitution of around 38 or so, which will allow me to absorb around 190 spell levels that I can use for channeling spellfire. If I use that in one burst I can do 190d6 of damage in a huge area, particularly if I end up taking the Enlarge Spell-like ability feat. However, I won't go up in spellcasting ability, though I don't really think that is super necessary in epic anyway. Particularly with the houserule my DM has that anytime you gain a class skill, that skill is always a lass skill for you. The other choice, I am thinking of is technically a Divine PRC, the Nightcloak from the Complete Divine Web Enhancement. I can qualify for it due to the Arcane Disciple Feat giving me Divine Spells, also it doesn't specify that the spells it allows need to be divine spells, just that you go up in whatever spellcasting class, you had previously. Its a pretty good spellcasting class, but as I mentioned, I am not sure that is really necessary in Epic, though its 7th level ability is really uber also. It allows you to add your Intelligence bonus to ALL Saving Throws. Since my Intelligence is currently 36 and will go up also, though not as much as my Constitution in the other choice, that will put all my saving throws into the 40s. The other choice is probably a more powerful choice, but I am anticipating going up against Vecna sometime, and probably a more powerful version of him than is written, so having Super Saving throws and a higher Caster Level for Spell Penetration would be good. I can already reach around a 45 Spellcaster level, though it can never hurt to go higher. What you all think?
#2 Endarire Dec 12, 2008 0:30:25	If you lack Incantatrix but qualify for and can get it, seriously consider it; you lose a school- but may be able to regain access via a wish- and you get the especially potent Metamagic Effect and Improved Metamagic. Incantatrix also has an epic progression in Player's Guide to Faerun. I'm unsure how important caster levels are in epic. CL25 allows you to turn hour/level buffs into all day affairs and caps many caster level dependent effects. Dispelling is common and necessary, meaning a higher CL is better. Spellfire sounds appealing, but it requires lots of absorbing each time you blast. By the rules as written, you must spend a standard action before the spell is cast to absorb it so you could only absorb swift action spells you cast. (Wraithstrike works, but it's only one spell per round.) How long would you need to recharge? From what source is Chosen of Mystra?
#3 willpower Dec 12, 2008 2:22:56	I have seriously thought of Incantatrix. I meet the qualifications, though we now have a second caster in our group and he has 10 levels in Incantatrix. Some of the stuff he can do is great, and he can definitely outdamage me (though that is partly because to do all the things I can do, which is virtually any spell, anytime I want, was rather Feat Intensive. So I don't have a lot of extra Metamagic Feats around for things like making a spell Empowered and Maximized... which brings up a question I've always had, though is best suited elsewhere, but I will ask it here too; If you can't Empower a spell that has no variable component. (IE you don't roll dice) And if you maximize a spell, you no longer roll the dice, but use the maximum amount the dice could have rolled, then does a maximized spell still count as having a variable component in order to be able to use Empower spell on it?) though I am immensely more versatile than he. Anyway, I had initially decided to take Incantatrix off the table as my next PRC because I didn't want to step on his toes. Though, maybe I should reconsider... Maximizing and Empowering and Twinning Firebrand is pretty badass. BTW, Chosen of Mystra is in the Forgotten Realms Sourcebook, but there is rules for 'choosing' it for your class. There are rules for using it, but none for getting it. My DM used it sort of like a template.
#4 CantripN Dec 12, 2008 6:45:07	Empower + Maximise = Maximum Damage + 50% Rolled Damage (and yes, you have to roll for Empower anyway, as per the PHB's text on Empower).
#5 Endarire Dec 12, 2008 17:18:32	Which book? I checked PGtF, Magic of Faerun, and Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting to no avail.
#6 skarlett_spyder Dec 12, 2008 18:05:12	Which book? I checked PGtF, Magic of Faerun, and Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting to no avail. There's a brief description of it under Mystra's entry in the FRCS, but I'm almost certain that the full description is in Magic of Faerun. Check again.