Cleric 10+ Advice

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

kobal

Sep 06, 2009 6:12:07

I recently joined a new D&D 3.5ed group. Since the group already had a Witchblade/RDD, a Bard, a Wu Jen and a Rogue I decided to play a cleric of sorts.
Playing clerics is completely new for me. One the one hand this makes it interesting, on the other hand I am very open to any advice about how to build the character.


Boundary conditions:


  • The usable material is PHB, DMG, CWar, CAr, CAd, CDiv, BoED, MM1-3.

  • We are currently level 10, and I do not expect to exceed level 12/13 in the forseeable future.

  • The cleric must have good alignment.

  • Access to magic items is relatively limited (what we find). There is basically no opportunity to purchase a specific item.

  • We use a special character creation system where you but attributes with 80 points on a 1-for-1 basis up to 18. At most one attribute may be naturally 18, the others must be 16 or less. Minimum is 8. Race modifiers and level-ups may of course exceed these boundaries.

Comments (what I came up with myself):


  • I would prefer to play the character more in the direction of caster than in the direction of Melee.

  • I am aware of the fact that mages have a much better offensive potential, but I woud appreciate some offensive power (in what way ever).

  • Race: Halfling (more for the fun factor, could not find any race that gave a significant advanatge)

  • Cloistered Cleric 6/Radiant Servant of Pelor 4 (got special permision for the Cloistered Cleric)

  • Feats: Augment Healing, Extra Turning,  Divine Metamagic (Twin Spell), Divine Metamagic (Reach spell). Our DM goes by the book and therefore does not require me to have the metamagic feat itself before acquireing the Divine Metamagic variant of it.

  • I might take the Church Inquisitor for lvl 3-6, but I have to clarify this with the DM first.

  • I am aware of the fact that Quicken Spell is also a very valid (maybe even better) choice for Divine Metamagic. I chose Twin Spell to get some extra oomph in the case I have to go on the offensive with Flame Strike/Summons/etc. or whenever I need an effect like Dispell Magic to be a guaranteed success. Divine Metamagic (Persistent Sell) seemed more suited to melee oriented clerics.

This is where hopefully your help comes in.


  1. Are there any prestige classes/feats that I have been missing that would offer an interesting/better variant? I would not mind a slight dip on the arcane side, as long as it does not cost me too much.

  2. The cleric spell list is rather immense. What are the highlights, which spells (up to level 7) should I always keep in mind.

 


 


 


 


 

#2

fronkadelic428

Sep 06, 2009 15:51:10

I'm not a great optimizer, but since you seem to be asking pretty standard cleric questions, here and here are good places to look for most of your answers.

#3

pithica

Sep 06, 2009 17:06:05

As a very general statement, 'healing' as a combat tactic is sub-par to most other things. It's reactive, rather than proactive, and unless you build to optimize for it, it's rarely going to actually cover the damage being dealt on a level/level basis. There are cases and particular spells/levels where this isn't true (Heal, for example, is almost always worth it), but it's a very general rule that 'Cures' cast in combat are a waste of your actions. IF you optimize for it, you can certainly get your healing 'output' high enough to cover the damage being dealt by most mobs on a level/level basis, but then you run into the opposite issue, in that healing often 'over-heals' your companions, in which case you're still wasting actions. Either way, though, tactically speaking, healing is something you do in reaction to your opponent, which is something Sun Tzu would generally say is a no-no, you want your enemy to react to you, in the way you want him to, and not the other way around. (Obviously, there are times/circumstances where you have no other option, but those are the exceptions, and not the rule.)


I only bring all this up, because you mentioned Radiant Servant of Pelor, Augment Healing, and DMM-Reach, all of which are ways to optimize for healing, and I thought you should at least be aware that there is a school of thought that says that this isn't necessarily the role you should be taking as a cleric character. Many groups live under the fallacy of thought that says that every group 'needs a healer' and that if you play a cleric, your job is to sit in the back, shut-up, and cast cure spells every round of every fight, or you aren't doing your job. This piss-poor attitude has run many very capable players away from the cleric class, which is a shame because it's a great class with so many other highly (generally much more) effective options, and I don't want it ruining your day if you are one of them. 


It sounds to me like you'd have more fun playing a BFC (that's Battle Field Control) type cleric, than you would playing a healer.


For that, any PrC that continues to advance your cleric casting every level is going to be a good one, and if it gives you bonus domains or boosts to the non-healing aspects of your character, the more's the better.


Based on those books, I would consider something like:


Strongheart *Halfling (*Strongheart is originally from the FRCS, but I think it's in one of the MM's now too, it trades the +1 bonus to saves for a bonus feat)


Cloistered Cleric 3/Church Inquisitor 2/Divine Oracle 5/Contemplative 2/Divine Oracle +5/Contemplative +3


I'd trade DMM: Reach for DMM: Sculpt (if you're allowed C Arcane, I didn't see that in your list), or DMM: Quicken or DMM: Widen. I'd focus all your spells on Area of Effect buffs for your party, debuffs for enemies, or that control/limit the battlefield, like wall spells and cloud/fog spells, or aids to the party, like summons. You can always fall back on a spontaneous cure when you need to, but don't throw them around in combat a lot.  Pick Domains that grant spells that fit this theme, as much as you can, or domain powers that boost your core thematic or grant feats that help you out.

#4

kobal

Sep 07, 2009 4:46:24

Thank you for your detailed and thought out response, it was actually very helpful. Just let me comment on it to clarify what thought process led me to some of the decisions.


Radiant Servant of Pelor was chosen mostly for the Extra Greater Turning. This combines very well with Divine Metamagic, plus it doubles the amount of turning attempts you get for each Charisma boost. Further perks of the RSoP are the purification domain at lvl 5, which grants a not too shabby domain ability (+1 on all abjurations). In particular when you have to dispell, which is reactive but still often the best course of action if the groups melee has been dominated/incapacitated. Plus theres the Aura of Warding that grants +2 on all Will saves for all group members. The boost to healing is just a bonus on top of it all.


DMM: Reach can also be used to deliver Slay Living or Harm. A twinned and reached Harm/Slay Living can quickly incapacitate one foe. There are probably further interesting touch spells, but you micht still be right that this is too narrow to justify the use of one of the rare feat slots. As already mentioned in my original post my knowledge of useful cleric spells so far is very limited. Here more specific pointers would be particularly appreciated.


You are probably correct that Augment Healing is not such a great choice for a feat, I will rethink this.


One problem with divine characters is that from a roleplaying backround it is far harder to integrate multiple prestige classes before catching a veto from the DM. In my case I would be happy if I could get Church Inquisitor and RSOP/one other PrC, anything else would be really pushing it.

#5

Endarire

Sep 07, 2009 23:38:16

Cloistered Cleric is spiffy as it gives you an extra domain, a larger skill list, a small number more spells, and more skill points.

Surge of fortune (Complete Champion) + harm = PAIN! It can one-shot bosses and you.


My current build: Cloistered Cleric3/Church Inquisitor5/CC+2/Contemplative6/CC+4

1: {Aggressive}, [Domains: Knowledge, Time, Travel], Extend Spell, [Improved Initiative], [Lore ("Bardic Knowledge")], Midnight Metamagic, [Noncombatant], {Passionate}, Psycarnum Infusion, [Spontaneous Domain Casting: Travel], {Weak Will}
3: Persistent Spell
4: [Inquisition Domain - Trade for Spell to get anyspell]
6: Psionic Meditation
9: Reach Spell
11: [Luck Domain OR Travel Devotion]
12: Quicken Spell
15: Sculpt Spell
16: [Transformation Domain]
18: Chain Spell

#6

alanlichen

Sep 07, 2009 23:45:08
plus it doubles the amount of turning attempts you get for each Charisma boost.





No, it doesn't. Greater turning is using your normal turning attempts.