Cleric/Druid: Spontaneous healing with Druid Spells? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Cleric/Druid: Spontaneous healing with Druid Spells?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
syserr
Feb 03, 2011 13:17:39 If I took 1st level as a cleric and got the ability to spontaneously cast non domain spells as healing spells, would that allow me to use my druid spells as healing?

It doesn't mention what type, it just says "any prepared spell that is not a domain spell"

I could go something along the lines of:

Cleric 1 (Plant/Travel domains), Druid X
L1 Extend spell
L1-human Persistant Spell
L3 Divine Metamagic (Persistant Spell)
L6 Natural Spell
L9 Firey Burst
L12 Dragon Wild Shape

Input appreciated
#2
j2.504
Feb 03, 2011 13:50:19 Hmmmmmm... That is interesting. I'm not going to comment directly on the question asked, as I haven't looked at the details/wording. But that opens up additional possibilities for theurge types, etc. Particularly if it would also work with spontaneous domain type acf's/feats/variants.

I've never heard of anyone using that line of thinking, but it may be possible. I doubt it's RAI, but it could be RAW.

For the record, off the top of my head, it seems a bit abusable... In essence your Druid casting could power spontaneous healing spells of levels much higher level than your Cleric casting supports. If combined with spontaneous domain casting, you could essentially swap out 9th level druid spells for 9th level domain spells. And, if it also works for arcane (depending on the wording), then you could swap out up to 9th level Wiz spells for up to 9th level Cleric domain or healing spells.

So there's three problems with it:
1) Using other classes' spells to power cleric spontaneous healing/harm/or maybe domain - just sounds sketchy from the start.
2) Depending on the wording, you could swap higher level spells from your Druid side, for spells normally beyond your Cleric's side of casting (though there's probably a prohibitation to this somewhere).
3) Depending on the wording, Arcane spells might be able to be sacraficed, which in essence gives a Wiz spontaneous healing powered by arcane spells. In and of itself, that's no worse than #1 above. But if #2 is possible, now it's definitely over powered (especially if combined with spontaneous domain).

#3
syserr
Feb 03, 2011 14:06:23 I wasn't really planning on trying to use my Plant domain turns as fuel for DMM; allowing that pretty much breaks DMM since you could take two domains with extra turns and use it three times as much.

Plant domain is so I can get the req 15 ranks of Knowledge nature at L12 for Dragon Wild Shape. I might take Animal domain instead (speak with animals 1/day) since it also gives me Knowledge nature as a class skill.

I would get lots of bonus 1st spells, esp since both classes get them based on wisdom.
The 1st level spells I get as cleric spells would probably stay caster level 1, but my spontaneously cast 1st level druid spell modifiers would increase with druid level.

Using the Spontaneous Domain feat isn't broken imo. You are still req to have spells of that level, and at most it will add 27 spells (up to 18 domain spells and 9 healing spells) to your list by the time you can cast 9th level spells as a L18 character (one level behind from lvl 1 as cleric).

According to the way it's worded, you could use arcane spells to spontaneously cast as long as they were prepared (ie. not as a sorcerer).

You can use sneak attack with a weapon you could not use as a rogue if you took a level as a fighter; Using spontaneous casting with spells of another class seems like the same thing to me since it doesn't specify you need to lose cleric spells.
#4
j2.504
Feb 04, 2011 16:43:35

I would get lots of bonus 1st spells, esp since both classes get them based on wisdom.
The 1st level spells I get as cleric spells would probably stay caster level 1, but my spontaneously cast 1st level druid spell modifiers would increase with druid level.

Using the Spontaneous Domain feat isn't broken imo. You are still req to have spells of that level, and at most it will add 27 spells (up to 18 domain spells and 9 healing spells) to your list by the time you can cast 9th level spells as a L18 character (one level behind from lvl 1 as cleric).

According to the way it's worded, you could use arcane spells to spontaneously cast as long as they were prepared (ie. not as a sorcerer).

You can use sneak attack with a weapon you could not use as a rogue if you took a level as a fighter; Using spontaneous casting with spells of another class seems like the same thing to me since it doesn't specify you need to lose cleric spells.

I wouldn't compare a weapon proficiency with a whole additional slice of spells, spontaneously available from a completely different class in the case of an arcane caster using the cleric spontaneous casting.

For example, Wizards are largely separated from clerics by not having easy access to the Cleric healing/cure spell list. Wizards are also set apart from Sorcerers by not having spontaneous casting, generally.

Now, with a one level Cleric dip, a wizard can spontaneously cast tons of healing/cure spells, or those spells found on a domain list in the case of a spontaneous caster - so long as he sacrafices a spell of equivilent level.

I forget the wording of the spontaneous domain thing, and I forget if it was an alternative class feature or feat. I believe it's an ACF from Players Handbook II. I don't remember limitations for the number of castings you could do, because it essentially replaced spontaneous curing/harming with a domain list instead. So, IIRC, It's not just that you would add spells to your list, but that you could spontaneously cast from that list freely by sacraficing spells of equivilant level. Thus the Wizard could cast as many 1st level spells from a domain spontaneously as he has 1st level slots avaiable.

Broken may be a bit strong, but inappropriate might be appropriate

#5
Krusk
Feb 04, 2011 20:23:07
Instead of the spontaneous domain feat, or a one level cleric dip, and then being worried if it works or not, why not just use Spontaneous Healing feat from complete divine.

I mean the feat isn't amazing, but neither is healing in general. Especially the "Cure" line which is what you spontaneously get as a cleric.

I'd rather burn a feat (as a druid, you only need 1) than a class level personally.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 syserr Feb 03, 2011 13:17:39	If I took 1st level as a cleric and got the ability to spontaneously cast non domain spells as healing spells, would that allow me to use my druid spells as healing? It doesn't mention what type, it just says "any prepared spell that is not a domain spell" I could go something along the lines of: Cleric 1 (Plant/Travel domains), Druid X L1 Extend spell L1-human Persistant Spell L3 Divine Metamagic (Persistant Spell) L6 Natural Spell L9 Firey Burst L12 Dragon Wild Shape Input appreciated
#2 j2.504 Feb 03, 2011 13:50:19	Hmmmmmm... That is interesting. I'm not going to comment directly on the question asked, as I haven't looked at the details/wording. But that opens up additional possibilities for theurge types, etc. Particularly if it would also work with spontaneous domain type acf's/feats/variants. I've never heard of anyone using that line of thinking, but it may be possible. I doubt it's RAI, but it could be RAW. For the record, off the top of my head, it seems a bit abusable... In essence your Druid casting could power spontaneous healing spells of levels much higher level than your Cleric casting supports. If combined with spontaneous domain casting, you could essentially swap out 9th level druid spells for 9th level domain spells. And, if it also works for arcane (depending on the wording), then you could swap out up to 9th level Wiz spells for up to 9th level Cleric domain or healing spells. So there's three problems with it: 1) Using other classes' spells to power cleric spontaneous healing/harm/or maybe domain - just sounds sketchy from the start. 2) Depending on the wording, you could swap higher level spells from your Druid side, for spells normally beyond your Cleric's side of casting (though there's probably a prohibitation to this somewhere). 3) Depending on the wording, Arcane spells might be able to be sacraficed, which in essence gives a Wiz spontaneous healing powered by arcane spells. In and of itself, that's no worse than #1 above. But if #2 is possible, now it's definitely over powered (especially if combined with spontaneous domain).
#3 syserr Feb 03, 2011 14:06:23	I wasn't really planning on trying to use my Plant domain turns as fuel for DMM; allowing that pretty much breaks DMM since you could take two domains with extra turns and use it three times as much. Plant domain is so I can get the req 15 ranks of Knowledge nature at L12 for Dragon Wild Shape. I might take Animal domain instead (speak with animals 1/day) since it also gives me Knowledge nature as a class skill. I would get lots of bonus 1st spells, esp since both classes get them based on wisdom. The 1st level spells I get as cleric spells would probably stay caster level 1, but my spontaneously cast 1st level druid spell modifiers would increase with druid level. Using the Spontaneous Domain feat isn't broken imo. You are still req to have spells of that level, and at most it will add 27 spells (up to 18 domain spells and 9 healing spells) to your list by the time you can cast 9th level spells as a L18 character (one level behind from lvl 1 as cleric). According to the way it's worded, you could use arcane spells to spontaneously cast as long as they were prepared (ie. not as a sorcerer). You can use sneak attack with a weapon you could not use as a rogue if you took a level as a fighter; Using spontaneous casting with spells of another class seems like the same thing to me since it doesn't specify you need to lose cleric spells.
#4 j2.504 Feb 04, 2011 16:43:35	I would get lots of bonus 1st spells, esp since both classes get them based on wisdom. The 1st level spells I get as cleric spells would probably stay caster level 1, but my spontaneously cast 1st level druid spell modifiers would increase with druid level. Using the Spontaneous Domain feat isn't broken imo. You are still req to have spells of that level, and at most it will add 27 spells (up to 18 domain spells and 9 healing spells) to your list by the time you can cast 9th level spells as a L18 character (one level behind from lvl 1 as cleric). According to the way it's worded, you could use arcane spells to spontaneously cast as long as they were prepared (ie. not as a sorcerer). You can use sneak attack with a weapon you could not use as a rogue if you took a level as a fighter; Using spontaneous casting with spells of another class seems like the same thing to me since it doesn't specify you need to lose cleric spells. I wouldn't compare a weapon proficiency with a whole additional slice of spells, spontaneously available from a completely different class in the case of an arcane caster using the cleric spontaneous casting. For example, Wizards are largely separated from clerics by not having easy access to the Cleric healing/cure spell list. Wizards are also set apart from Sorcerers by not having spontaneous casting, generally. Now, with a one level Cleric dip, a wizard can spontaneously cast tons of healing/cure spells, or those spells found on a domain list in the case of a spontaneous caster - so long as he sacrafices a spell of equivilent level. I forget the wording of the spontaneous domain thing, and I forget if it was an alternative class feature or feat. I believe it's an ACF from Players Handbook II. I don't remember limitations for the number of castings you could do, because it essentially replaced spontaneous curing/harming with a domain list instead. So, IIRC, It's not just that you would add spells to your list, but that you could spontaneously cast from that list freely by sacraficing spells of equivilant level. Thus the Wizard could cast as many 1st level spells from a domain spontaneously as he has 1st level slots avaiable. Broken may be a bit strong, but inappropriate might be appropriate
#5 Krusk Feb 04, 2011 20:23:07	Instead of the spontaneous domain feat, or a one level cleric dip, and then being worried if it works or not, why not just use Spontaneous Healing feat from complete divine. I mean the feat isn't amazing, but neither is healing in general. Especially the "Cure" line which is what you spontaneously get as a cleric. I'd rather burn a feat (as a druid, you only need 1) than a class level personally.