| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| #1delibatioOct 16, 2009 20:18:35 | EDIT: I failed to mention that I need to defeat a level 20th monk with this, please see my post on page 2 for the current situation [/edit] Here follows a cleric with the philosophy 'Do not get hit'. Meaning: if the healer dies, then what? We are all lvl 11 now, but by the time we are level 12, my character should look exactly like this: He is kind of the Angelic type, Aasimar monster race, with the Winged template from Savage species. He also has a demonic pseudodragon familiar face grafted on his chest, which kind of makes him freaky. AC calculation: Then come the spells: Owl's Wisdom, Cat's Grace, Hatred Domain also provides a +2 against 1 opponent 1/day. I'm not sure which spells would also work. Magic Vestment, Shield of Faith, etc. They don't need to be cleric spells, I have powerful Wizard in the campaign as well. Demonic Familiar Grafted onto the Shoulder, back, stomach or hand. There is one major drawback to all this. The DM still wants to hurt me, but with all my immunities and hard to hit and high will saves, the rest of the party kind of suffers even more. But they can do massive damage and take it as well, so.. |
| #2Omni-WyvernilOct 16, 2009 23:55:58 | Sacred Fist seems like it would work well here, since it gets a lot of extra monk goodies, AC bonuses and full base attack bonus on top of Cleric spellcasting. Most of the prereqs can be met with two levels of Monk plus a one-feat expendature for Combat Casting. |
| #3wraithstrikeOct 16, 2009 23:57:27 | The tattoos are magic items, and you really should be purchasing anything, but that is really up to the DM. I could not find the answer to the natural armor stacking issue. I have seen it before, but now I cant locate it. A cleric under 3.5 is one of the most powerful classes in the game. If he is letting you take VoP, and anything with an LA he is setting you up*. There was a thread on this feat before, but its probably been erased along with a lot of old thread I was subscribed to. The thread made better arguments than I could hope to. I will locate it for you if I can.
* I am not saying it is intentional.
Edit: Fist of the Forest gets Con to AC also. |
| #4bruceleeroyOct 17, 2009 2:42:05 | Ooooh, mystic wanderer from the Magic of Faerun. Gets Cha to AC with one level dip. If you're already using vow of poverty, consider the sanctified spells from BoED. Luminous armor is a +8 AR bonus, plus enemies take a -4 on melee attacks. And you have a sublime glow, which as we all know is pure awesome. |
| #5delibatioOct 17, 2009 7:01:20 | The Sacred Fist Prestige Class (from Complete Divine) would require two more feats which I won't get till level 18, but I will keep it in mind, though I was hoping to have a bit more than a +1 to AC when I reach level 19, if the campaign lasts that long anyways. That's the crappy thing about clerics and PrC; the cleric does not get any bonusfeats. 12th: Vow of Poverty
What do you mean he is setting me up? You mean that at one point in the campaign the DM will give me a situation that might force me to use something of great value and I will lose the effect permenantly? I checked, the VoP gives a BONUS +1 to Natural Armor, so I guess it does stack. As far as the tattoos. I once had my hands magicly altered so I can store one spell as if it had that magic description for magic weapons, so I might be able to get a tattoo, because I don't OWN it, I can't remove it really, right? Same goes for my Demonic familiar. It is grafted on my chest, it counts as an item, (benefits without taking LA, but I did have to take a feat). If I get a tattoo or two while I'm still level 11 and on level 12 I just sell everything and give all my money to a good cause, I might get away with it. I quote: I also have some questions, can I find the Fist of the Forest in any other book than Complete Champion, which is one of the few books I don't own I did find this on the internet: Fist Of The Forest |
| #6Maat_MonsOct 17, 2009 9:27:41 | Air devotion can give you a +3, increasing as you gain levels. Plant devotion can give you a +2. These each use up your swift action to activate. Also notice greater luminous armor, just after luminous armor (this is probably the one BruceLeeroy was thinking of). However, an exalted bonus to AC does not stack with an armor bonus to AC. While we're on the subject of stacking, the ability score bonuses granted by vow of poverty don't stack with cat's grace or owl's wisdom. Are you taking vow of poverty specifically to try to boost your AC? Greater luminous armor could replace the exalted bonus to AC. A periapt of wisdom +4 costs 16,000, a ring of protection +2 costs 8,000, gloves of dexterity +2 cost 4,000, an amulet of natural armor +1 costs 2,000, a vest of resistance +1 costs 1,000. Put that all together, with the extra cost to have the amulet of natural armor combined with the periapt of wisdom and you get 32,000 gp, far shy of the 88,000 gp you should have according to wealth by level. You could buy a +2 weapon or cast greater magic weapon, at your preference. It seems to me like you'd be better off putting the 2 feats toward something else and buying the protective items. |
| #7delibatioOct 17, 2009 11:33:06 |
Why would Owl's Wisdom not stack with the VoP? Owl's Wisdom temporarily boosts Wisdom, which just happens to be one of my sources for AC, though I do get that armor bonus would not stack, but not even magic armor? I knew in advance that with equipment it would be easier to get a high AC, but this is a personal choice and in the nature of the character. I'm basicly trying to get the highest AC (in combat) possible without items. I also like the 'not getting hit' part, so touch attacks would not hit as well. You speak of greater luminous armor which only provides a +8, which is not the same as +11, still I don't see how this would not stack. The AC boost is a BONUS, but I see why Shield of Faith would not stack, because it's a deflection bonus as well. Again, Owl's Wisdom should, I think, as should Cat's Grace as well as something like Magic Armor, since it's made of force. But please explain to me how I am wrong, because I don't know for sure.
EDIT: So I looked up the Air Devotion feat in Complete Champion but unfortunately I do not have acces to the Air Domain. I DO have acces to the Law Domain however, and this would give me a +3 profane/sacred bonus to AC, at least for one minute, once a day. This provides some perspective should we ever make it to level 15, and it works. The book also has some nice spells which I didn't know about, like Aligned Aura. Alignment Law for example, gives a +1 to AC to everyone of the same alignment, and a -1 to damage to everyone of a diffirent alignment. Thanks for the find anyways. |
| #8bruceleeroyOct 17, 2009 13:11:29 | It specifically states under voluntary poverty that the AC bonus granted is an exalted bonus and does not stack with armor bonus.
Whoops! Well, regular Luminous armor might still be worth casting for the glow and the -4 to melee attacks against you with no save.
|
| #9delibatioOct 17, 2009 13:42:22 |
Thanks for pointing that out, I somehow missed that small sentence. The rules seem somewhat flawed in the discription of things. I already have Natural Armor +4, and the VoP grants a +1 BONUS to Natural Armor. Since it also gives a Natural Armor bonus by reason one would say: Yes, Natural Armor stacks with the Supernatural AC Bonus from VoP. Under VoP it states: at 8th level, ans ascetic gains a +1 natural armor bonus, or his existing natural armor bonus increases by +1. There is no way this still could be interpreted as 'Natural Armor bonus does not stack with VoP Supernatural AC bonus' These Stack: Wisdom modifier (so yeah, Owls Wisdom helps) So all these things stack, yet Force effects would not? I think this Armor bonus should refer to actual armor, something you wear and therefor in conflict with what the general idea of living in poverty was all about. But ofcourse in the rules of Mage Armor it says 'gives armor bonus', so it ends there: it does not stack. This probably means that because I chose the hatred domain, the +2 profane bonus probably does not stack with anything exalted or profane, but it should stack with supernatural (even if they ARE conflicting in their very nature). Yeah I've said it, I worship Bane but I'm still allowed to take the Vow of Poverty. So yeah, if I cast Shield of Faith, which provides a +2 deflection bonus, it won't do anything, but say it would give a +3 deflection bonus instead, then it WOULD make it higher by +1. So the higher level cleric spell Shield of Law of +4 deflection would replace the Deflection bonus of VoP. I can't believe I forgot to research how to get a dodge bonus as well. Just the Dodge feat then? edit: I forgot the very existence of enhancement bonus, would it stack? It would only give a +2 next level but it's something. With alls the spells and abilities this would temporaliy give me an AC of 46, which I could live with. |
| #10Maat_MonsOct 17, 2009 21:34:53 | Some clarifications are in order. The +8 bonus you call “supernatural” is actually called “exalted.” (It is supernatural, but that is more of a general category.) You do not get enhancement bonuses directly to AC. If armor has an enhancement bonus, it increases the armor bonus it provides to AC. If a shield has an enhancement bonus, it increases the shield bonus it provides to AC. If natural armor has an enhancement bonus, it increases the natural armor bonus it provides to AC. If your dexterity or wisdom has an enhancement bonus, the increased dexterity or wisdom modifier improves your AC. The +4 to wisdom and +2 to dexterity you receive from vow of poverty are enhancement bonuses. The +4 to wisdom and +4 to dexterity from owl's wisdom and cat's grace are also enhancement bonuses. You could gain +1 to AC by casting cat's grace, but the rest would overlap. As far as I am aware, exalted and profane bonuses stack. They have different names, so there would need to be some specific rule to stop it. Also, a profane bonus is more directly the opposite of a sacred bonus. The benefit magic vestment is to provide an enhancement bonus to a suit of armor. As noted, this causes the armor bonus the suit of armor provides to AC to increase. Magic vestment cannot be targeted at mage armor or luminous armor. It can be targeted on clothing, which is treated as a suit of armor that provides a +0 armor bonus. You could ask your DM about researching a custom spell that instead provides an enhancement bonus to your exalted AC bonus. Sunmantle, also from The Book of Exalted Deeds, looks like a good way to get DR. |
| #11delibatioOct 18, 2009 8:59:03 | Well now that I have a clear overview of this concept called Armor Class indeed it seems this leaves me with limited options: Haste +1 dodge Since most of the spells I have to increase my AC normally cease having any diffirence, I can utilize my offensive and DR spells more. By calculation my AC now should be 38 by the time I hit level 12, but with the boosts and spells I will have acces to I could buff it to 42 or 44 of fighting defensively. Let's say he is a 20th level monk for sake of calculating my odds. Say he has a DEX modifier of +5 and uses the Weapon Finesse feat to use his DEX mod for attack rolls as well as AC. Also he might have WIS mod +4, but this is highly unlikely. My AC is 38 by default, so this gives him the following odds to hit me:10%/10%/10%/0%/0%/0%. With my AC boosted to 44 (or anything of 40 or higher) however: 0% overall. His AC is probably somewhere between 23 and 28, but lets look at the DMG, page 119, which says his AC could be 34 (but his attacks are also 2 lower then I assumed they could be). By BAB will be +6/+1 next level, which falls far into the shadows of the level 20th monk, honestly.
|
| #12Maat_MonsOct 18, 2009 10:46:19 | A natural roll of 20 is always a hit, no matter the difference between AC and attack bonus. The monk has a 5% chance to hit you per attack, so he hits you an average of .3 times per round. He deals an average of 14 damage per attack, so he deals 4.2 damage to you per round on average. It looks like you should have around 62 HP, so it should take him 15 rounds to take you down, barring healing and such. The monk in the DMG has 28 touch AC. That should give you a 25% chance to hit with your first attack and 5% with the second if you are making touch attacks. You'll hit an average of .3 times per round. If you're using unarmed strikes, you deal 6.5 damage per attack on average. So, you'd deal 1.95 damage per round on average. The monk in the DMG has 133 HP, so it should take you 69 rounds to take him down, barring healing and such. You should also note that the monk may choose grappling as his method of attack. This would put the monk at a greater advantage than the previous scenario. |
| #13felgorothOct 18, 2009 16:19:25 | Take Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Broad Blade Short Swords (they're from Complete Adventurer). Dual Wield them (just don't attack with the off hand one if you don't have 2 weapon fighting). When you take at least a -2 with Combat Expertise you gain an additional +1 AC for each sword. That's an extra 2 AC. |
| #14delibatioOct 18, 2009 17:59:18 |
I don't think a monk ever has an off-hand, but maybe that's only to unarmed. I will get the Combat Expertise feat at lvl 15, which I think would provide me with a +5 to AC, if I forgo +5 on my attack. But against this master monk, my AC has ceased to be the problem to win. But the idea was not to use weapons, I don't know: seems more fair and I'm pretty bad at using them. Also: I can't use magic items/weapons anymore once I'm level 12.
Thanks for the imput, I totally forgot that you always have a 5% chance to hit. This actually puts me in a tighter position as well, but ah well. As for the grappling however.. Damnit! Screw it, I'll just Balor Nimbus him, and while I'm at it, I might as well use non-flashy spells. It's not a requirement that I don't use magic, but if I would, I would not fireball him from a distance, or use a crossbow. Last time I tried I couldn't beat the Grandmaster's top student which was probably lvl16, but this time I probably will. It was basicly just a fistfight, no magic what so ever. It's a semi-martial arts thing, actually to somehow prove that my way of fighting is superior. I'm not sure to what extend I should use magical offensive spells, though I will get away with inflict critical a few times. Prayer, Bestow Curse, maybe get someone to cast Shield Other on me in advance of the combat. Hold Person and Divine Power will also help. I can ready one spell of up to lvl 3 on my hand and release it as a minor action, so I could forgo one attack by putting sanctuary on it, and readying on his action. Doom, Create Water, anything really. Ah.. Poison |