The campaign has a slight Roman/Mongol feel to it, and I am using some of the Eberron influence with my section of the campaign and my character.
Stats; Str 17, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 13
Feats: Toughness, Improv. Init., Exotic Weapon Prof (Whip), Power Attack
Skills: Craft (Armor) 7, Craft (Weapon) 7, Forgery 3, Gather Info 2, Handle Animal 5, Intimidate 5, Ride 5, Diplomacy 6
Here is my characters backstory:
Backstory – Laramie (aka ‘Gross) Grossmont Jairan
Not many miles from the northern border of the Empire with the Wintered Steppes lies the merchant trading post of Goebb (named after the former ruling family of the Empire). Being the main trading center along the Southern Great Road, the trading post has been a fixture through out the ages and has seen its host of characters. At the center of the trading community, one family’s establishment is the heart of all trade along the border, Jairan’s. The Jairan Family has run this wondrous establishment for over six generations and has been an ‘informal town hall’ and market for the displaced citizens that have been exiled from the Empire.
The proprietor, Tavick Jairan, father of Grossmont Jairin, and great great great grandson Shar Jairan, once a high powered official in the long forgotten legitimate government, has run the market as a legitimate front for gray-market expeditions, espionage, and incursions into the northern reaches of the Empire. Even though Tavick has retired from the clandestine side of his business, all of his four children, including his only son, Grossmont, have taken up the cause.
The Jairan family’s dislike, actually borders on hatred, for the Empire is only known to a select few outside the family circle. Having been exiled and left for dead on the Wintered Steppes, the Jairan family was able to scratch out a merger existence before getting into the newly expanding trade route along the southern border with the Empire. Over the last 5 generations the trade route has grown to what is now known as the Southern Great Road, and Jairan’s Market has flourished in that time. The Jairan Family has been waiting for the time it can bring the rightful ruling family back into power in the Empire. It will be only a matter of time until the corrupt rulers of the Empire fall, most likely to the hands of a member of the Jairan Family.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. I was looking to go into a prestige class of some sort eventually, or even dual class, but having a CN alignment makes the choices non-existent at best.
Stats;
Str 14,
Dex 17,
Con 16,
Int 14,
Wis 14,
Cha 13
Feats: Weapon Finnesse, Improv. Init., Exotic Weapon Prof (Spiked Chain), Combat Expertise
:D
As a suggestion, look into the Tome of Battle. The Warblade class in that book seems to fit well here; take it in place of Fighter. You can also take some levels in the Swashbuckler class (along with Fighter) from Complete Warrior and the Daring Warrior feat from Complete Scoundrel to make Swashbuckler and Fighter levels stack for certain class features.
From a CO point of view, using Power Attack with a two-handed weapon is more optimal than two-weapon fighting if you don't have a source of precision damage dice (Sneak Attack, Skirmish, etc.), and much, much better than a one-hander and a shield.
As far as Prestige Classes:
Avenging Executioner (Complete Scoundrel)
Exotic Weapon Master (Complete Warrior)
Toughness is a truly terrible feat, don't take it. The whip is a bad weapon, don't use it. Fighter is a horrible class past about level 4, don't stick with it.
As a suggestion, look into the Tome of Battle. The Warblade class in that book seems to fit well here; take it in place of Fighter. You can also take some levels in the Swashbuckler class (along with Fighter) from Complete Warrior and the Daring Warrior feat from Complete Scoundrel to make Swashbuckler and Fighter levels stack for certain class features.
From a CO point of view, using Power Attack with a two-handed weapon is more optimal than two-weapon fighting if you don't have a source of precision damage dice (Sneak Attack, Skirmish, etc.), and much, much better than a one-hander and a shield.
As far as Prestige Classes:
Avenging Executioner (Complete Scoundrel)
Exotic Weapon Master (Complete Warrior)
Thanks for all the responses so far. I agree with the lack of playability of a fighter as he gets higher level. I currently do not have Tome of Battle (yet) so I will have to take your word on the warblade. I do not want to stay with the fighter class for much longer and since I am at an even class level I need to make a switch to a prestige class or maybe I should look at a dual-class (since I am human). The only reason I took toughness was to get the extra HP at the lower levels and I not sure why I chose the whip (I think the spiked chain sounds better) in the first place. I do like to go with higher AC (thus the one-hander) since we were rolling like crud at the lower levels. The co-DM and I have discussed this a little bit and he suggested a 'marshal' to augment the fighter levels I have. Is this a good mix or should I maybe look at a fighter-rogue with an eye towards an assassin prestige class? I will talk with the co-DM and see if he is willing to allow me to 'straighten out' my character feats. Oh, I did add four rankss of diplomacy to flush out my character to match his backstory.
Thanks once again for your help.
Thanks for all the responses so far. I agree with the lack of playability of a fighter as he gets higher level. I currently do not have Tome of Battle (yet) so I will have to take your word on the warblade. I do not want to stay with the fighter class for much longer and since I am at an even class level I need to make a switch to a prestige class or maybe I should look at a dual-class (since I am human). The only reason I took toughness was to get the extra HP at the lower levels and I not sure why I chose the whip (I think the spiked chain sounds better) in the first place. I do like to go with higher AC (thus the one-hander) since we were rolling like crud at the lower levels. The co-DM and I have discussed this a little bit and he suggested a 'marshal' to augment the fighter levels I have. Is this a good mix or should I maybe look at a fighter-rogue with an eye towards an assassin prestige class. I will talk with the co-DM and see if he is willing to allow me to 'straighten out' my character feats. Oh, I did add four rankss of diplomacy to flush out my character to match his backstory.
Thanks once again for your help.
Generally the Marshall class is more of either a Skill-based class, or a buffer. If you're playing the party fighter, then Marshall isn't the best of options. If you're wanting a base class to drop into that would synergise well with Fighter, Barbarian isn't bad, and you generally need 5 class levels to get into a prestige class (though there are exceptions).
Dual-classing went out with 2nd ed, now anyone (ie. demi-humans) can multi-class. Warblade or Crusader (both from Tome of Battle) are both very nice options, the Crusader more-so if you're going with a Spiked Chain, as they tend to have better powers focusing on combat control. If you're wanting to go for damage rather than combat control, Power Attack is more or less a must, and Warblade is probably the better option.
once again, thank you to all that have taken time to help out.
:DAlso, please keep in mind that not everyone is on the board at all times, so please wait 24 hours before bumping.
As a fighter 4/warblacde one I should have 5 feats (since I human) and I am able to make adjustments to fit the class better, correct? Is there any specific feats/skills/manuevers I should keep in mind? As I understand it I should have three manuevers correct?
With Dungeonscape, you can get the (quite excellent) Dungeoncrasher variant, too... There's some twisted combinations that can make Fighters quite viable in general with 20 levels, though they won't be able to match a truly optimized Wizard, Cleric, or Druid for power.
Thanks for the insight. Could you explain that combo to me please? I have to say I am have been away for awhile and am gaining my knowledge back gradually.
is there a specific set of manuevers I should look at as a first level warblde?
build
Fighter
1 Power Attack
Improved Initiative (human bonus)
Weapon Focus (fighter bonus)
2 Two-hand fighting
4 Weapon Specialty
6 Improved Bull rush
8 Greater Weapon Focus
warblade
1 Adaptive Style
Combat Expertise (human bonus -proposed)
5 Combat Reflexes
9 Blind fight
Am I going about this correctly? Are there specific manuever/feat combs I should be looking at?
thanks for the replies
Ok, the co-DM has ok'd me to correct my character to fit in the warblade class. As a human fighter 4/warblade 1 how many feats should I have? 5 feats (from the fighter side) and 1, 2, 3 as a 1st level warblade?
build
Fighter
1 Power Attack
Improved Initiative (human bonus)
Weapon Focus (fighter bonus)
2 Two-hand fighting
4 Weapon Specialty
6 Improved Bull rush
8 Greater Weapon Focus
warblade
1 Adaptive Style
Combat Expertise (human bonus -proposed)
5 Combat Reflexes
9 Blind fight
Am I going about this correctly? Are there specific manuever/feat combs I should be looking at?
Feats are granted based on character level, not class level. You only get feats when your character level is 1,3,6,9,12,15,18. So you will have a total of 6 feats with a Fighter 4/Warblade 1: 1 human bonus feat, 2 from character levels (1,3), and 3 bonus from Fighter levels (1,2,4). When you hit level 6 you will gain another feat for character levels regardless of what class you take.
Your feats will need some work though. First, there is no feat called Two Handed Fighting, it's just that fighting with a weapon in two hands is superior damage-wise unless you are using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat tree with additional sources of damage. Additionally Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization and that whole feat tree are weak feats and generally not worth taking unless they are required for a prestige class. Improved Initiative and Power Attack are both really solid choices, so stick with those. I wouldn't bother with Adaptive Style with a warblade honestly. It allows you some flexibility mid-combat, but your maneuver refreshing mechanism is superior as a warblade and I don't think the benefit of changing maneuvers mid-combat is enough for the feat, personally. However if you like it then stick with it.
What feats you pick will largely depend on how you want this character to fight. Your stats are high enough that you won't have any problem with picking feats. I'll go with a pretty standard battlefield control build and suggest you take crusader rather than warblade to accompany this.
1 - Combat Expertise, Improved Initiative (human bonus), Exotic Weapon Proficiency (spiked chain) (fighter bonus)
2 - Improved Trip (fighter bonus)
3 - Stand Still (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#standStill also in the Expanded Psionics Handbook)
4 - Combat Reflexes (fighter bonus)
These are all the feats you get for now. At level 6 you could take either Extra Granted Maneuver or Stone Power. I'd suggest Stone Power since with the delayed damage pool of the Crusader it makes you extremely difficult to kill.
Now on to maneuvers. As a 1st level crusader you get 5 maneuvers known plus a 1st level stance known. Because your fighter levels add 2 to your initiator level, you are free to choose 2nd level maneuvers since you have an initiator level of 3. For the stance I suggest Iron Guard's Glare since this is a battlefield control build. You want your enemies to be going for you, or to be hindered if they don't. For maneuvers try:
Crusader's Strike (a little extra healing never hurts)
Stone Vise (more battlefield control)
Mountain Hammer (big damage, avoid any sort of damage reduction)
Stone Bones (a little extra defense can be nice)
Leading the Attack (help your allies)
You can take a look at others, but of these I'd say Stone Vise is probably the most important. Everything else you can change to suit your taste.
Thanks for catching the goof on TWF.
What feats you pick will largely depend on how you want this character to fight. Your stats are high enough that you won't have any problem with picking feats. I'll go with a pretty standard battlefield control build and suggest you take crusader rather than warblade to accompany this.
1 - Combat Expertise, Improved Initiative (human bonus), Exotic Weapon Proficiency (spiked chain) (fighter bonus)
2 - Improved Trip (fighter bonus)
3 - Stand Still (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/ps...htm#standStill also in the Expanded Psionics Handbook)
4 - Combat Reflexes (fighter bonus)
These are all the feats you get for now. At level 6 you could take either Extra Granted Maneuver or Stone Power. I'd suggest Stone Power since with the delayed damage pool of the Crusader it makes you extremely difficult to kill.
Now on to maneuvers. As a 1st level crusader you get 5 maneuvers known plus a 1st level stance known. Because your fighter levels add 2 to your initiator level, you are free to choose 2nd level maneuvers since you have an initiator level of 3. For the stance I suggest Iron Guard's Glare since this is a battlefield control build. You want your enemies to be going for you, or to be hindered if they don't. For maneuvers try:
Crusader's Strike (a little extra healing never hurts)
Stone Vise (more battlefield control)
Mountain Hammer (big damage, avoid any sort of damage reduction)
Stone Bones (a little extra defense can be nice)
Leading the Attack (help your allies)
You can take a look at others, but of these I'd say Stone Vise is probably the most important. Everything else you can change to suit your taste.
I really like the way you took this character. The more I read the Tome of Battle for Dummies thread the more I like the martial adepts. One question is should I focus on being the group 'tank' by going crusader eventhough we have a 4th level barbarian in the group? Or, would it better serve the group by me playing the warblade (catch-all type of class) to help me cover for their inexperience since I have been playing for such along time?
possible build (as a warblade)
1 - Combat Expertise, Improved Initiative (human bonus), Two-weapon fighting (fighter bonus)
2 - Exotic Weapon Proficiency (two-bladed sword) (fighter bonus)
3 - Stand Still (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/ps...htm#standStill also in the Expanded Psionics Handbook)
4 - Combat Reflexes (fighter bonus)
(should I get a feat as a warblade too?)
I would keep the manuevers you have mentioned as the base for the character.
Thanks for all the help and ideas. Once I get a hang of this it should be a cool character.
I really like the way you took this character. The more I read the Tome of Battle for Dummies thread the more I like the martial adepts. One question is should I focus on being the group 'tank' by going crusader eventhough we have a 4th level barbarian in the group? Or, would it better serve the group by me playing the warblade (catch-all type of class) to help me cover for their inexperience since I have been playing for such along time?
possible build (as a warblade)
1 - Combat Expertise, Improved Initiative (human bonus), Two-weapon fighting (fighter bonus)
2 - Exotic Weapon Proficiency (two-bladed sword) (fighter bonus)
3 - Stand Still (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/ps...htm#standStill also in the Expanded Psionics Handbook)
4 - Combat Reflexes (fighter bonus)
(should I get a feat as a warblade too?)
I would keep the manuevers you have mentioned as the base for the character.
Thanks for all the help and ideas. Once I get a hang of this it should be a cool character.
A barbarian really is less of a tank and more of a cannon. I want to say glass cannon but they are pretty durable. Their rage ability tends to lean them towards reckless damage as opposed to staying alive and keeping everyone else alive which is the job of a tank.
With the spiked chain build you can put people on the ground or keep them in place and do it with a 10ft. reach. While you are locking everyone down the barbarian and everyone else is safe to run around the battlefield taking everyone down. Also using Iron Guard's Glare will keep the enemies focused on you since they will have trouble hitting everyone else thus protecting everyone while they do their running around.
If you wanted to go the warblade two-weapon fighting route I would suggest one of two things. If you'd like to keep a battlefield control build use a guisarme and wear armor spikes. This gives you almost the same ability as with a spiked chain although it'll be a bit more risky tripping people within 5 feet of you with the armor spikes. If you'd like to go with a more traditional two-weapon fighting route you should grab Tiger Claw maneuvers and probably use something like paired kukris or some other large crit range weapon. In either case if you want to go warblade you'll have to drop the Crusader's Strike maneuver as the warblade can't select Devoted Spirit maneuvers as well as another maneuver, since they only get 3 to start. You'll also have to choose a different starting stance.
Crusader build (fighter 4/crusader 1 IL 3)
1 - Combat Expertise, Improved Initiative (human bonus), Combat Reflexes (fighter bonus)
2 - Exotic Weapon Proficiency (spiked chain) (fighter bonus)
3 - Stand Still
4 - Extra granted Manuever (fighter bonus)
Manuevers/Stance
Stance 1: Leading the Charge (<< 1st level (5):
Crusader's Strike (a little extra healing never hurts)
Stone Vise (more battlefield control)
Mountain Hammer (big damage, avoid any sort of damage reduction)
Stone Bones (a little extra defense can be nice)
Leading the Attack (help your allies)
[Stone Dragon Strike (possible in order to take Stone Power feat later???)]
Your Stance should be Martial Spirit or Iron Guard's Glare, unless you're planning on getting Pounce somehow.
Stone Vise, Mountain Hammer and Stone Bones, or any one of them really, are enough to get Stone Power. Otherwise, your maneuver selection looks good, though I'd get Foehammer, too.
After having read all the great posts on here, the ask a simple question thread, and the ToB for Dummies I believe a Crusader will fit what I wish to do best.
Crusader build (fighter 4/crusader 1 IL 3)
1 - Combat Expertise, Improved Initiative (human bonus), Combat Reflexes (fighter bonus)
2 - Exotic Weapon Proficiency (spiked chain) (fighter bonus)
3 - Stand Still
4 - Extra granted Manuever (fighter bonus)
Manuevers/Stance
Stance 1: Leading the Charge (<< 1st level (5):
Crusader's Strike (a little extra healing never hurts)
Stone Vise (more battlefield control)
Mountain Hammer (big damage, avoid any sort of damage reduction)
Stone Bones (a little extra defense can be nice)
Leading the Attack (help your allies)
[Stone Dragon Strike (possible in order to take Stone Power feat later???)]
Unless you are going to trip I wouldn't bother with Combat Expertise. Extra Granted Manuever is not a fighter bonus feat, so you can't take it. I would instead take Power Attack (arguably the best warrior feat ever) and Stand Still for battlefield control, which is even better than Improved Trip when facing big monsters, and has a very good synergy with Thicket of Blades.
1 - Combat Expertise, Improved Initiative (human bonus), Combat Reflexes (fighter bonus)
2 - Exotic Weapon Proficiency (spiked chain) (fighter bonus)
3 - Stand Still
4 - Power Attack (fighter bonus)
Manuevers/Stance
Stance 1: Iron Guard's Glare
1st level (5):
Crusader's Strike (a little extra healing never hurts)
Stone Vise (more battlefield control)
Mountain Hammer (big damage, avoid any sort of damage reduction)
Stone Bones (a little extra defense can be nice)
FoeHammer
I think this will work. So when do I get the next feat? character level 6?
Crusader build (fighter 4/crusader 1 IL 3)
1 - Combat Expertise, Improved Initiative (human bonus), Combat Reflexes (fighter bonus)
2 - Exotic Weapon Proficiency (spiked chain) (fighter bonus)
3 - Stand Still
4 - Power Attack (fighter bonus)
Manuevers/Stance
Stance 1: Iron Guard's Glare
1st level (5):
Crusader's Strike (a little extra healing never hurts)
Stone Vise (more battlefield control)
Mountain Hammer (big damage, avoid any sort of damage reduction)
Stone Bones (a little extra defense can be nice)
FoeHammer
I think this will work. So when do I get the next feat? character level 6?
With this character, he will have an IL of 3 can he use level two manuevers? if so, can he move towards thicket of blades?
With this character, he will have an IL of 3 can he use level two manuevers? if so, can he move towards thicket of blades?
A Fighter4/Crusader1 will have an IL of 3 which is enough for 2nd level maneuvers, but you need an IL of 5 to get Thicket of Blades. Remember that you can multiclass your different martial adepts: if you wish, you can go Fighter4/Crusader1/Warblade2/Crusader+1, picking up Thicket of Blades at your second level of Crusader, and also getting you a smattering of Warblade maneuvers, and it'll let you pick which way you wish to go down after you find which one you like more.
As a crusader (from ToB) it doesnt show that they can use Iron Heart manuevers or stances? Do they ever gain that ability later on or is it on warblades that can use IH?
The only disciplines that you can gain access to using Crusader levels are Devoted Spirit, Stone Dragon and White Raven. If you want Iron Heart without spending levels in Warblade, you'll have to either go into Eternal Blade, Master of Nine or spend Martial Study feats on it.
You might want to consider multiclassing between Crusader and Warblade - it may be a littel more complicated (you'll have to manage both of your recovery methods seperately), but you'll have more maneuvers to pull from (even if they'll be a level or so lower than you'd normally be able to access).
...Remember that you can multiclass your different martial adepts: if you wish, you can go Fighter4/Crusader1/Warblade2/Crusader+1, picking up Thicket of Blades at your second level of Crusader, and also getting you a smattering of Warblade maneuvers...
Stance: Martial Stance (2hp heal on succesful attack)
Manuevers: Mountain Hammer (Stone level 2) +2d6 damage on hit
Stone Bones (Stone level 1) DR 5/adamanite 1 round
Douse the Flames (WR level 1) opponent can't AoO/1 round
Tactical Strike (WR level 2) +2d6 damage
Crusader's Strike (DS level 1) 1d6 +2 hp damage heal
I know Foehammer should have been on there, and I plan on adding it on the next gained manuever level, but the balance of healing and damage should help our party out. Now, my biggest challenge now is to somehow fit the religious peity of the crusader into my character's background...hmmmm
I do want to thank everyone that has been helping me with this... your kindness if greatly appreciated.