Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 streetshaman Apr 10, 2008 17:03:12	Hello I posted a while back for a challenging build...the druid/beguiler gestalt. I have to say it is working out fantastically despite some claims of no synergy, being a monster (MoMF) under a Drow disgusie (+40 bluff, skill tricks, beguiler buffs) in the City of the Spider Queen adventure has been very fun so far =) In any event, I have another challenging build to request on mad minds that dwell here. It may not be the -best- opt but this is what the player wants to play so...if anyone can super tweak his blueprint I would be a happy halfling! This is what he really wants to play: Lesser Air Genasi Air Elemental familiar Gestalt Classes: CL 14/14 Scout/Thief Acrobat and Wizard/Unseen Seer (scout and unseen seer for crazy skirmish dice) I was thinking: Scout 10/ThfAcrob 4 and Wiz (Div) 5/UnseenSeer 5/Wiz (Div) 4 stats w/ level adj: Str:10 Dex:18 Con:16 Int:22 Wis:8 Char:10 Feats: Imp Init, Otherworldy (back to full Genasi, no LA), Quick Recon, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Imp Familiar (air elemental), Imp Skirmish (total of 7d6 skirmish dice when move 20'), Spell Focus (div) Spell Focus (??) Skill Focus (Spellcraft) [2 spell focus and spellcraft focus for Archmage 1 to the wiz side asap to get Arcane Reach] and I think Spell Linked Familiar. Options could also be Chain spell and Rapid Shot. this is about as far as I have gotten with my ideas and research. He is pretty dead set on the classes and race and familar choices. I was wondering if a better build could be made for a sneaky, tumbly scout/wizard with massive skirmish dice? Also I am sure the feats needs a good combing. If anyone is up to the challenge to help me build this guy his ideal character, please throw me a bone =) thanks in advance!
#2 Wyvernhand Apr 10, 2008 17:20:57	Um...using the Scirmish/Sneak Attack transparency, I'd grab the feat Staggering Strike. The DCs you'll force will be ungodly, so anything you hit with your move + spell will pretty much be autoslowed. Then you just keep moving and casting, strafing away to rack up nice damage while being reletively untouchable. Whirling Blade is a fun spell for Scirmish delivery, especially since you have to move to activate Scirmish, you can move in such a way to line all your targets up in a row to do mean things to multiple people. Its like Improved Multishot as a 2nd level spell. EDIT: For even nastier nastiness, Empower your Whirling Blade as a 4th level spell slot to gain an extra 1.5x your normal scirmish damage, since its all about the variable goodness.
#3 zendu Apr 10, 2008 17:24:49	AFB! Guessing on alot of this! Scout/wizard is an interesting idea, however I think there are ways to reach this that are considerably better than how you are approaching it. scout 1/ranger 9(arcane caster varient)/spellwarp sniper(CS) 10?. I understand that he is trying to do divination things, but to me this alternative is what he is looking for. This has considerably better BAB and no d4 hitdie classes. Hes losing alot of spellcasting levels no matter how you slice it, the improved skirmish ability from CS will help a bit with damage. Why scout? Ninja might be able to do the same thing, and since you can cast invisibility, you can negate the major problem of the class. I'll try and think up another way of doing it, but scout's super slow damage progression combined with the need for spells makes the combination quite difficult.
#4 streetshaman Apr 10, 2008 17:25:17	nice ideas I will add them our worksheet! EDIT Zendu: He is gestalted so the Wiz side should have full caster progression. Also DM house rule, no Ninja/samurai as our FR campaign has not met the eastern folks yet.
#5 streetshaman Apr 10, 2008 18:38:33	Anyone else up to the challenge? The AC con bonus stonewarden debate has gone on long enough!! =P
#6 zendu Apr 10, 2008 20:35:27	gestalt changes quite a bit, my bad. why not scout 1/rouge 19//wizard 3/master specialst 2/unseen seer 10/spellwarp sniper 5
#7 streetshaman Apr 10, 2008 22:18:14	Hmm that looks rather appealing. I really like the wizard side you have presented. I think I will discuss the benefits of spell warp sniper with him and see what he thinks. I know he is envisioning a sniper/magic user kind of thing and the SWS looks more appealing the more I read about it. At CL 14 he has a couple of levels to decide on the sniper PrC. On the other hand, I am curious as to the benefits and drawbacks to going Scout 1/Rogue 19 instead of say Scout 10/Thief Acrobat 5/Scout 5 Again he wants to be a mobile archer on that side of the gestalt and being an archer; wouldn't it be most advantageous to get lots of skirmish dice from Scout stacking with the skirmish dice from Unseen Seer? I can see why the Thief Acrobat could be so-so vs. straight rogue...but the Acrobat PrC abilities would work nicely with a character that needs to move 20' every round regardless of terrain to geta fistful of dice. Of course I could be very wrong and usually am =) If you have the time could you address the finer points I may be over looking on the scout/acrobat/rogue side of the gestalt and what the big trade offs or inconsequential class features may be? From my view the scout offers skirmish dice, feats, camo/hide in plain site, bindsense, evasion, fast movement, uncanny dodge, flawless stride, and battle fortitude. Add the improved evasion from T-Acrobat as well as the terrain, tumble, balance, jump and climb advantages and it makes a very mobile class that again, has to make that 20' move every round. Thanks for taking the time to read my ramblings, please add at your leisure =)
#8 zendu Apr 11, 2008 16:18:35	The reason that I say rouge 19/scout 1 is for swift ambusher, whos requirement is a little different than i originally thought, you need scout 3. scout3 /rouge 17//wizard 3/master specialst 2/unseen seer 10/spellwarp sniper 5 +7 d6 skirmish/+5 ac, raystrike +2d6 +4d6 sneak or skirmish (unseen seer) +9d6 sneak attack so 22d6. remember that you will only be attacking once a round, so you have to make it count. In my opinion thief acrobat is suboptimal in a normal build, and horrible for this one. Are you forgetting that you will be a full caster? Fast movement? Get out of here, you have flight, haste, expeditious retreat etc. I think you have glossed over the special abilitys of a rouge. Fast Acrobatics Is nice, however by this point the penalties wont mean much, since you will be able to auto-pass balance and tumble checks, not to mention spider climb. Kip up How often do you plan on being tripped? steady stance Has nothing on uncanny dodge. Agile fighting Nice in some builds, but why are you fighting defensibly when you can cast invisibility and the like? Slow fall You can cast featherfall Acrobatic Charge You will be using ranged weapons Defensive roll Duplicated by the rouge levels. Skill mastery Same Imp Evasion Same. Look at the feat savy rouge [CS], I really don't see how this is worth giving up 2 skills and 3d6 sneak. My bad, I was building for 20 like all silly optimizers do. I think the buildout will still work for 14, I would take Unseen Seer first still.
#9 phaedrusxy Apr 11, 2008 16:26:02	The Insightful Divination feat is something to look into, if he's a diviner or has SF: Divination. There is a ranger divination spell (Hunter's Eye?) that gives you sneak attack dice based on your caster level. With Unseen Seer, you can add it to your known spells list, giving you a big boost to your damage.
#10 Wyvernhand Apr 11, 2008 16:39:18	Agreed, TA is kind of overkill on the whole mobility thing, and not worth the roguey goodness you are forsaking. I like the idea of something like Scout4/Ranger16 on one side, and Wiz3/MS2/USS10/SWS5 on the other. If you take the levels right, you'll end up with full BAB, full wizard casting, and the ability to pretty much permalock down 1-2 foes by using reflex save duelthreat AoEs like Frost Breath and Greater Thunderclap with SWS to get no-save disables, all the while you are strafing around adding on that sweet sweet bonus damage.
#11 zendu Apr 11, 2008 17:51:58	Ya ranger is notable for giving you a new spelllist.