This is only for new readers. During the discussion we, or better said, I swapped from a one into a two weapon-using build.
Surreal's Index: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=482636
Hope that helps,
Cheers,
Pryor
There is also the Einhander feat from Players Handbook 2. It requires Tumble 6 and Bab +4. It gives you three tactical maneuvers.
1. When fighting defensively or you are doing a total defense = +2 dodge bones to AC.
2. If you hit an opponent, you get +2 to tumble to avoid AoO.
3. After a full attack action, with two successful hits, you may feint as a free action in the following round using Sleight of Hand instead of Bluff.
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There is the Single Blade Style from Dragon Magazine Compendium. It requires Combat Expertise, Weapon Finesse, Bab +10 and Int 13. It gives you a staggering +2 dodge bonus to AC IF you wear light or no armor... and wield a weapon of which you have Weapon Focus with.... and has the off hand "free".
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Insightful Strike wants you to TWF, it will weep until you give it TWF.
I love you guys :D
I will look over everything.
Only one thing to be said: Dragon MAgazine is not allowed, but thanks for the fast replies.
I have no PHB II at hand and I defenitly dont want to fight with Two Weapons.
Maybe this not really optimal, but I try another playing style.
Edit: Ok, thats the plan at the moment: I considered to change PrC from Duelist to Bladesinger, but the newer Bladesinger from Complete Warrior is too weak I think. I will talk to the DM. Maybe I can play the older version.
Posted a new build. Would like to her some oppinions on it
Posted stats
Any suggestions?
Also, try to get in as much SA dice as possible. I'm thinking about the weapon enhancement in the CAdv that adds SA Dice and Assassin's Stance, from the Shadow Hand discipline from ToB, if that's allowed. While you're in that book, grab Shadowblade: this allows you to, most of the time, add Dex to damage.
To-do-list:
- Looking up "slashing blades" alt. class feature
- Note "deadly precision" weapon enhancement (thx to GawainBS for that idea, I like it
- Looking up "Comlplete Mage" for alt. class features (thx to ChristopherGroves)
ToB is not allowed, so I wont get anything out of the book (but we have it, DM doesnt like it)
Question:
At the moment I try to think about the following:
What is better at level 6? Improved TWF or Daring Outlaw? TWF means to take the rogue levels very much later (from Level 7 to 9 -10)
In numbers would this mean:
With Daring Outlaw:
2 attacks at +6/+6
Main hand damage: 1d6 + 1 Str + 2 Int + 3 d6 Sneak = ~15 damage
Off hand damage: 1d6 + 2 Int + 3d6 Sneak = ~ 14 Damage ( not calculated)
With TWF ( and then 6 Levels of Swb):
4 Attacks at +7/+7/+2/+2
Main hand damage: 1d6 + 3 (Int and str bonus) = ~6 damage
Off hand damage: 1d6 + 2 (only Int bonus) = ~ 5 damage
To sum it up:
With Daring Outlaw at level 6 I have: 2 attack which have a good chance to hit and deal good damage, if I can sneak.
With Improved TWF I have 4 attacks, but only two have a good chance to hit. With Vexing Flanker it is a complete different situation, but even then the 2 attacks with SA deal much more damage at a higher percentage to hit (Sry for my bad english btw).
What do you think?
Oh, and if you could use Eberron stuff, check out the House Lyrander PrC. For the love of the gods, I can't remember its name, but it nearly screamed "Swashbuckler." Maybe your DM even allows you to adopt it to his world.
List:
- Shield of Blades checked, it is almost in
- alternative class features in Complete Mage checked, but found only things which are nice to have but not necessary, and i cant trade away grace or evasion (grace for daring outlaw and evasion is too good to give away)
Ok, I got my books back. I looked up everything in search of a light weapon which has a critical range of 18-20. I only found the Kukri in the PHB.
Is there anything better? In this case I thought of taking a flaw and taking Telling Blow at level 1, because then I have a better chance to deal out SA even when Im fighting alone.
Grace should be kept as it translates into Shield of Blades, but anything that advances Grace should advance Shield of Blades as well.
I think it was in Complete Mage that you got the ability to cast a number of Spell-Like Abilities, which weren't too shabby. (It's called "Arcane Stunt", IIRC.)
Craven is from "Champions of Ruin" (p. 17).
Another intersting feat is "Sacred Strike" from "BoED". d8 SA against evil creatures, instead of d6, sounds nice.
For the rest, yes, I had the "trading for" part mixed up.
1)rogue telling blow, sneak attack: 1d6
2)swash-finesse (retroactive: grace +1)
3)fighter- two weapon fighting, improved buckler defense
4)rogue evasion, (retroactive: +2d6 sneak attack)
5)swash grace +1 (moves to level 2)
6)rogue- daring outlaw, penetrating strike (rogue variant), +3D6 sneak attack, +1 dodge to AC
7)fighter - open feat
8)swash insightful strike
Finish with Rogue... or maybe get up to 4 fighter and then rogue if you want more feats..
Some feat ideas for later in the build, or if you just want to rework things:
Craven
Iron Will
Improved Critical - Kukri
Improved two weapon fighting
Combat Reflexes
Vexing Flanker
Sneak Attack of Opportunity
Darkstalker
Parrying Shield
Staggering Strike
Silencing Strike
Dodg, then
Titan Fighting
By level 2, you want a Rapier as your main weapon, maybe some leather armor, some spare weapons, some bolt cutters, a crowbar, a grappling hook and rope, a small mirror, some climbing boots/climbing tools, some smokesticks, some kind of ranged weapon, like a longbow or shortbow, maybe some acid flasks, maybe a potion of lesser vigor...
1)rogue telling blow, sneak attack: 1d6
2)swash-finesse (retroactive: grace +1)
3)fighter- two weapon fighting, improved buckler defense
4)rogue evasion, (retroactive: +2d6 sneak attack)
5)swash grace +1 (moves to level 2)
6)rogue- daring outlaw, penetrating strike (rogue variant), +3D6 sneak attack, +1 dodge to AC
7)fighter - open feat
8)swash insightful strike
Finish with Rogue... or maybe get up to 4 fighter and then rogue if you want more feats..
Some feat ideas for later in the build, or if you just want to rework things:
Craven
Iron Will
Improved Critical - Kukri
Improved two weapon fighting
Combat Reflexes
Vexing Flanker
Sneak Attack of Opportunity This
Darkstalker This
Parrying Shield This
Staggering Strike
Silencing Strike
Dodg, then
Titan Fighting
By level 2, you want a Rapier as your main weapon, maybe some leather armor, some spare weapons, some bolt cutters, a crowbar, a grappling hook and rope, a small mirror, some climbing boots/climbing tools, some smokesticks, some kind of ranged weapon, like a longbow or shortbow, maybe some acid flasks, maybe a potion of lesser vigor...
Tell me where this feats from, please.
Sneak Attack of Opportunity is an Epic feat so I'm not sure where apart from the SRD or the ELH.
)But then I looked up the other suggestions of Gavinfoxx.
Then I saw Staggering Strike and looked it up. If I understand that right, the opponent which is hit by my SA must make a fortitude save against the damage.
That would mean, lets say, I hit my enemy with 3 SAs, then he has to make 3 Fortitude saves against variable damage, or he cant take a full attack action.
Is this right? Are there any errata or did I simply understood that wrong?
Because when this Char is level 7 he has 3 attacks and deals 4d6 SA. Thats an average damage of ~14. With the "Deadly Precision" Weapon Enhancement the DC is by ~20, which means that a fighter has to save against 3 tough DCs. Ok, a level 7 Fighter has a good Fort (maybe 10 or something)but even 3 times 20% of saving is a good chance. I think this could be worth it. Oppinions?
Then: I definitly dont want to take Improved Critical, because I think the Weapon Enhancement is far cheaper then 2 Feats (Weapon Focus and Improved Crit) and the +1 to hit is no real loss.
At Gawain: This Shield Ward combo is very nice, just with Shield of Blades I get a nice bonus. But I dont think that I have enough feats to do that, except I take some levels of fighter, which I dont want (but maybe I have to, we will see)
I consider taking Disruptive Attack from PHBII. I think its very strong against enemies, which are immune to SA.
And I consider taking the ACF "Antiquarian" from Complete Champion, becuase its a good hook to jump into RPG. His job is to find Relics or something. Maybe he trades with such goods or something (thats only for side information) and I see no reason why I should keep a crapy +1 against traps.
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Character build is updated
- Staggering Strike is in at the moment.
- added alternative class features, which I would consider
Also, via the 2nd lvl Wizard spell "Heroics" (SpC), you can get Fighter bonus feats, as long as you don't use them for prerequisites. Just get an item made that has the spell permanently on it. There are rules for in the DMG.
Is Combat Reflexes a prerequisite? Otherwise, I'd dump it.
What do you think of the Dungeonscape Penetrating Strike variant?
There are many items that increase Sneak Attack damage.. The Assassination enhancement (Cityscape Web Enhancement), the Rogue's Vest, Bracers of the Hunter from Secrets of Xendrik...
Also,when I was doing this sort of build, my DM let me use this house rule:
The epic and nonepic sneak attack of opportunity feats combine, that is, when you have combat reflexes and +3D6 sneak attack, your first attack of opporunity in the round is a sneak attack, but when you have combat reflexes, the opportunist class feature, and +8D6 sneak attack, any attack of opporunity you make is a sneak attack...
Here is the Cityscape Web Enhancement with Assassination weapon property...
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070314a
I have to say, that I dont know "Penetrating Strike" ACF from this book, what can you do with it?
Sneak Attack of Opportunity is not allowed, epic or not.
Assasination Enhancement sounds nice and would be a mighty enhancement for this char, but I think it wont be allowed.
At GawainBS: Combat Reflexes is prerequisite for Vexing Flanker.
Hm, SA less useful? Ok, there are a lot of high-level Monsters, which have Immunity against it, but there are at least some ways to bypass is.
I would make sure to get the weapons up to +3 (as in, the BASE +3 enhancement) as soon as possible, in order to get the crystals or whatever from MIC that help you sneak attack SA immune creatures.
That is also another reason to get improved critical - kukri, since spending money for the +3 enhancement, +1 for keen, and a +1 for deadly precision, and +30k gp for Prismatic Burst and/or +5k gp for slow burst... + 6k for a greater demolition crystal, +10k for a truedeath crystal.. that adds up!
edit: are you sure you cant get access to anything in MIC?
Also, I usually like this build to be heavy on intelligence and heavy on rogue, to get massive skill points, so you can spend them on many, many things that can help this concept work out well...
Then I should try to take them early, because I dont want xp-penalties for multiclassing. Thats the point at which Gavinfoxx` build is in again.
@Gavinfoxx: I just dont know, but MIC is maybe available. I have to ask. I think Impr. Critical is in when I take 2 -4 fighter levels.
Rogue levels are fine, but I dont know if they are worth to take in a meele build, when I can have d10 as hit dice. Ok, skills (and therefore skill tricks) are sometimes very useful, but you have lesser hit dice and worse base attack bonus. I mean, what do you think can help this build? Did you think of something special?