If there are rules, there is optimization!
But some systems DO make it easier on you. d20, by being so incredibly rules-oriented and releasing, in every new book, unconnected and badly un-tested (by anyone knowledgeable about rules in OTHER books) mechanics, invited abuse beyond what many other systems could.
In other words, though optimization can happen in ANY system, it's probably only complex and entertaining enough to spawn entire forums in d20!
Well, maybe not ONLY. But close to! d20 has invited optimization on the level at which MMORPGs like Diablo II and others have - in effect, a massive, microscopic inspection of how the rules work which allows people to find loopholes to exploit.
Better yet, rather than having hard-wired rules with predetermined outcomes (as in a computer game), it's based on interpretation of language and implementation by individuals (gamers), leading to all sorts of fun linguistic loopholes and semantic games that can be played to break things even further.
Which is why CO has become such an interesting entity in d20, and, I'd argue, should be as fundamental to its brand and product image as the 20-sided die itself!
Thoughts?
its been ages since i was overly familiar with it, but i dont think they fixed any of it.
take the lizard mage as an excellent example..
as another example in the super powers books, you can build a force field protected, force field sharing, immune to every thing monster, at lvl 1...
overall i think their whole system is more broken than d20, CO ing it gets silly fast.
Though, I think the books are tested - its just they're not tested in relation to every other book out there ... and therein lies the fun.
i think its even easier with palladiums stuff.
its been ages since i was overly familiar with it, but i dont think they fixed any of it.
take the lizard mage as an excellent example..
as another example in the super powers books, you can build a force field protected, force field sharing, immune to every thing monster, at lvl 1...
overall i think their whole system is more broken than d20, CO ing it gets silly fast.
Ah, but Palladium didn't even TRY to balance things - everything was roll-based (like what animal type you ended up with in TMNT - who wants to be a freaking mutant PIGEON?!) or just plain imbalanced (who wants to play a Vagabond in Palladium when you can be a fricking mutant cyborg super-powered whatever-the-hell-it-is in RIFTs?). There's nothing fun or interesting about optimizing in a system in which everybody can SEE how to break things and there isn't even a token attempt to keep stuff balanced.
Now in something like d20, where there have been loads of rules and regulations set up with the ostensible goal of hindering optimization, things get more interesting . . .
Plus, Palladium had an imbecellic (did I just make a neologism, there?) development system - VERY little was gained by levelling, and most characters started with massive power, which made advancement pointless. This was another obstacle to the development of the kind of massive and active community of optimizers that has emerged around d20.
There's also a lot more books for D&D than most other systems. Thus, each book gets a smaller share of the playtesting time and, well, the playtesters don't have time to go over them in the fine detail we do here at CO.
Ah, but were they tested only a bit by folks as aware of the rules as we are, they'd be MUCH less susceptible to the kind of abuse we've managed here.
I LOVE CO, and, as a result, have come to APPRECIATE that they haven't done the testing and editing it would take to prevent the semantic shenannigans we indulge in over here. With a simpler, more solid, less particulate, and less modular system, a CO community would never emerge.
And, I believe (though I could be wrong!), it NEVER HAS for ANY OTHER tabletop RPG.
That's a pretty big deal, and that's why I think CO should be acknowledged and TREASURED as part of d20's brand identity!
Ah, but Palladium didn't even TRY to balance things - everything was roll-based (like what animal type you ended up with in TMNT - who wants to be a freaking mutant PIGEON?!)
Dude ... you're totally trashing my favorite character I played in TMNT. I miss Sambo ... he and his friend Waldo Ralph Emerson ...
So yeah, it's about ten times as much fun in d20 as in most other systems.
However, there aren't many games out there with the sheer quantity of options for players that exist in D20 - which is why CO is far more effective (and frankly - more of an artform) in the system.
It's not even about balance in the end. You won't see a CO taking a "mutant pigeon" in TMNT. However - look on these boards and you will see almost every Class and Prestige Class tackled - due to incredible mass of options.