Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 kurashu May 26, 2008 12:27:01	Alright, I'm prepping for an upcoming play-by-AIM game and the DM wants to see two or three builds before we start. As far as I know, there's two other guys: one is going to be a soulknife (I know, I tried talking him out of it) and the other is going to be a warblade/chameleon. I'm split between doing a combat rogue and cleric with a small amount of cheese or a blackguard demonbinder. Cheesing out a cleric doesn't take much and if I do blackguard demonbinder I'll use PXY's Durak as a guide, so combat rogue is what I'm seeking help on (again). I don't much about else. In theory, everything is allowed except Dragon/Dungeon. We're playing a homebrew setting. I don't know if flaws are allowed and there is the possibility of gestalt. We are starting at level 1 (last I was told). Alastair, NE Human Here's the build so far: 01 Rogue 1 02 Rogue 2 03 Rogue 3 04 Rogue 4 05 Rogue 4/Fighter 1 06 Rogue 4/Fighter 2 07 Rogue 4/Fighter 2/Swashbuckler 1 08 Rogue 4/Fighter 2/Swashbuckler 2 09 Rogue 4/Fighter 2/Swashbuckler 3 10 Rogue 4/Fighter 2/Swashbuckler 3/Swordsage 1 11 Rogue 4/Fighter 2/Swashbuckler 3/Swordsage 1/Dread Commando 1 12 Rogue 4/Fighter 2/Swashbuckler 3/Swordsage 1/Dread Commando 2 13 Rogue 4/Fighter 2/Swashbuckler 3/Swordsage 1/Dread Commando 3 14 Rogue 4/Fighter 2/Swashbuckler 3/Swordsage 1/Dread Commando 4 15 Rogue 4/Fighter 2/Swashbuckler 3/Swordsage 1/Dread Commando 5 16 Rogue 4/Fighter 2/Swashbuckler 3/Swordsage 1/Dread Commando 5/Avenger Executioner 1 17 Rogue 4/Fighter 2/Swashbuckler 3/Swordsage 1/Dread Commando 5/Avenger Executioner 2 18 Rogue 4/Fighter 2/Swashbuckler 3/Swordsage 1/Dread Commando 5/Avenger Executioner 3 19 Rogue 4/Fighter 2/Swashbuckler 3/Swordsage 1/Dread Commando 5/Avenger Executioner 4 20 Rogue 4/Fighter 2/Swashbuckler 3/Swordsage 1/Dread Commando 5/Avenger Executioner 4/Nightsong Enforcer 1 Feats: 0H: Skill Focus (Intimidate) 01: Two-Weapon Fighting 03: Improved Initiative F1: Dodge F2: Mobility 06: Craven SB: Weapon Finesse 09: Daring Outlaw SS: Weapon Focus (Dagger) 12: Shadow Blade 15: Gloom Razor 18: ??? As the build stands right now: I'll get Dex and Int to my damage, I'll leave strength around 12 or 13 so I'm not holding a sign that says "Drain My Strength" over my head. Charisma will probably be around 16. Wisdom will be around 14. Consitituion will have to be around 16. So, I'll be boosting dex and intelligence through the roof. Tomes, items, spells, level increases. I have 17 BAB and +5d6 Sneak/+6d6 Strike (if I'm doing my math right) before Assassin's Stance. My IL is +10. I can initimdate to flat-foot my opponents for gouging attacks with sneak and strike, not to mention the boosts I'll have at hand to sneak up and kill my opponent dead. I have a +10 to Initiative before Dex (Dread Commando 5 + Quick to Act + Improved Initiative), and my allies have a +5. I can move stealthly with no penalty for normal movement and only -10 for running; I can take 4 off my armor check penalty for any armor. I get +20 circumstance to spot/listen for my allies. When I strike my opponents, they need to succeed on a will save or be shaken, I can demoralize as a move action, and can sneak/strike shaken/frightened/panicked. What I'm not happy about: I'm screwed against undead, constructs, and oozes. My sneak and strike don't apply and my INT to damage doesn't either. How late shadow blade and gloom razor enter. I'm waiting so long to take Swordsage to pick up Assassin's Stance. Other maneuvers I'll probably grab: Shadow Garrote, Clinging Shadow Strike, Shadow Jaunt, Cloak of Shadows, Shadowblade Technique, and ???. And how feat strapped this guy is. I'd drop Nightsong Enforcer for another level of Swashbuckler, but I'd lose a SA die and not gain much from Swash except an extra 1hp. My will is flat-lined and if someone pulls a will-or-screwed spell, I'm screwed. Fort probably isn't that hot either. My last concern is the amount of classes: 4 base class, 3 prestige classes. If there is a way to streamline this (I'd be willing to drop AE if I could pick up the lost dice) So, suggestions? Comments? Criticism?
#2 22_Over_7 May 26, 2008 12:39:53	There are several Rogue ACFs that let you Sneak Attack normally immune opponents. Dungeonscape has one that lets you SA anything at reduced effectiveness.
#3 rebel7284 May 26, 2008 12:52:43	Ranks in UMD for wands of gravestrike and golemstrike.
#4 kurashu May 27, 2008 15:38:00	UMD is everyone's friend. I'll be sure to boost it as much as possible. Hide, Move Silently, Bluff, Listen, Spot, and Disguise will probably be my top skills with UMD. And then toss some ranks into Disable Device and a few other skills. Are there any other suggestions? Ways to fix the Sublime Way coming in so late short of taking swordsage at level 1 instead of later (therefore losing Assassin's Stance and some other goody maneuvers)? Also, I'm considering dropping AE 4 for Swashbuckler +4. Increased hit points, trade +2d6 SS for +2d6 SA.
#5 Nibbler May 27, 2008 20:18:52	Where's the rest of the TWF tree? If you want to wail on your enemies, you'll need all the attacks you can get.
#6 ChristopherGroves May 27, 2008 20:33:30	I would check out the Beshadowed Blade (in the handy links thread). Also, at Swordsage 1 you get a FIRST LEVEL stance ... not a stance of any level available due to your initiator level.
#7 kurashu May 28, 2008 2:02:22	Aw crap. I was afraid of something like that. It seemed too good to be true. The rest of the TWF tree is tied up because this build is feat starved. Though, we might be able to get flaws which eases the pain quite a bit.
#8 Nibbler May 28, 2008 13:16:12	I'd consider ditching Dread Commando all together. Unless you're really dying to get those class features, the combination of more levels of Swashbuckler and Daring Outlaw gives you full BAB and sneak attack progression. Sudden strike isn't as good as sneak attack (doesn't work when just flanking if I remember correctly). As for the TWF tree, you're not going to have that many hit points. The faster you can take out enemies, the better off you're going to be. Those two extra attacks, with sneak attack and your strength, dex, and intelligence, are going to be huge. Perhaps you should try a build like: Rogue 4/Swordsage 3/Swashbluckler 13
#9 kurashu May 28, 2008 13:23:07	True dread commando just seems cool to me. *shrugs* Bonus on initiative and all that jazz. Though the Rogue 4/Swordsage 3/Swashbluckler 13 build is solid as well, probably more hit points as well. TWF tree, Craven, Shadow Blade, and Gloom Razor. Telling blow? What other feats are good?
#10 gaffer May 28, 2008 13:31:41	I would check out the Beshadowed Blade (in the handy links thread). Beshadowed Blade is really more of an "I'm in ur face, rippin' it off" kind of build rather than a skill monkey. The stealth is pretty crazy with the Dark template, though. Also, at Swordsage 1 you get a FIRST LEVEL stance ... not a stance of any level available due to your initiator level. I STILL disagree with this interpretation, but everyone seems to hold it. Did I miss a Cust Serv response or something? Kurashu, I'd probly rock something very similiar, adding that 3rd level of SS very late for whatever maneurver you want. -Gloom Razor isn't amazing, but it's decent. -Get Staggering Strike. DO IT. -I'd recommend working Stormguard Warrior in there somewhere, but I don't know where you'd put it. -Clarion Commander is decent as well, as you can Intimidate someone into being flanked.
#11 cjerowe May 28, 2008 13:40:24	I've always liked the Ranger/Scout/Rogue. Awesome skill points, a LOT of Sneak attack / skirmish with the Swift hunter/ambusher and improved skirmish feats and skirmish (7 dice at 20) affects your favored enemies: Constructs & undead (maybe oozes).
#12 ChristopherGroves May 28, 2008 20:17:01	I STILL disagree with this interpretation, but everyone seems to hold it. Did I miss a Cust Serv response or something? Nah, just look at the specific text in ToB Stance's Known: You begin play with knowledge of one 1st level stance from any discipline open to you.