Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 keithio Mar 06, 2009 22:57:40	This character is joining a group which already has a face, a tank, an arcane and a divine caster. They seem pretty well covered, only really lacking someone to handle traps. I decided I wanted to play a character based on Artea from the videogame Lufia. Artea is an elven archer with spellcasting as well. Any books allowed (not Dragon), 32 pt buy, fractional BAB, no multiclass exp penalty, starting at lvl 1. Here's what I came up with: (First levels not in order) Scout3/MartialAbjurer1/CloisteredCleric1/UnseenSeer2/MasterSpecialist10/Archmage1/ArcaneArcher2 The 3 lost caster levels for Scout3 were painful, but they along with Unseen Seer qualify me for Improved Skirmish. Without that I don't feel his archery is good enough. Hunter's eye from Unseen Seer will also add some nice power to his bow. The 2 lost cast levels at the end also are annoying, but Arcane Archer is just too much of an iconic PRC to pass up. The 2nd level ability just fits too well with my character idea to give it up, although 2 levels of abjurant champion would be nicer. The character is also a very good dispeller, that wasn't part of my original concept of Artea but I felt it fit quite well. I take mastery of counterspelling from archmage, of course. domains: inquisition, war(wpn focus longbow) and knowledge feats(2 flaws): Spell focus (abjuration) Spell focus (something else) precise shot point blank shot rapidshot practiced caster (wiz) many shot knowledge devotion greater manyshot improved skirmish For stats I'm thinking [Gray elf] STR 14[12] DEX 16[18] CON 14[12] INT 16[18] WIS 8 CHA 8 The end result seems like it will be a fun character to play. Good without being overpowered, and handling niches of traps and dispelling. Some helpful buffs for myself and the party, and decent competence with his bow. I'm looking forward to playing it. I would have liked having room for arcane mastery, but that feat makes counterspelling/beating SR boring and cheap. What do you guys think? And don't bother telling me that a Wizard20 who holds a bow and pretends he knows how to use it is a superior character, because I already know that
#2 gorfnad_the_shiznit Mar 07, 2009 0:29:23	Maybe something like: Scout 3/ Martial Abjurer 1/ Elf Paragon 3/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Unseen Seer 6/ Arcane Archer 2 Or for a twist (Cha based instead of Int) Scout 3/ Bard 3 / Unseen Seer 4/ Sublime Chord 2/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Unseen Seer 1/ Arcane Archer 2 Edit: Bard based without much CL loss and 9th level spells Scout 1/ Bard 4/ Unseen Seer 4/ Arcane Archer 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Unseen Seer 2
#3 keithio Mar 07, 2009 1:15:57	Sublime chord is a good idea, I think I may try some SC builds and see if I like the taste of them.
#4 jameswilliamogle Mar 07, 2009 7:37:00	How about: Grey Elf Spellthief 1 / Abjurer (or anyspecialty) 5 / Unseen Seer 10 / Arcane Archer 2 / Arcane Trickster 2 Master Spellthief, Practiced Spellcaster, PBS, Precise Shot, Far Shot 17 spellcasting levels (CL 20) 5d6 sneak attack +8 BAB (blech!) Light Armored Spellcasting 3 extra divination spells (yes!) Imbue Arrow (which is the main reason for AA)
#5 keithio Mar 07, 2009 8:23:20	Combining your input I think I like: Spellthief1/Bard4/UnseenSeer3/ArcaneArcher2/SublimeChord1/AbjurantChampion5/UnseenSeer4 (Requires fractional BAB to qualify for AA) (Requires that master spellthief trumps Sublime Chord for determining caster level) (Requires Elf or Half-Elf; Half-Elf required to avoid multiclass EXP penalty) (Not sure if Abjurant Champion can use Spellthief stolen spells to power its class feature, kinda sketchy if they're not arcane spells) Wow, it looks like I might play a Half-Elf Bard. How did optimizing turn me into a half-elf bard? I'm scared now.
#6 jameswilliamogle Mar 07, 2009 9:15:14	Assuming the fractional BAB works out, it looks pretty awesome! Use Confusion at range, for example, sounds wicked (and is the basis of a Core-only build Bard / Arcane Archer that I'm going to try out someday). What spells are you going to pick? This sounds interesting... Another option: drop some of the Unseen Seer levels to fit in Bard 8 in there for the extra strength Inspire, and take Arcane Archer at the last levels (which would be OK for high level play, but prob. not for most campaigns).
#7 keithio Mar 07, 2009 9:58:21	I'm still up in the air a bit for this build. What I really want in it is that second level of spellthief, which lets you steal spells active on the target (IE buffs). Fitting it in there is hard though, since Sublime Chord takes 3rd level spells. Spellthief2/Bard4/UnseenSeer3/ArcaneArcher2/SublimeChord1/AbjurantChampion5/UnseenSeer1/ArcaneTrickster2 That one loses a level of Sublime Chord casting to fit it in. It doesn't require factional BAB to qualify for AA anymore, however fractional BAB does raise the BAB from 15 to 16. Spellthief2/BattleSorcerer3/UnseenSeer2/Spellsinger1/ArcaneArcher2/SublimeChord1/AbjurantChampion5/UnseenSeer2/ArcaneTrickster2 This one still relies on fractional BAB, takes two lame feats (Bringing the total prereq feats used to 7, so with flaws you get knowledge devotion and one other feat) to get into Spellsinger in exchange for not missing out on any Sublime Chord casting. The icing on the cake is that it avoids multiclass penalties, which helps if your DM is a jerk like that and you'd rather not be a half-elf. Basically I strongly prefer option number 2 if flaws and fractional BAB are in play. If you really really wanted 16 BAB and weren't allowed fractional BAB you could go: Spellthief2/Bard4/UnseenSeer3/ArcaneArcher2/SublimeChord1/AbjurantChampion5/UnseenSeer1/DragonSlayer1/Spellsword1
#8 jameswilliamogle Mar 07, 2009 10:03:06	I guess you can't have it all... It seems like you have to choose which of the three you want: Imbue Arrow +16 BAB* 9th level spells* Stealing buffs* <-I agree, this is definitely the strongest thing you've got here besides 9th level spells, and totally worth it. (*These are the three I'd go for) And if you want it to all come together at relatively low level, you are even more limited... Hrm... any way you could play gestalt?
#9 keithio Mar 07, 2009 10:30:47	Erm, the last build I posted DOES get all four, lol. It just barely fits in the feats without flaws. Doesn't need any house rules, but it's important that Master Spellthief overrides the strangely worded Sublime Chord (Caster level of 20 is much nicer than Caster level of 5). In the below build the 2nd level of arcane archer can (and probably should) be delayed until much later. Spellthief2/Bard4/UnseenSeer3/ArcaneArcher2/SublimeChord1/AbjurantChampion5/UnseenSeer1/DragonSlayer1/Spellsword1 The build really really wants one more feat, for knowledge devotion, but needs to be human (arcane archer requires elf/half elf) or take flaws. If you can't do those things then just go Spellthief2/Bard4/UnseenSeer3/ArcaneArcher2/SublimeChord1/AbjurantChampion5/UnseenSeer1/ArcaneTrickster2 And you free up 2 feats, gain 1d6 sneak attack, and lose 1 BAB, immunity to fear and -10% ASF.
#10 keithio Mar 07, 2009 18:43:00	Okay after realizing just how many juicy archery feats there were that I wanted I have come up with this build: SpellThief2/HealingHymnBard1/CloisteredCleric1/MartialWizard1/UnseenSeer4/ArcaneArcher1/SublimeChord1/AbjurantChampion5/UnseenSeer3/ArcaneArcher1 ***[AB]USES FRACTIONAL BAB TO QUALIFY FOR ARCANE ARCHER AND TO HAVE 16 BAB BY LEVEL 20*** I'm quite pleased with it.