Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 atarvarno_dup May 03, 2008 11:15:08	I am trying to find the last two feats to take with my Ultimate Healer. This character was created, because the DM that took over has no qualms with just out right doing massive damage to the party every single encounter. Enough to generally drop the high armor/high hp member of our party in 2 - 3 rounds. This is what I have so far, any comments, suggestions, questions? Level Progression Cleric Cleric Cleric Cleric Cleric Paragnostic Apostle Radiant Servant Radiant Servant Radiant Servant Radiant Servant Radiant Servant Radiant Servant Radiant Servant Radiant Servant Radiant Servant Radiant Servant Paragnostic Apostle Contemplative Contemplative Contemplative Feats 1) Augment Healing 3) Extra Turning 6) Imbued Healing 9) Touch of Healing 12) Domain Focus (Healing) 15) 18) This gives me a caster level of 25 when casting Healing Domain spells, at the moment. Not really looking for more caster level, just better heals, or things to stack on my heals. I was thinking of picking of Reach Spell, and then Divine Metamagic (Reach) so I can stand back out of combat. Race is a Dwarf, Setting is Eberron, Deity is "The Sovereign Host"
#2 Wyvernhand May 03, 2008 14:49:17	I don't like taking all 10 levels of RSoP. IMO, you get about all the good stuff by then (namely the empowered healing and the bonus domain). Maximized healing is worse than empowered, and sure you get both at level 10, at that point, max + empowered is only a small increase from plain empowered. Swap them out for levels of Sacred Exorcist, which progresses turning and casting and gives loads of nice features. Also, if you can't get the 6 levels of Contemplative to get the extra bonus domain, don't take more than 1. The other stuff isn't gonna be high enough to make a difference, and you already have Divine Health from RSoP. Get Divine Ward. This gives you the abilty to heal at range. Its a lot less feat intensive than Divine Metamagic:Reach and over time uses less turn attempts. Also, you don't need all of those healing feats. Imbued Healing and Augemented Healing together are kind of overkill. If you take something like Craft Wonderous Item, you'll get a lot of mileage out of it. Also, Divine Spell Power utilizes turning nicely. It can give you a nice bump to CL that makes you a better buffer as well as a better healer. If you max it out at +4, you add a whole nother bonus +1 to a Greater Magic Weapon or Magic Vestiment spell, and probably make for a stronger Mass Conviction or Mass Shield of Faith. For your bonus domain from RSoP, I'd take Purification. This nets you Recitation as a 3rd level spell, which is huge if you can get you hands on a Lesser Metamagic Rod of Quicken. Then you can pop off one of those AND a Rightous Wrath of the Faithful in the first round of a big combat and your allies will all get +5 hit and +2 damage and an extra attack if they worship your god. You also get the spell Fires of Purity, which is amazing for buffing melee types with lots of attacks, even monks are good with FoP on. Don't just focus on healing. You'll get bored and/or burn out. At medium to high levels, you can do some nasty battlefield control with Wall of Stone and a few other spells. Cutting of foes from their allies is a huge bonus. Also, you can get items like a Ring of Greater Counterspells and put a Divine Spellpowered Greater Dispel Magic in it, and have the spell Battle Magic Perception from Hero's of Battle up, giving you the ability to counter the first 2 spells cast against you in a given encounter without much difficulty and without taking an action. This is pretty strong, since most foes tend to throw their strongest spells first.
#3 Senevri May 03, 2008 15:22:21	Don't just focus on healing. You'll get bored and/or burn out. This. OTOH, twin heals should be nice, or even repeat heals.
#4 vhfforever May 03, 2008 15:26:39	The encounters your DM puts you through will always be able to deal out more damage than you can heal, and if you somehow manage to get ahead all of the bonus healing you dish out is wasted (unless you somehow find a way to turn over-heal into stackable temporary hit points). You /really/ don't need to be a totally focused healbot, or (like others said) you will get amazingly bored. Remember: The best way to save hit points is to kill enemies before they can hurt you.
#5 Endarire May 03, 2008 15:43:29	If you insist on being a purpose-built healer, seriously consider Quicken Spell and Divine Metamagic: Quicken. Otherwise, as others have said, focus on winning initiative and nullifying the opposition before it can touch you.
#6 atarvarno_dup May 03, 2008 15:55:21	Well yea, the thing I was kinda going for was making sure my heals count when I use them. The best thing about being good is not having to memorize many of the healing spells that I would be using and taking all 10 level in the RSoP means I don't have to roll my heals. Coupled with my favorite 2nd level spell "Status" I always know exactly how many hit points I have to cure that round. Yea I was hoping that the Imbued Healing with the Healing Domain would negate alot of the they were down 30 and I healed 40 stuff, cast a lower level heal and just give them some temporary hit points. How about any feats that improve Summoning spells and maybe a prestige class to replace the other 2 levels of Contemplative? Summoning is always fun and it allows me to focus on healing with my character while my minions distract and do damage. Also we aren't a heavy combat group, we maybe have 1 combat a session, it's mostly role-playing, so as long as the character is fun to role-play than combat is a side note. Just want the DM to have the hardest time possible in killing anyone.
#7 ninjarabbit May 03, 2008 16:08:42	Don't forget the PHB II cleric variant that lets you spontaneously cast spells from one domain. Chose the healing domain and you can spontaneously cast Heal as well as the cure spells.
#8 atarvarno_dup May 03, 2008 16:15:17	I'll definately have to see if he will let me switch that up, cause that's definately a better trade off. Losing Mass Cure Mod and Mass Cure Serious, to gain Heal, Regeneration, and Mass Heal. Thanks.
#9 Senevri May 03, 2008 16:35:59	I fail. Why didn't I mention Combat Medic?
#10 wwad_dup May 03, 2008 18:20:45	I liked playing a favored soul because I had Delay Death and Close Wounds as spontaneous spells (both are ranged). A straight cleric should try to get them as spontaneous so you can spend your slots on battle tactics and buffs. The other reason I liked my favored soul was sacred healing (with a high CHA) was a much more effective after-battle group heal than touch of healing--but both are good for saving spell slots. Crafting up a healing belt for every party member (and familiars that can talk) will make your whole team better. Wonderous Item is a great suggestion. If you don't find your teammates waiting for buffs or appreciating heals, take Leadership (again, works great with favored soul)--who better to have for a leader than someone who specializes in keeping you alive? Great deal for the cohort. Alternatively, take a ride skill. It's cheaper than the reach spell feat and basically does the same thing. You can move far, make a ride check, and still cast.
#11 craie May 04, 2008 14:01:49	Don't forget the Career Paths from Mongoose Publishing's Quintessential Cleric II. The Healer advantage Angel's Grace gives +2 HP per die for any Cure spell cast. They don't count against the maximum you can heal with a Cure spell, either! In my group's current game, it stacks with Augment Healing (just note it is die based and AH is spell level based!).
#12 Wyvernhand May 04, 2008 15:49:59	Don't forget the Career Paths from Mongoose Publishing's Quintessential Cleric II. The Healer advantage Angel's Grace gives +2 HP per die for any Cure spell cast. They don't count against the maximum you can heal with a Cure spell, either! In my group's current game, it stacks with Augment Healing (just note it is die based and AH is spell level based!). Wow....that's crap. AH is so much better, since when you get the 5th level spells, the die size resets to 1d8 mass cure light wounds and starts going back up again. That means that while AH is healing an extra 10+ hp to all party members, AG is only healing 2+. Both would be a waste of feats, and anyone who takes AG would be picking the clearly less optimal selection. One nice thing about AH...its actually 3 hp per spell level when you cast from your domain slot with RSoP empower, which is another thing you'll lose access to when you hit RSoP6 before you hit RSoP10. I honestly think that the last 5 levels of RSoP are a trap. You gain very few new useful features, and you lose access to on of the better features (empower) for the course of levels 6-9. Its all about the +CL part getting multiplied, which maximize doesn't do. Level 6 RSoP is actually a nerf, especially with the low dice heals like Mass Cure Light.
#13 craie May 05, 2008 10:00:53	Wow....that's crap. AH is so much better, since when you get the 5th level spells, the die size resets to 1d8 mass cure light wounds and starts going back up again. That means that while AH is healing an extra 10+ hp to all party members, AG is only healing 2+. Both would be a waste of feats, and anyone who takes AG would be picking the clearly less optimal selection. I'm guessing, then, that you don't have access to the book or have not read it recently. Angel's Grace is NOT a feat. The career paths in QCII merely require the PC to progress in listed skills, add to the listed ability score, or choose a listed feat (or domain) as you advance. (Most of the listed skills and feats are sound and reasonable choices you'd probably make anyway. My group made a few adjustments to augment the list -- mostly with feats that became available after QCII was published.) In return, you get an advantage and a disadvantage. There are several pairs listed to choose among. Since my DM agreed that the AH and AG could stack, it seemed a natural advantage to take. So, your example is actually going to be a +12 -- all of which can surpass the typical maximum (+25) to get you to a possible +37 on your d8 roll!
#14 ChristopherGroves May 05, 2008 10:40:53	I liked playing a favored soul because I had Delay Death and Close Wounds as spontaneous spells (both are ranged). A straight cleric should try to get them as spontaneous so you can spend your slots on battle tactics and buffs. The other reason I liked my favored soul was sacred healing (with a high CHA) was a much more effective after-battle group heal than touch of healing--but both are good for saving spell slots. Crafting up a healing belt for every party member (and familiars that can talk) will make your whole team better. Wonderous Item is a great suggestion. If you don't find your teammates waiting for buffs or appreciating heals, take Leadership (again, works great with favored soul)--who better to have for a leader than someone who specializes in keeping you alive? Great deal for the cohort. Alternatively, take a ride skill. It's cheaper than the reach spell feat and basically does the same thing. You can move far, make a ride check, and still cast. Sacred Healing? Did you take a dip there or something?
#15 eepop May 05, 2008 11:31:56	I am a huge fan of Healing Devotion from Complete Champion. Give up turn attempts to get enough uses so that you can give everyone in your group a use of the ability. They can then use it when 1)They are taking absurd amounts of damage. 2)They are taking some damage, but less than someone else is and you won't be able to use your action healing them because you will be more occupied healing the person in greater danger. 3)You are incapacitated.
#16 tweedledope May 05, 2008 11:36:29	Don't forget the PHB II cleric variant that lets you spontaneously cast spells from one domain. Chose the healing domain and you can spontaneously cast Heal as well as the cure spells. +1 Read the RSoP abilities. The Empower/Maximize only works on your DOMAIN spells. VERY important little tidbit there. With the Domain Spontaneity you will be able to convert all of your spells into your Healing domain spells and thus, always maximize the empower/maximizeness of the RSoP.
#17 Wyvernhand May 05, 2008 11:42:39	Hmmm, that should go into the Book of Heavily Debated Topics, because I have never ever seen a conclusive arguement 1 way or another. One side says it works because you are casting a "domain spell" the other says it doesn't because you aren't casting from a "domain slot". po tay to/po tah to Ask your DM, YMMV.
#18 tweedledope May 05, 2008 11:44:44	Hmmm, that should go into the Book of Heavily Debated Topics, because I have never ever seen a conclusive arguement 1 way or another. One side says it works because you are casting a "domain spell" the other says it doesn't because you aren't casting from a "domain slot". po tay to/po tah to Ask your DM, YMMV. I would agree but, in the sense of conservatism I would take domain spontaneity just in case.
#19 Wyvernhand May 05, 2008 11:48:43	I would agree but, in the sense of conservatism I would take domain spontaneity just in case. Same issue. The spell didn't come from a domain slot, but is still cast as a domain spell. The 2 features are redundantly redundant, except that one requires a feat and a turn attempt to use, and the other forces you to give up a class feature.
#20 warningfire May 05, 2008 12:49:11	What's wrong with a favored soul for healing? Don't you get more spells which = more heals? or is turning just that good? I had a kobold favored soul 10 stormlord 10. He was a healbot and flanker pretty much. I had 10 wisdom and all charisma so I didn't add wisdom to spell dcs. I didn't have any feats but busting out multiple "heal spells" was pretty nice once I got to level 13.
#21 phaedrusxy May 05, 2008 12:54:16	This gives me a caster level of 25 when casting Healing Domain spells, at the moment. Not really looking for more caster level, just better heals, or things to stack on my heals. I was thinking of picking of Reach Spell, and then Divine Metamagic (Reach) so I can stand back out of combat. Race is a Dwarf, Setting is Eberron, Deity is "The Sovereign Host" You might consider a couple of Heirophant levels at the end, for Divine Reach and Faith Healing (get the rest of your party to be the same alignment as you).
#22 warningfire May 05, 2008 13:01:11	Combat medic class is good. you get sanctuary with every heal or temporary hp added. I'd consider it. -you also get tumble as a class skill.
#23 warningfire May 05, 2008 13:29:17	Imbued Healing Touch of Healing I don't have complete champion. what do these feats do?
#24 eepop May 05, 2008 15:51:45	Imbued Healing gives little "extra" effects when you heal someone. Touch of Healing lets you heal people a decent amount by touch, but only when they are below half hp. Healing Devotion can be activated as an immediate action to give a small amount of fast healing. For anything more specific, you'll need to get the book.
#25 elohimgolgatha May 13, 2008 12:18:53	If you're going for a purely focussed healer I might suggest the Healer class out of the Miniatures Handbook... Their Healing Hands ability allows you to add your Cha bonus to every target of every Healing spell you cast. I went with 7 levels of Healer for the 1/day affliction removal 8th isnt worth the trouble to get a Unicorn Companion but up until that point it's very buff. I took Catfolk as my race just for the bonus to Cha (which seems sadly rare among the races) Starting with an 18 Cha and adding 2 for Catfolk... 1 Catfolk - Sacred Vow 2 Healer 3 Healer - Vow of Non-violence 4 Healer - +1 Cha 5 Healer 6 Healer - Vow of Peace 7 Healer 8 Healer - +1 Cha 9 Combat Medic - Augment Healing 10 Combat Medic 11 Combat Medic 12 Combat Medic - +1 Cha - Spontaneous Healing 13 Combat Medic 14 Contemplative 15 Contemplative - Imbued Healing 16 Contemplative - +1 Cha 17 Contemplative 18 Contemplative - Magic of the Land 19 Contemplative 20 Heirophant (Faith Healer) And there you have it. 21-24 would go well with more levels of Heirophant for Divine Reach and Spell Power. The Vow of Peace I took for the extra AC and that wonderful 'Calm Emotions' aura that it gives. Augment Healing and Magic of the land stack if you're in the right circumstances and can make a Knowledge: Nature check. Imbued Healing is FTW just because all of those temp HP stack for one hour, if I'm reading it right. So... at 20th level... Your Cha should be 24 naturally. Add on a +6 Inherent bonus and a +6 Cloak and Mass Heal! away... 250HP +Cha bonus (13) +2xSpell level (16-18) +2xSpell Level (16-18) +20 Temp HP = between 315 and 319 HP for every single party member within the range of the spell. Let's see your GM crush that. Alternately: Oh noes! Your champion, Sir Fighter, is getting crushed! Let's toss out a Close Wounds as a 3rd level spell in the middle of Dastardly Villain's attack set... 2d4+5 (Lets call it Maximized 'cause Sir Fighter is the same alignment) = 13 +Cha Bonus (13) +2xSpell Level (6) +2x Spell Level (6) +20 Temp HP = 58 HP for Sir Fighter as an Immediate Action... for a third level spell...
#26 ieniemienie May 13, 2008 12:26:40	where do you get a +6 inherent bonus? last time i checked it capped at +5
#27 Wyvernhand May 13, 2008 12:35:32	If you're going for a purely focussed healer I might suggest the Healer class out of the Miniatures Handbook... Ew ew ew ew ew...Don't ever play a Healer from MH...Horrible class, and not even the best at what its supposed to do. A Cleric6/RSoP5/SE9 would be better than that in almost every circumstance. Not only can he heal as well, but he can do other things, like counterspell, battlefield control, debuff, or just win with Holy Word. A healer is so pigeon holed into that role that you can't ever do anything else. Its miserable. If I wanted to play a character who sits there and watches their status spell (which I don't think the Healer even has on its list) for anyone's hp to dip, I'll log on and play WoW. I'd rather have the option to toss up a Wall of Stone to provide cover for my allies, or cast Battle Magic Perception to counter an incoming Meteor Swarm. Cast Hero's Feast and Greater Magic Weapon/Magic Vestaments in the morning to buff my BDF, and otherwise play a much more dynamic character than a Healer. Ew ew ew ew... EDIT: And Vow of Peace screws your party just as much as the enemy....its total crap from the book Complete Crap, printed right between the Complete Warrior Samuri and Ranger....
#28 chibishuffle May 13, 2008 12:57:11	I'd talk with your DM about allowing some FR stuff perhaps with a change of flavor to the host. There is a feat in players guide to faerun called initiate of Illmater its on page 80. In essence it turns excess healing into temp HP and also provides other goodies. I know your in Eberron and serving the host but talk to your DM its worth a shot.
#29 zaloth May 13, 2008 13:24:29	Don't forget the PHB II cleric variant that lets you spontaneously cast spells from one domain. Chose the healing domain and you can spontaneously cast Heal as well as the cure spells. IIRC, you don't even need to take the healing domain as the spontaneous domain variant allows you to prepare cure spells in the chosen domain's spell slots. I'm a big fan of taking a domain that has one or more of the restoration line with other goodies. Renewal is my current fave, it offers lesser restoration, remove disease, and greater restoration as well as the domain granted ability to 1/day receive 1d8 + cha mod hit points if you fall below 0 hp. Quite handy for a healing type to be able to pop up after near death to keep himself and others going.
#30 elohimgolgatha May 13, 2008 14:18:57	where do you get a +6 inherent bonus? last time i checked it capped at +5 My apologies, I forgot my cap on inherent bonus. Ew ew ew ew... EDIT: And Vow of Peace screws your party just as much as the enemy....its total crap from the book Complete Crap, printed right between the Complete Warrior Samuri and Ranger.... The Healer class is perfectly good for what it was designed for. And this thread was about an Ultimate Healer, not Ultimate Buffist. Also, I've been using the Vow of peace for the last 13 levels to fairly good effect. If it's screwing your party then you're doing it wrong.
#31 Wyvernhand May 13, 2008 14:36:44	The Healer class is perfectly good for what it was designed for. And this thread was about an Ultimate Healer, not Ultimate Buffist. No its not. They can't spontaneously convert spells to heals, at least not without levels in Combat Medic. That means if you took a Neutralize Poison, you can't get HP out of it. Thats just one reason. Its really not good. Ask just about anyone else on this boards. There have been numerous attempts to make it viable, and most involve taking as few levels as possible. Its that bad. Your build isn't so bad, but it would probably be better all around with Cleric as a base rather than Healer. Also, I've been using the Vow of peace for the last 13 levels to fairly good effect. If it's screwing your party then you're doing it wrong. And if you aren't screwing your party, you are doing it wrong. Read all the sections about the stacking penalties your allies take for killing foes (almost a given at meduim-high levels where players are hitting for 40-50+ damage per hit. -10 buffer isn't very big). Read the part about completely losing the ability if anyone under the effect of any of your spells or abilities dies. Read the parts about being responsible for the violent death of others through knowledgeable neglegence. Basically, there is no way to gain advantage, combat or otherwise, from that feat without losing it, or annoying the hell out of your party by imposing a bunch of penalties on them. Its counterproductive to 99% of the goal of D&D (kill things and take their stuff). The parts it does contribute to are roleplayable without taking a feat with wonky mechanics. This is from the opinion of a dedicated roleplayer/rollplayer/COer. Its bad...very bad.
#32 nobodez_here May 13, 2008 15:28:31	What Ultimate Healer doesn't take a dip level in bard nowadays? What with a Healing Hymn? At 20th level you're looking at another +23 to your conjuration (healing) spells. Combine that with a RSoP 5, and it's not a +34. Put in MotL and AH, and you're looking at a very large amount of healing in a very short amount of time. All my bards have HH, and even when brought together with a sub-par heal-bot, they boost the healing at or above the level of damage. Plus, if the bard and cleric are separate, then you've also go the Inspire Courage to increase the damage output.