Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Midnight_v Mar 21, 2008 11:49:35	(Fragment from the lost text of the Archmagus Tsuyoshikentsu "The Tao of Optimization") A Barbarian must Be satisfied. He seems boring to others, But he has his great secret. That is, He can keep up with ToB classes In raw damage. Though he is Often a dip class, "I attack again" has its merits! [CENTER]Table of contents 1.Essential Abilities. CLass Features. BARBARIC RACES 2. Feats. Skills + Skill Tricks. Alternate Class Features/Substitution Levels 3. Prestige Classes. Gear Selections. 4. To be or not to be (a frenzied berserker) + Psudeo-Barbarians 5. Styles, Tricks, Accumulated Builds Reserved For Introduction[/CENTER]
#2 Midnight_v Mar 21, 2008 11:50:13	Basic Stats: Full Base Attack Bonus d12 Hit Die Good Fortitude 4+int skill points Essential Abilities: Barbarian abilities can be Str, Con, Dex. Alternatively use Str, Dex, Wis in the case of the glass cannons Strength: Generally melee combat relies heavily on strength. From here flows power Dexterity: this is as valid as Con in the "charge" builds which there are many of. Futher being a class that is limited to medium armor in the first few levels (before you can afford all the +1's the extra ac really helps Constitution: [b] Traditional toughen up, have a longer rage, high fort all good. [/b] "Show me someone that doesn't love a barbarian with a maxed out con and I'll eat my hat." "Had to eat my hat" Intelligence: I actually have illiteracy as a class ablitiy. Wisdom: Listen is one of your class skills, Wizards( the dangerous ones) will look at you and say "save or die" or "kill your friends" Remember that scene in Conan "Who am I if not your father?" Best to go ahead and make that will save. Note that Steadfast Determination can help with Will saves. Charisma: uhm... at least 35% of all barbarians are Orcs. CLASS FEATURES "It' is not enough that I should succeed but that everyone esle must fail!" -Ghengis Khan Show Rage Which is makes you the Barbarian. +4 to strength +4 Con -2 AC +2 to will saves Greater rage: +6 Str +6 Con -2 AC +3 to will saves (level 11) Mighty Rage: +8 Str +8con -2 AC +4 on will saves (Capstone ability) Fast Movement Which is a really, Really good ability, just not as good as pounce as it turns out. Uncanny Dodge Retains your Dex while flatfooted which prevents all kinds of bad things. Scales with your barbarian level and become Improved Uncanny Dodge at 5th. Trapsense Seriously, weak, someone might disagree but I belive if you can find a better use for this slot, TRADE IT OUT! Traps requiring a reflex save typically aren't that dangerous Damage Reduction This is a class feature that was overrated when the game was designed and thus you never get enough of it to be competative at the levels where it would matter. Dr5/- is not cutting it at level 20. Indomitable will I like this ablility I honestly do it will keep you from nuking the party sometimes... I aslo think that if you could trade this for something and use better precautions it would be good as well. LEVEL 14 Tireless Rage which is kind of a non power if you've made it to LVL 17 the the Drawback of rage wasn't that great a drawback was it? Something the design team added for completeness...
#3 Midnight_v Mar 21, 2008 11:51:23	FEATS Show Combat Brute: (CW pg.110) Tactical: easy entry because it doesn't ask you do do anything you weren't already doing provides 3 abilities. All in all useful especially if you don't have access to the Lion totem Variant from the complete champion. Advacing blows is meh, but if you've built a serious "Knockback" based build might get a little work out of this. Sundering cleave is really good if you want to destroy that $100,000 staff the BBEG is holding. The star of this little trio is Momentum swing which is increases the multiplyer of your power attack the second round after a charge. Works well with many many things Combat expertise: You wanna dance? There are classes better suited to it. Plus int is really a dumpstat. Destructive Rage: While raging, you gain a +8 bonus on any Strength checks you make to break open doors or break inanimate, immobile objects. Extended Rage : Each of your rages lasts an additional 5 rounds beyond its normal length. Special: You can take this feat multiple times, and the additional rounds stack. Extra Rage : You rage two more times per day than you otherwise could. Special: You can take this feat multiple times, gaining two additional rages per day each time. Evasive Reflexes: There is a use for this if chained correctly Improved Bullrush: Usefull if you're going to attempt to follow the chain. Instantaneous Rage : Your rage begins at any time you wish, even when it's your turn or when you're surprised. you can activate your rage in response to another's action after learning the result but before it takes effect. Thus, you can gain the benefits of rage in time to prevent or ameliorate an undesirable event. Normal: You enter a rage only during your turn.See combos. Intimidating Rage: When entering a rage, you designate a single foe within 30 feet of you can attempt to demoralize as a free actionor become shaken for as long as you continue to rage. see combos. Karmic Strike: This is more for the psedo-barbarian fighter/charger, but if you're a glass cannon you can single handedly kill most BBEG's with this after a charge. unfortunately it wants combat expertise. Knockbackprereqs: Improved bullrush, power attack, Large or Powerful build Succesful powerattacks initiate a bullrush with Pa bonus on strength roll. See combos. Leapattack: A jump check to do double my power attack damage(after all other calculations)? Does this awsomeness come with a shake? Show If you cover at least 10 feet of horizontal distance with your jump, and you end your jump in a square from which you threaten your target, you deal +100% the normal bonus damage from your use of the Power Attack feat.
#4 Midnight_v Mar 21, 2008 11:52:34	LIFE ... DEATH.... SAME.... -Wei Yan PRESTIGE CLASSES Show Bear Warrior (CW pg16): per day rage out as a bear The strength bonuses are pretty amazing and has made some amazing builds (I'll post the Bear of the North If I can find it) Black Blood Cultist (CoR pg44) Shakuum's infamous "The Black Octopus" used this PRC to some great effect. The level 8 savage grapple makes this the real Reaping Mauler. Mix with bearwarrior or as mentioned in shakums thread primeval. Champion of Gwynharwyf (BoED pg) Dwarven Battlerager Unfortunately I finally found the prc for this class and it is a poor excuse for those souls who actually want to play something like what Thibbledorf Pwent is in the Salvatore stories... I'll tell you what its sooo bad I'll eventually make a build for what they're like in the stories... this Prc is the D&D equivalent of videogame themed movies. Frenzied Berserker: Has it's own section below. The GREAT DEBATE Frostrager Link There are many fans of this prestige class... I personally am not one but it is a natural attack/grapple class that gives you cold based damage. Unfortunately more creatures in D&D have an immuity/resistance to cold than any other element. Eye of Gruumsh(CW pg.32 ) Are you an ORC BARBARIAN? Do not serve Gruumsh, despite all the good press he gets. Worship Ilneval instead... because honestly there are simply easier ways to aquire blindsight than plucking out ones own eye. Primeval Impressive ability gains with interesting shape changing abilities. However it is severely limited times per day. Ragemage One of the worst classes... this is the fear of creating a gish. You manage to become something who is good at neither fighting, nor spell casting. Runescarred Berserker (UE) This is better on the gish scale. The spell list gained from this class is small ,but powerful, allowing you to cast AMF or Heal. Totem Rager(MoI) There are people running around the boards making incredible builds using incarnum. That is not the norm however. If you weild the book of incarnum like an anime guy wields an oversized weapon then you'll know if this Prc is for you. If your not one of those guys... it'll only make your head hurt.
#5 Midnight_v Mar 21, 2008 11:53:42	To be or not to be (a frenzied berserker)... The Frenzied Berserker. Easily, the most loved, hated, and debated prestige class ever. Arguably one the strongest melee Prcs in existance. Feats Geared towards controling a FB Show Cumberous Will Steadfast determination Indomitable Will
#6 Midnight_v Mar 21, 2008 11:55:07	Knockback + Rampaging bullrush + Leap attack + Power attack + Shocktrooper + 3 mountains style: huge returns for the glass cannon in you. Imperious Command + Instaneous Rage + Intimidating rage (optional + Skill Trick never outnumbered) : This combo I cannot say enough about. Its the barbarian equivalent to a mage with celerity. You basically can cut off someones action and shut them down for a round making them drop what they were doing and well (die to your charge) add never outnumbered and charge the opposing force, leap attack into the midst of them then rage while mid-air. Potentially cowering thier whole team. BUILDS: Exalted Barbarian by Dictum Mortum Human Barbarian 6/Champion of Gwynharwyf 10/Barbarian 4 Basically, gets everything a normal barbarian 20 receives and spells, divine grace, immunities and elemental resistances. Code: Barbarian 1 Power Attack, Righteous Wrath Barbarian 2 Barbarian 3 Knight of Stars Barbarian 4 Barbarian 5 Barbarian 6 Imperious Command Champion 1 Champion 2 Champion 3 Intimidating Rage Champion 4 Champion 5 Champion 6 Instantaneous Rage Champion 7 Champion 8 Champion 9 Open Champion 10 Barbarian 7 Barbarian 8 Open Barbarian 9 Barbarian 10With 32 pb, you can start with 15/10/14/10/14/15, advancing strength at all levels. Alternative Class Features: Whirling Frenzy Trapkiller Lion totem barbarian Skilled City Dweller (tumble/ride, gather information/handle animal). Skills: Max intimidate, survival, tumble, gather information, listen.
#7 fwib Mar 21, 2008 12:03:02	Well, I hope this ends up being interesting. [edit] Hooray! Barbarians!
#8 hsien Mar 21, 2008 12:08:23	I have serious reservations about that....
#9 Midnight_v Mar 21, 2008 12:10:14	Yeah you pretty much have to do it this way or people will start adding thier input before its even finished.... Aparently before they even know what it is too;)
#10 Midnight_v Mar 21, 2008 21:17:26	edit.
#11 ninjarabbit Mar 21, 2008 22:07:35	No love for Steadfast Determination? It turns wis into a dump stat and you should never fail a fort save again. Yeah it requires endurance but at least endurance is a common prerequisite for many PrCs such as deepwarden and horizon walker.
#12 Midnight_v Mar 21, 2008 22:22:43	Oversight! You got it, Ninjarabbit, but I'm not nearly done yet Barbarian is one of my favorite classes. i'm really sad about it not being in 4.0 book 1 It's going into the frenzied berserker area also though since its a big part of berserker debates.
#13 marcb Mar 22, 2008 7:39:42	What about Combat Brute for extra Power Attack damage? I think this goes well with storm trooper and leap attack.
#14 Midnight_v Mar 22, 2008 7:48:37	What about Combat Brute for extra Power Attack damage? I think this goes well with storm trooper and leap attack. Right. Hmm... I think I'm going to add this now and redo the feat section for ease of reference. Maybe a breakdown into the type of feat tree something belongs to. Okay though, I'll add it now. M.
#15 surreal Mar 22, 2008 14:37:42	Didn't Zendu start a barbarian handbook just the other day? edit: [thread=1006520]Barbarian Handbook[/thread]
#16 zendu Mar 22, 2008 16:00:57	I have no problems merging books. It's stupid to have 2 of the same thing. I feel that Strength should be marked blue, its really the primary stat for barbs. Well that or con. Steadfast Determination makes wisdom fairly redundant. You never mention Whisper Gnome (whoops either did I) Personally, I've always felt they were LA +1
#17 Midnight_v Mar 22, 2008 17:23:19	I have no problems merging books. It's stupid to have 2 of the same thing. I feel that Strength should be marked blue, its really the primary stat for barbs. Well that or con. Steadfast Determination makes wisdom fairly redundant. You never mention Whisper Gnome (whoops either did I) Personally, I've always felt they were LA +1 Cool cool... I just put your name at the top. I'll pm you.
#18 jameswilliamogle Mar 22, 2008 17:46:10	I think DR is better than most optimizers think... I definitely wouldn't make it a "red" ability. We have to consider the number of attacks we are taking per round at higher levels. Whats worse, those attacks aren't iterative, but rather natural, so are at a flat -5 to hit instead of our -5/-10/-15, and god forbid they have multi-attack. I agree it sucks against many "hit once hit hard" monsters like elementals and golems, but against anything else having DR 3 / F.U. is going to save 9-15 points per round. I don't think its worth chasing after, but I do think a feat for another 2 DR is worth it (for example, Roll-With-It), particularly if the Barbarian already has his combat-feats taken care of.
#19 zendu Mar 22, 2008 18:50:25	Started Consolidating with mine, comments are very welcome. I personally agree about the damage reduction, I think its easy to forget how much it adds up agasint minor opponents. That said, if damage reduction is your thing, why not go mineral warrior and Berserker Strength so you get 12/adamantine? (my reading, text is a little wonky)
#20 sir_argenon Mar 22, 2008 19:07:56	on frenzied berzerker, take a 1 level dip into warblade somewhere after 5th level to get the iron heart surge boost, and you can snap yourself out of your frenzy instantly without a save, anytime you wish :D
#21 Dictum_Mortuum Mar 22, 2008 19:33:47	Human Barbarian 6/Champion of Gwynharwyf 10/Barbarian 4 Basically, gets everything a normal barbarian 20 receives and spells, divine grace, immunities and elemental resistances.
#22 fwib Mar 22, 2008 19:51:12	The latest version of Half-Ogre is in Races of Destiny, and has +2 LA, not +1 LA as in Savage Species
#23 zendu Mar 22, 2008 21:15:23	on frenzied berzerker, take a 1 level dip into warblade somewhere after 5th level to get the iron heart surge boost, and you can snap yourself out of your frenzy instantly without a save, anytime you wish You can actually get IHS with 2 feats. However I disagree that you could use it to break frenzy by RAW, because the will save is for you to have the presence of mind to break it, IHS says 'harmful' effect, and in frenzy, I don't see frenzy as harmful. In fact, I would argue you would have to use it to break a calm emotions spell.
#24 vulcanus Mar 22, 2008 22:02:29	So I'm making a 5th level Character soon: Human Barbarian 3/Fighter 2 Str: 18 (+1 at level 4) Dex: 16 Con: 18 Int: 13 Wis: 7 Cha: 14 (Rolls: 18, 17, 16, 14, 13, 7) Feats(3+2 fighter): Power Attack, Cleave, Intimidating Rage, Leap Attack, Improved Bull Rush [Kind of a technicality that my DM might realize: Taking Leap attack when I am level five isn't possible since it isn't a fighter Bonus feat, is it? And waiting until 6 isn't an option since that is reserved for Shock Trooper, if I do that than I would have to wait to take one at level 9, assuming I go into FB, which I am. I also need to work in Destructive rage(so useless) somehow.] Skills: Max intimidate, jump, listen Not sure what to do with Items just yet.
#25 Krusk Mar 22, 2008 23:25:13	You left out one of the ebst substitution levels around. (and even included the levels after it) Complete champion lion totem (and the others) gives pounce at level 1 instead of fast movement.
#26 vulcanus Mar 23, 2008 0:35:27	You left out one of the ebst substitution levels around. (and even included the levels after it) Complete champion lion totem (and the others) gives pounce at level 1 instead of fast movement. Does lion totem do anything else but that? Just so my DM knows.
#27 aftercrescent Mar 23, 2008 1:08:58	Does lion totem do anything else but that? Just so my DM knows. There are 2 lion totems, one in UA and one in CC, the one in CC trades fast movement for pounce at first level. There are additional changes at later levels, but pounce is the only lion one worth it, IMO.
#28 eldariel Mar 23, 2008 6:03:00	You may wish to add the 'Twisted Charge'-skilltrick to that list; being able to turn once in a Charge is friggin' awesome. Also, as a bonus for Runescarred Berserker, add spells like Air Walk, Freedom of Movement, Divine Favor, See Invisibility, Improved Invisibility and even True Strike to the list; RSB's spell list is one of the best in the game. Very few weak spells and a crapton of awesome ones, especially ones covering common combatant weaknesses. I'll try and post some Power Tripper RSB (using Snow Tiger Berserker>Improved Trip) that's also the tracker and trapfinder some time soon (in other words, I'll try to make a Glass Cannon/Tank/Skill Monkey (tracker/trapfinder/intimidator)/Divine Caster-Barbarian, just 'cause it's possible).
#29 fwib Mar 23, 2008 8:55:03	Another problem with switching off Frenzied Berserker's frenzy is that you "must attack those who you perceive as foes to the best of your ability" and switching off your frenzy would generally be detrimental to your best ability of attacking. Admittedly, it does allow you to make will saves to end it voluntarily as free actions, but using up a whole standard action....?
#30 sir_argenon Mar 23, 2008 11:20:19	You can actually get IHS with 2 feats. However I disagree that you could use it to break frenzy by RAW, because the will save is for you to have the presence of mind to break it, IHS says 'harmful' effect, and in frenzy, I don't see frenzy as harmful. In fact, I would argue you would have to use it to break a calm emotions spell. thats not true at all. IHS says: By drawing on your mental strength and physical fortitude, you break free of a debilitating state that might otherwise defeat you. Your fighting spirit, dedication, and training allow you to overcome almost anything to defeat your enemies. When you use this maneuver, select one spell, effect, or other condition currently affecting you and with a duration of 1 or more rounds. That effect ends immediately. You also surge with confidence and vengeance against your enemies, gaining a +2 morale bonus on attack rolls until the end of your next turn. my bolding. as you can see, it mentions nothing about harmful. by RAW as far as i'm concerned, IHS is the perfect counter for frenzy gone bad.
#31 jaerad Mar 23, 2008 17:54:12	Lawls... the real Battlerager is in Races of Fayrum. I think it sucks, but it's certainly better than a bunch of crazy homebrew restrictions. I don't get the appeal of Bear Warrior. It replaces your rage/frenzy bonuses. Sure, at ECL 17 you get +20 STR - but that's about all the class features. Even then, compare a ECL 8 BW (Barb 5/Fighter 2/BW 1) to a Goliath FB (Barb 4/F 2/FB 1) - +8 STR vs +12, and you can stack the Rage spell for +14. ECL 13 BW +16, but by then you could easy dip for another Rage-esque ability for +18. Or wait for ECL 15 (Barb 4/Fighter 2/FB 8) and get Greater Frenzy, or B 11/F 2/FB 1 for Greater Rage. Not to mention all the class abilities you can be picking up that blow Scent completely out of the water.* Need a section on multiclassing. Fighter, Feat Rogue, Druid variants, the beloved Cleric dip, etc. *I also think that +4 STR when you're already buffed to +20 to 30.. not that impressive. I'd rather have feats/maneuvers to capitalize on a high STR, than a few more bonus points. Furthermore, this same advice holds for Whirling Frenzy and other abilities that won't stack with Rage-likes. *EDIT by RAW as far as i'm concerned, IHS is the perfect counter for frenzy gone bad. +1, should be listed with Steadfast Determination/Cumbrous Will.
#32 ninjarabbit Mar 23, 2008 17:59:02	I think a section should be devoted to the half orc paragon. While technically not a barbarian it does allow for lawful characters to rage so you can have barbarian-like builds with classes that are normally lawful. One build is halforcparagon3/paladin17 with the Races of Destiny racial subsitution for half orc paladins that trades smite for an ability similar to rage in righteous fury. However righteous fury does stack with rage so you can do both and do massive damage in melee.
#33 jameswilliamogle Mar 23, 2008 18:02:33	Druidic Avenger, too, if we are going to list that.
#34 necroramo Mar 23, 2008 18:29:02	Does the Primeval from Frostburn have a place here? It's not a strictly barbarian class, but it's basically the Bear Warrior only better and Barbarian seems like a really good entry
#35 eldariel Mar 23, 2008 18:51:25	Alright, I'll give teh multithreat Barb a go: Human Barbarian 7/Crusader 1/Fighter 1/Ranger 2/Runescarred Berserker 9 - starting with Ranger-level for some skillpoints and taking the second one somewhere down the road; mostly they just boost Spot (and allow picking an additional skill...oh, and make you lite-****ing-rate). 32pb: 15/14/16/10/14/8 Ranger 1: Track, Iron Will, Survivor - Arcane Hunter, Spiritual Connection, Skilled City-Dweller (Tumble, Gather Information) Barbarian 1: Whirling Frenzy 1/day, Lion-Totem Barbarian, Skilled City-Dweller (Tumble, Gather Information) Barbarian 2: Snow Tiger Berserker - Uncanny Dodge Barbarian 3: Trapkiller (ACF) Ranger 2: Power Attack (Strong-Arm Style) Barbarian 4: Combat Reflexes - Whirling Frenzy 2/day Fighter 1: Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Spiked Chain, Improved Trip - Hit'n'Run, Exoticist Runescarred Berserker 1: Scribe Runescar Crusader 1: Martial Stance: Thicket of Blades Runescarred Berserker 2: Whirling Frenzy 3/day Runescarred Berserker 3: Ritual Scarring +1 Runescarred Berserker 4: Robilar's Gambit - Spawn of Frost, Damage Reduction 1/- Runescarred Berserker 5: Whirling Frenzy 4/day Runescarred Berserker 6: Ritual Scarring +2 Runescarred Berserker 7: Leap Attack - Damage Reduction 2/-, Whirling Frenzy 5/day Runescarred Berserker 8: Greater Frenzy Runescarred Berserker 9: Ritual Scarring +3, Whirling Frenzy 6/day Barbarian 5: Improved Bull Rush, Shock Trooper (replacing Improved Uncanny Dodge) Barbarian 6: Barbarian 7: Street Fighter - Increased Threat Range on Charge Very much feat-starved as always, but does a fine job as a trapfinder and Tracker while also having a good control over an area and dealing decent damage, especially towards the end (although Frenzy + Lion-totem Charges are not to be underestimated either, especially with THF and Power Attack). I suppose Improved Trip could be Standstill, but I wanted to continue making use of the prerequisite feats and thus get the Trip-modifier up there. Unfortunately, the character takes up until Level 17 to actually get Anti-Magic Field, which is a bummer, but at least he does get to use Ranger-wands including the almighty Wand of Lesser Vigor, so he does decently in that regard. Since level 10 of Runescarred Berserker adds no spells to cast, just spells known, I figured it's quite weak; Heal is a great spell, but generally you'd want it cast at max. CL at that point, especially with 16 Con, so I suppose you're better off hitting things than Healing anyways. And well, having too few Anti-Magic Fields is always an issue. The Intimidates won't be too impressive especially since this isn't an Intimidating-focused build, but it'll give it some social prowess as ranks make up for the lack of stats. Gather Information can be rather high too if one considers ~10 ranks in Tumble sufficient. Of course, Survival (which is handily boosted by Survivor) is the main skill for finding Traps and Tracking, so it's pretty high. The character should have highish Listen, Spot, Survival, Tumble and Intimidate and that should carry one through most of the levels. Ideally this guy sits at the frontline as the forward sentry, seeking for traps and looking for threats, takes hits and dishes out more than his share and tosses an AMF or similar spell when necessary. Oh, and heals the party. On level 18 he finally gets the 'Tank my AC, full Frenzied attack your face'-routine. Note, I didn't pick Mage Slayer because of AMF and the fact that Runescars already have low CLs. This guy also has high saves all around with Dex being decent for Ref (and Whirling Frenzy boosting it), Wis being decent for Will (and Iron Will boosting it) and Fort just being Fort. Also, the AC is surprisingly good with Whirling Frenzy, Ritual Scarring and company boosting it while maintaining the ability to wear Mithril Breastplate. Basically, this is a guy that can dodge should need be. I sort of want to play something of the sort in future. Oh yeah, I forgot, he has Crusader-maneuvers too. But those are fairly trivial as you won't be using the most; I suppose you can pick up White Raven Tactics to be way more useful in combat, and something that allows charging without AoOs. And probably Martial Spirit, Leading the Charge or Bolstering Voice; being useful has never hurt anyone. Oh yeah, with the Drow ACF, you can win Initiative pretty often. Some degree of Hide could be nice for Surprise Action Charge+Pounce Your Face, but that would be quite an investment skillwise. Still, win Initiative and Pounce their face is always a good tactic. It's actually possible to move the battlefield control elements down the wire, focusing more on charging early on to focus more on damage with battlefield control as an afterthought.
#36 zendu Mar 24, 2008 1:18:32	as you can see, it mentions nothing about harmful. by RAW as far as i'm concerned, IHS is the perfect counter for frenzy gone bad. By drawing on your mental strength and physical fortitude, you break free of a debilitating state that might otherwise defeat you. I understand its flavor text, but its in there. I think the real fault with this is the justification of using a standard action to not attack.
#37 Midnight_v Mar 24, 2008 8:35:45	I understand its flavor text, but its in there. I think the real fault with this is the justification of using a standard action to not attack. I'm with Zendu... it violate the kill your friends to the best of your ability part of FB. Using free actions maybe but not a round you could spend attacking. Also ... Thats why the FB is "THE GREAT DEBATE" people can't NOT argue about it a what it means so I'm glad that I put that section there. I'm also glad that i've discovered while writing this book that it is NOT the only barbarian prestige class. Much potential an much of it undiscussed, it makes me feel like this work is worthwhile. The production of the book will slow, but continue throughout the week. and increase dramatically on thusday through sunday. Please continue to post your barbarian builds and advice. We are working dilligently to make this the best handbook on the boards. Your Fellow Optimizers. Zendu and Midnight.
#38 zendu Mar 24, 2008 9:33:22	Ya i'll add a blurb about primeval sometime today, the only disadvantage to the class is that t has its own times per day progression.
#39 arz Mar 24, 2008 10:46:36	You forgot Eye of Gruumsh. Gets you rage and a +4 to your str @ 2nd lvl. Funny, combines well w/ rage mage and its stackable spell rage. Still bad but at least you are breaking orcish conventions.
#40 eldariel Mar 24, 2008 11:42:56	That reminded me: Link Short Guide to Grappling; Barbarians are pretty much the only viable PC Grapplers out of noncasters anyways, and that guide has quite a few bits of good advice on Barbarian, so I think it'd be a valuable link for this Handbook.
#41 zendu Mar 24, 2008 12:03:00	I'm looking at primeval and wondering..... if you choose your animal to be a bear, does the bonuses stack with bear warrior? My god thats sick, and I think it does by RAW
#42 Midnight_v Mar 24, 2008 21:47:49	I'm looking at primeval and wondering..... if you choose your animal to be a bear, does the bonuses stack with bear warrior? My god thats sick, and I think it does by RAW Yeah it does... I'm not sure how the forms stack. I personally like bear warrior,(For entry into warshaper 4 for every natural attack (into) black blood cultist for savage grapple.... thats 13 levels spent though.
#43 Krusk Mar 24, 2008 22:52:03	Really guys, you are going to leave the complete champion lion totem pounce barbarian off of this handbook? As far as I'm concerned this is the core ability, with fast movement as the alternate. -got it, oops
#44 zendu Mar 24, 2008 23:09:05	Help the thread! Any unique items you know of for barbs? No posying amulet of natural armor etc etc. I'm currently thinking of adding: Gauntlets of War (CC 139, 4,000 gp) +1 damage to melee attacks, +3 if you worship a deity with access to the War domain. Steadfast Boots (MiC, 1400 gp) +4 bonus to avoid bull rush, trip, or overrun attacks. Any two-handed weapon you carry is treated as if readied against any creature that charges you. [This would be good in a tank build] Tooth of Savnok (Tome of Magic, 2000 gp) Move at your normal speed even when wearing medium or heavy armor or when carrying a medium or heavy load. Added Martial Study edited leap attack added Primeval added 2 skill tricks linked the grapple thread edited gear a bit, added weapons Lion totem is and has been in. Should we organize diffrently? eye of gruumsh is in.
#45 Krusk Mar 24, 2008 23:23:36	You should probably lump the level 1 totem abilities in with the other abilities from the same progression. From reading the book itself, I always figured that the totem manifestation was like the second substituion level of the cc totem barbarian. -sorry if i seemed rude earlier, but I swear I had read and triple checked for the ability and could not find it. to make amends, how about a link to the black octopus http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=748197
#46 Omen_of_Peace Mar 25, 2008 1:43:09	Nice guide ! Wolf Totem from UA doesn't deserve its bad rating : getting Improved Trip even with dumped Int and no Combat Expertise is nothing to sneeze at.
#47 Midnight_v Mar 25, 2008 9:05:03	Nice guide ! Wolf Totem from UA doesn't deserve its bad rating : getting Improved Trip even with dumped Int and no Combat Expertise is nothing to sneeze at. Okay hmm... I'll give you that. I've also added the UE's berseker lodge feats which you reminde me there was a feat that did something similar. . . As well as a link to the Awsome Neraphim race (web preview) Lastly, the PGtF Battlerager as sad as it is (now I feel the need to make a battlerage build. For great JUSTICE! Alas, that will have to come much later. All good changes though. M.
#48 zendu Mar 30, 2008 15:14:52	shameless self bump
#49 bellinator Mar 30, 2008 17:41:37	With the Goliath Substitution level, when you get the size increase, do you get the natural armor increase too? +2 NA?
#50 zendu Apr 04, 2008 2:48:13	I think it does not. It lists the space and reach but not that. cloak of predatory vigor MIC 87 lets you heal your HD while raging 2x/day. At 1,600g its rather expensive compaired to clw wands. For < 1/6 your max health. However I think as an early purchase it could pay for itself, especially when you consider sometimes thats the diffrence between life and death. Thoughts on the item? Worth it?
#51 pfooti Apr 04, 2008 9:36:42	Cloak of Predatory Vigor is only for healing mid-rage. For handy-dandy out of combat healing, a Healing Belt trumps all. 750 gp for 6d8 healing per day, unlimited uses? Buy a few. If you need healing midfight, have words with your cleric. If those words go poorly, take his stuff and use it to buy a cloak of predatory vigor.
#52 arz Apr 04, 2008 12:24:14	Stupid Tricks: Berserker Strength Variant 1) Lawful barbarians lose the rage ability not Berserker Strength. 2) I call this the lucky toggle. Enter Berserker Strength, activating Raging Luck, use action point, get healed, get smacked, and repeat. What is the rule on rage feats? Do they apply to each rage-like ability individually or once for all rages/frenzies/spell rages?
#53 immolate Apr 04, 2008 20:39:15	Please help me understand how "actually being large" is better than powerful build? It seems that Goliaths "actually are large" whenever it benefits them, and actually are medium when it doesn't. They get large weapons, large size in grapple, etc. The only thing they can't do is clog up a ten foot gap, I'll grant you that. Plus they get better attribute bonuses, or at least less negatives.
#54 eldariel Apr 04, 2008 20:48:45	Please help me understand how "actually being large" is better than powerful build? It seems that Goliaths "actually are large" whenever it benefits them, and actually are medium when it doesn't. They get large weapons, large size in grapple, etc. The only thing they can't do is clog up a ten foot gap, I'll grant you that. Plus they get better attribute bonuses, or at least less negatives. Most importantly, he doesn't have Large reach, which is one of the greatest advantages to being Large. Basically, he can't cover 20' with a Spiked Chain no matter how he wants to. Also, he doesn't have the movement speed of a Large race; a Large race moves 40' on average as opposed to Goliath's 30'. It's yet another major advantage. So basically, Powerful Build is like being large minus reach and speed. Oh, and the whole 'being a 10' square'-thing.
#55 pfooti Apr 04, 2008 20:50:36	Having reach is very, very handy. If you mix in the spiked chain, it's downright ridiculous how much space you can cover. For example: it's bigger than a fireball. Even without a reach weapon, you can hit medium-sized creatures as they try to move close enough to attack, and you can keep annoying wizards from doing that "I back up 5' and cast my spell" thing. Granted, the penalty to AC is something of a bummer, being large with reach gives you a LOT of tactical options.
#56 surreal Apr 05, 2008 14:39:16	Nothing about Shifter Savagery and Dire Braids yet?
#57 Midnight_v Apr 05, 2008 16:24:28	Nothing about Shifter Savagery and Dire Braids yet? Sigh... currently I've spent the last week pouring through faerun books, I know have to basically panhandle for all the ebberon books. I have a few but by no means all of them. Shifters I think are going to have a more indepth look I think cause they get so much support as barbarians... So much work. So many rewards!:D
#58 surreal Apr 05, 2008 19:00:50	When I get a moment, I'll see if I can dig up some of my shifter barbarian builds. I have a couple (or possibly the same ones) with Totem Rager in there as well.
#59 zendu Apr 05, 2008 23:16:38	You want me to dig through ebberon? I have pretty much all the books.
#60 immolate Apr 09, 2008 14:33:16	Most importantly, he doesn't have Large reach, which is one of the greatest advantages to being Large. Basically, he can't cover 20' with a Spiked Chain no matter how he wants to. Also, he doesn't have the movement speed of a Large race; a Large race moves 40' on average as opposed to Goliath's 30'. It's yet another major advantage. So basically, Powerful Build is like being large minus reach and speed. Oh, and the whole 'being a 10' square'-thing. Ah! Okay. I'm with ya now. It's always fun when the obvious reaches out and slaps you.... from ten feet away.
#61 divisionbyzer0 Apr 24, 2008 23:47:32	double post
#62 divisionbyzer0 Apr 24, 2008 23:52:08	No headlong rush under the feat section??? For those who like Orc barbarians with double axes, here is a PrC for you... It's a modified Revenant Blade for Orcs -- it solves the problem of power attack not working too well with dual wielding :D: The Savage Blade This may be broken if you allow leap attack, headlong rush, and other multiplying feats to apply to more than the first attack in the pounce chain, since it's already letting you get 1:2 ratio on your power attacks and 1.5 x STR from both ends of your weapon.
#63 divisionbyzer0 Apr 25, 2008 3:47:22	Add this to the magic items: Halfweight: All halfweight armors are exceptionally crafted works of art that use psionic circuitry, exceptional materials, and unbelievable articulation engineering to reduce the weight of normal armor to half its listed weight. A halfweight armor is treated as light armor in every way, except that the protection it provides is not affected. Thus, +1 halfweight breastplate is light armor and can be used without penalty by someone who has proficiency only with light armor. Moderate transmutation; CL 8th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor or Craft Psionic Arms and Armor, psionic creature; Price +3 bonus (+2 bonus if used on illithidwrought armor). Halfweight, mithral fullplate much. :D Every barbarian needs a mindflayer tailor. :D
#64 divisionbyzer0 Apr 25, 2008 16:33:55	[FONT="Garamond"] Eye of Gruumsh(CW pg.32 ) Are you an ORC BARBARIAN? Do not serve Gruumsh, despite all the good press he gets. Worship Ilneval instead... because honestly there are simply easier ways to aquire blindsight than plucking out ones own eye. Ilneval is cool, but I think people go with the Gruumsh stuff because: (i) no one knows of Ilneval's existence except people who like Orcs, (ii) there's nothing in the game specifically devoted to him (no PrCs etc, no relics, etc), (iii) there's virtually no fluff text for him anywhere, save for maybe a FR book or two, (iv) people would rather use premade stuff than make their own.
#65 divisionbyzer0 May 02, 2008 1:51:14	Alright, I'll give teh multithreat Barb a go: Human Barbarian 7/Crusader 1/Fighter 1/Ranger 2/Runescarred Berserker 9 - starting with Ranger-level for some skillpoints and taking the second one somewhere down the road; mostly they just boost Spot (and allow picking an additional skill...oh, and make you lite-****ing-rate). 32pb: 15/14/16/10/14/8 Ranger 1: Track, Iron Will, Survivor - Arcane Hunter, Spiritual Connection, Skilled City-Dweller (Tumble, Gather Information) Barbarian 1: Whirling Frenzy 1/day, Lion-Totem Barbarian, Skilled City-Dweller (Tumble, Gather Information) ... The Intimidates won't be too impressive especially since this isn't an Intimidating-focused build, but it'll give it some social prowess as ranks make up for the lack of stats. Gather Information can be rather high too if one considers ~10 ranks in Tumble sufficient. Of course, Survival (which is handily boosted by Survivor) is the main skill for finding Traps and Tracking, so it's pretty high. The character should have highish Listen, Spot, Survival, Tumble and Intimidate and that should carry one through most of the levels. Ideally this guy sits at the frontline as the forward sentry, seeking for traps and looking for threats, takes hits and dishes out more than his share and tosses an AMF or similar spell when necessary. Oh, and heals the party. On level 18 he finally gets the 'Tank my AC, full Frenzied attack your face'-routine. Note, I didn't pick Mage Slayer because of AMF and the fact that Runescars already have low CLs. ... Why bother with tumble? The text of WF doesn't change the skill sets that you can't use; hence, you can't tumble while in a whirling frenzy, since the rage ability specifies no dex skills except balance, ride, and escape artist: Whirling Frenzy: For all other purposes whirling frenzy is identical to rage... Rage: While raging, a barbarian can not use charisma intelligence, dexterity, or intelligence based skills (except for balance, escape artist, intimidate, and ride.) If you wanna be a tumbler I'd go with ferocity instead. With that you just can't use int or cha based skills save for intimidate. Mostly all of the dex based skills can be useful in combat situations. I think ferocity is strictly better. With the dex bonus you get the +'s to reflex, +'s to initiative, and if you have a high enough max dex bonus on your armor you get the +'s to AC, also your Dex based skills go up, and you can actually use them while in ferocity, you can stand from prone as a free action, and you don't suffer a -2 to your attacks. Only thing that suffers is your ranged attacks, and you don't get the extra attack.
#66 eldariel May 02, 2008 7:24:01	Good point about the Tumble, I sort of forgot about the limitation on Rage. Strictly better is never true though; normal Rage gives you more HP, while Whirling Frenzy gives you an extra attack compared to Ferocity! That's why I went with it - with Pounce from Lion-Totem Barbarian combined with eventual Shock Trooper and Power Attack means the extra attack is going to deal insane damage (something in the neighbourhood of 90-100; Leap Attack + Shock Trooper) and the -2 is countered by the Charge's +2, so Ferocity would improve my Initiative slightly while allowing for Tumble, but Whirling Frenzy just allows me to pulverize things.
#67 divisionbyzer0 May 02, 2008 11:51:28	Yeah the one extra attack makes for more damage. In our game we've interpreted pounce + the feats that multiply damage such that they only multiply on the first strike of the charge unless they specifically say they last until your next turn or something like that, so the extra attack is less desirable under that interpreation.
#68 eldariel May 02, 2008 12:56:29	Yeah the one extra attack makes for more damage. In our game we've interpreted pounce + the feats that multiply damage such that they only multiply on the first strike of the charge unless they specifically say they last until your next turn or something like that, so the extra attack is less desirable under that interpreation. Even then, you get a full two-handed power attack worth of damage.
#69 overfiend_87 May 20, 2008 17:44:25	wow sounds very cool things you got here. This is my perfect thread I've been looking for. I have a dwarven barbarian. Very cool and as you said great with the extras.
#70 Midnight_v May 20, 2008 21:25:41	Sir, I am so pleased that you had a chance to use this. It doesn't get near the attention that the "Guide to being Batman" wizard or" the "Guide to being God" again wizard, but the barbarian needs love too!
#71 daxen May 22, 2008 16:33:02	Just and Idea but in the +1 LA Races I think Catfolk is a Horrible omission. Catfolk pounce 40 base movement and you can get the Fast Movement of the Regular Barbarian. +4 Dex is nice as you will stay in Light Armor in a Cafolk build. Combine with Three levels of Scout for Speedy ridiculousness. Racial 10feet + Enhancement 10feet + Unnamed 10 feet + Pounce + Skirmish = YAY! Thats my 2cp Dax
#72 erhnamdj May 22, 2008 16:45:57	Just and Idea but in the +1 LA Races I think Catfolk is a Horrible omission. Catfolk pounce 40 base movement and you can get the Fast Movement of the Regular Barbarian. +4 Dex is nice as you will stay in Light Armor in a Cafolk build. Combine with Three levels of Scout for Speedy ridiculousness. Racial 10feet + Enhancement 10feet + Unnamed 10 feet + Pounce + Skirmish = YAY! Thats my 2cp Dax I must disagree. Dex isn't all that useful. You give up fast movement for pounce. Did you mean the catfolk pounce feat? That costs one of your precious few feats and only works against flat-footed foes. And with the catfolk's favored enemy of ranger, you'll get experience penalties from multiclassing into the scout. +4 dex, +1 natural armor, and forty foot movement is not worth the loss of a level. Especially when there are more powerful la +0 races out there such as the water orc.
#73 surreal May 22, 2008 22:07:54	For LA+1, it's hard to miss with the Bauriar from Planar Handbook. You get 40' speed, quadruped, darkvision, bonus to will saves vs spells/SLAs, and SR=11+hd.
#74 Midnight_v May 23, 2008 1:47:04	For LA+1, it's hard to miss with the Bauriar from Planar Handbook. You get 40' speed, quadruped, darkvision, bonus to will saves vs spells/SLAs, and SR=11+hd. Added based on your information, th PlHB is the one book I don't have... catfolk I can review
#75 timlagor May 27, 2008 8:48:13	Greatswords are all very well but I'd rather have a Falchion (we've got a lot of Strength+PA here right? -you'd want Improved Crit then of course but if you can take that +1 threat Range ability you mention and pick up a Sacred Scabbard from MIC that's double damage every time you roll a 14 -or is it 13 ..which has to help you on your Headless Charge*). ..actually I'd rather have a Great Scimitar + Uncanny Blow -where the EWM love? (EWM also for the Chain of course) You might also like to note potential rules variation on Leap Attack [I think it adds 100% of the penalty to hit that you take: that's the "normal bonus damage" for PA]. * that's a Heedless Charge combined with Cleaving Charge to leave all your foes without their heads EDIT: I also didn't see Elusive Target which an seriously reduce the damage you take if you don't bother to invest in AC (and/or get a bit too Heedless). Obviously not a Feat you can get to early or cheaply and probably one for the pseudo barbarians but still worth a mention.
#76 overfiend_87 May 30, 2008 17:06:55	Sir, I am so pleased that you had a chance to use this. It doesn't get near the attention that the "Guide to being Batman" wizard or" the "Guide to being God" again wizard, but the barbarian needs love too! I personally agree that Dwarves make good barbarians since my current player is one. Very powerfull offensivly, though i hate losing the amour when raging.
#77 Midnight_v Jul 07, 2008 12:37:04	I'm going to be working on this more in the course of the next week personalizing the opinions in the trhread and generally attempting to make it a better read. Thanks for all the support. When in doubt "RAGE"!;)
#78 divisionbyzer0 Oct 01, 2008 20:51:17	thats not true at all. IHS says: my bolding. as you can see, it mentions nothing about harmful. by RAW as far as i'm concerned, IHS is the perfect counter for frenzy gone bad. I'd say you can't do it. The ability is contrary to the text of the Frenzy ability "must attack percieved foes to the best of her ability". Ending the frenzy with an ability that requires FOCUS is not consistent with the requirement of attacking her perceived foes; it is specifically against it, and constitutes if not a rule violation, very bad roleplaying. For this instance there is no RAW, just RAI. Was there ever any custserv or sage advice on this issue?
#79 overfiend_87 Oct 02, 2008 5:13:04	I'm going to be working on this more in the course of the next week personalizing the opinions in the trhread and generally attempting to make it a better read. Thanks for all the support. When in doubt "RAGE"!;) lol yeah. Oh, should point out since Dwarf's don't get slowed down from heavy armour or heavy load then barbarian is a great choice. It adds 10ft to their mere 20ft distance, carry medium armour and have their weight special so they can stay 30ft even in Breastplate so he can not only keep up with everyone, but charge and run a better distance than a normal dwarf. +2 constitution is good for extra hp.
#80 atomickitkat Oct 06, 2008 11:12:37	Not sure if this was mentioned, but Libris Mortis has a nice little race to Awaken. Carcass Eater. Small Animal that basically flies into a Rage whenever it successfully hits a living creature(I presume it doesn't actually stack with itself, but since the name is "Blood Frenzy" it will stack with the rest). As far as I know, it's unlimited(both in uses and duration), apart from the fact that you can't stop it voluntarily.
#81 overfiend_87 Oct 06, 2008 11:26:27	Not sure if this was mentioned, but Libris Mortis has a nice little race to Awaken. Carcass Eater. Small Animal that basically flies into a Rage whenever it successfully hits a living creature(I presume it doesn't actually stack with itself, but since the name is "Blood Frenzy" it will stack with the rest). As far as I know, it's unlimited(both in uses and duration), apart from the fact that you can't stop it voluntarily. Nice, but that also reminds me, Druids can have fun Summoning Wolverine since it rages when it get's hit, but not killed. It's been used again Ogre's and hill giants. It's funny because if they don't kill it in one hit then it Rages, regains HP and increases it's attack. Full attack is also 2 claws and a bite. Plus if you have Augmented summoning it has even MORE Con and even MORE Str. Perfect summoning really :D