Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Endarire Mar 22, 2009 21:27:51	Control water via its Raise Water function part of the spell says it causes water or a similar liquid to raise its height by up to 2 feet per caster level. (At level 7, that's a minimum of 14 feet!) How can you exploit this? 1: Melt pure gold, platinum, or another valuable substance in a large mold like a moat so it liquifies. (The ability to make gold bars, bricks, or coins of your favorite government is optional.) With fireball and the massive amounts of gold coins the typical level 7 carries, this should be no problem. 2: Cast control water to turn the puddle into a 14'+ lake/river/monument of money. This relies on control water affecting liquid gold, platinum, etc. 3: Quickly cool the money- I'll assume gold- until it solidifies. Cone of cold or fireball with Energy Substitution: Cold may work. A water or an air elemental may work. 4: Quickly find a way to sell off this now-processed lake of gold before it evaporates. (The spell has a 10 min/lvl duration.) There's also the matter of what happens to the gold after it's solidifed and the spell expires. You may be able to avoid losing money by casting polymorph any object to turn the gold into wood or plastic or something light for storage or to prevent it from disappearing, then dismissing or dispelling PAO.
#2 jameswilliamogle Mar 22, 2009 21:35:29	Actually, there's more dissolved gold in oceans than anywhere else. Simply lower the water level of ocean water in shallow pools and collect the salts to process using Lightening Bolts in electrolytic reduction of gold (likely in Au3 forms). No problem.
#3 naldor Mar 23, 2009 1:22:02	What exactly is the point of this all this? You've got the precious metals already, which you could just as easily exchange with a mint for 95% of their value in plain coins. This doesn't increase the quantity or value of your assets in any way as near as I can see.
#4 eldritch_lord Mar 23, 2009 2:21:15	What exactly is the point of this all this? You've got the precious metals already, which you could just as easily exchange with a mint for 95% of their value in plain coins. This doesn't increase the quantity or value of your assets in any way as near as I can see. 1) Melt all of your gold coins together into an X by X by 1 foot block. 2) Cast control water. 3) Raise the molten gold by 14 feet. 4) You've just multiplied your wealth by a factor of 15. 5) ??? 6) Profit!
#5 sofawall Mar 23, 2009 2:24:59	Umm, control water doesn't alter volume, just shape. You are gaining 0 gold from this. EDIT: Upon re-reading, it isn't actually clear on this point.
#6 reis Mar 23, 2009 2:47:43	it's also not clear on what factors should be compared when determining if the target of the spell is a "similar liquid", although the "target" entry fot the spell reads "Water in a volume of 10 ft./level by 10 ft./level by 2 ft./level" so my interpretation of RAI is that it would seem to be that the spell works only on liquids which are composed primarily of water think about it this way, if you were standing next to two pools of liquid, one which contained pure water and one which contained liquid gold or platinum, and then you made a list of observations about the two pools, would you be able to make more observations about qualities of the two liquids which are similar, or more observations that were dissimilar? I think as an objective observer, although the two pools are in the same phase of matter, you would be hard pressed after making your lists to argue that they have more in common than not.
#7 phaxi Mar 23, 2009 7:17:24	As far as im concerned, gold is not in the least similar to water. Gold is a metal, while water is not. The duration is also only 10 minutes/level, and the gold would disappear after that.
#8 dr_rocktopus Mar 23, 2009 9:59:53	At the point you have PaO, can't you just start polymorphing party members, cats, townsfolk, trees, and rocks into gold?
#9 hijaxx Mar 23, 2009 10:06:04	do it with earth elementals so the duration is permanent (same kingdom(mineral), same size, same or lower intilligence 5+2+2=9).
#10 reis Mar 23, 2009 10:11:24	don't you think merchants in a high-magic world might want to utilize a detect magic spell before purchasing big, odd-looking lumps of pure gold?
#11 dr_rocktopus Mar 23, 2009 10:14:20	Actually, would a gold-ensorcelled elemental || elven archer worth more or less than straight gold? How high is your fop's charisma? Is he or she worth more to you as a statue? Questions for our time, questions for our time.
#12 tshern Mar 23, 2009 11:09:12	PAO cannot turn anything into gold.
#13 atomickitkat Mar 23, 2009 11:16:38	Along the same lines as Holy Moly, you could just be Sanitation Sam, using CW to carve stones, dig pits, etc.:P
#14 hsien Mar 23, 2009 11:30:36	It really depends on what you veiw as a "similar" liquid. I don't see then as similar at all. Substance: Water is H2O a chemical compound of two gas elements Gold, is Au a single metal element, and not a chemical compound. State at standard room temp/pressure: Water is liquid; heating eventually leads to next stage; gas Gold is solid; heating leads to next stage; liquid. Although by heating gold, it turns into a liquid state, that in and of itself does not qualify it as being "similar" to water. Mercury? Now that is liquid at room temp/pressure, and may be a different story, although the difference in elements, compound gas vs metal, is still an issue.
#15 jameswilliamogle Mar 23, 2009 12:30:25	The phase diagram for water makes it fairly unique among the liquids on this planet, actually, so there are no "similar" liquids that you'll encounter in a dnd world. Of course, that's a DM call, but I don't see anyone with even high school chemistry going for it.
#16 eldritch_lord Mar 23, 2009 12:38:49	Of course, that's a DM call, but I don't see anyone with even high school chemistry going for it. Yeah, I wouldn't allow it at all, but it's still conceptually amusing.
#17 hogarth Mar 23, 2009 12:40:02	The phase diagram for water makes it fairly unique among the liquids on this planet, actually, so there are no "similar" liquids that you'll encounter in a dnd world. Lemonade? Tomato soup? Pee? At any rate, if molten platinum is similar to (liquid) water, I'd be interested in seeing what a dissimilar liquid is...
#18 Endarire Mar 23, 2009 12:40:53	Does acid count? Alchemist's fire? Black lotus extract?
#19 hijaxx Mar 23, 2009 13:47:56	Acid: depends on what kind of acid :P Alchemist's fire: definitely no Black lotus extract: hmmm. probably no.
#20 jameswilliamogle Mar 23, 2009 14:08:21	Lemonade? Tomato soup? Pee? All water-based. Anything water solvated solutions will behave similarly, but only up to a point. And even then, in the absolute strictest sense of the "similar" keyword, there's nothing but absolutely pure water that has similar properties throughout (not even .0000001% impurity would work). Now, if "similar" means "a freely flowing liquid above its freezing point", then, yeah, gold works. More vagueries and ambiguities. Seems like these days they run this board.
#21 atomickitkat Mar 24, 2009 10:24:19	I'd say Alchemist's Fire will work if CW works on Oil. Black Lotus Extract, only if it's in aqueous form or something. No powders.
#22 hsien Mar 24, 2009 11:38:44	One thing to keep in mind, is that the spell niether creates nor destroys the liquid. So even if it worked on gold, you would not be getting any additional value as it essentially thinned out to take up that extra volume. I could see this being an interesting trap with a pool of contact poison, suddenly raised, although probably factor thinning as a reduction to DC. Water based: Blood, actually used something like that from God of War game, lever at bottom of statue in a pool of blood. The water-breathing character ended up going berserk from it, fit the scene/character.
#23 karmme Mar 24, 2009 11:40:16	And even then, in the absolute strictest sense of the "similar" keyword, there's nothing but absolutely pure water that has similar properties throughout (not even .0000001% impurity would work). How can you use the word similar in a strict sense? By it's definition it is equivocal. As far as liquids that are similar to water, with regards to chemical makeup, I'd say any liquid solution that is >50% water (blood, acids, seawater, etc...) would be ok. Although this does raise the question as to what would happen if the water was occupied at the time. Could you move all the water away from a tentacle tree (or whatever it's called), it would be a lot easier to kill that way. Gandalf should have had that one memmed at the gates of Moria.
#24 reis Mar 24, 2009 11:44:09	Does acid count? Alchemist's fire? Black lotus extract? its all up to the individual DM, there is no RAW or even really RAI besides the common sense interpretation of the word "similar"