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| #1Johnathan_VagabondJul 30, 2009 9:24:32 | I've just jumped into a 3.5 core game as a gnomish wizard. Now, I've never played a wizard before. Now, I'm not trying to super-optimize or dominate encounters. Indeed, I don't think this campaign is as encounter rich as others would be, rather, after looking through the wizard, I couldn't help but wonder how to make it effective when you have so few spells. And this is a, I don't know what you call it, super core(?) game. The players can pick anything from the PHB. My first step was to read through the various Wizard Guides (treantmonk's, Dictum_Mortum's, AZNSupermarket's (although having already chosen a race it was a little redundant. I was glad to see gnome was a 'good' choice), Echodark's, and the spell school guides. I felt a little better after that, but many of them focused (understandably so) on non-PHB items and spells. Now, I'm really looking for PHB. I've already got the character entered, so I'm looking for tips and suggestions as to what to do now (1st level) and how to advance usefully. Sliverny False-Eye TN Gnomish Diviner (Evocation forbidden) 1 (32 point buy) Str 8, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 18, Wis 10, Cha 8 Languages: Common, Gnomish, Abyssal, Celestial, Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Halfling, Infernal, Terran Feats: Scribe Scroll, Improved Initiative Skills: -Concentration +7 -Craft Alchemy +10 -Decipher Script +8 -Know Arcana +8 -Know A & E +8 -Sense Motive +4 -Speak Language 4 -Spellcraft +8 Spells: , 4 per day (3 base, 1 divination), DC 14 -All Spells, minus evocations -Ghost Sound DC 15 1, 3 per day (1 base, 1 bonus, 1 divination), DC 15 -Color Spray DC 16 -Enlarge Person (prepared) -Grease -Identify -True Strike (prepared) -Ray of Enfeeblement -Reduce Person -Silent Image DC 16 (prepared) Equipment -Spellbook -Small sized Staff -Dagger -Satchel -Everburning Hooded Lamp -Spell Component Pouch -Signet Ring -Twenty pieces of chalk -Blue Scholars Outfit -Silver Holy Symbol -Five pieces of Parchment -Waterskin -Five Acid Flasks There are some special rules in place. 1) Everybody gains the benefits of the Aristocrat class, when those benefits are superior to those of their base class. That expanded my skill points/level, class skills, and HD. Unforunately the Aristocrat has a high Will and low Everything else, so no love there. But it gave me 11 starting hp, which I'm happy to have. Also, no Leadership. 2) We can pick feats from the XPH if we want, but they are the feats as is (so to get speed of thought I first need Wild Talent for it to be useful). 3) The action will vary widely, from sewers to cities to open plains. But there will be a lot of 'down time' with which to do stuff. 4) You can craft magical tattoos for spells of 3rd level or lower with a feat, and 6th level or lower with a second feat. They activate on touch and can be applied to anyone. 5) My party composition will change. It's a play by post, where different players will sign up for an adventure, while the rest will have down time. 6) I am the only player wizard in the whole game. That's not a rule, just an odd fact. |
| #2kell_kheraptisJul 30, 2009 10:11:11 | I've just jumped into a 3.5 core game as a gnomish wizard. Now, I've never played a wizard before. Now, I'm not trying to super-optimize or dominate encounters. Indeed, I don't think this campaign is as encounter rich as others would be, rather, after looking through the wizard, I couldn't help but wonder how to make it effective when you have so few spells. And this is a, I don't know what you call it, super core(?) game. The players can pick anything from the PHB. Firstly, I'd be more than happy to play if you want a Wizardly buddy! Second, second wizard or not, you'll really like to have sleep on there if you're playing from low levels. It's an auto-lose if/when it works. Gnome means better AC from being small and good focus on debuffs. Um...I'm usually used to working with a broader book list, but even in Core-only you've got a lot of BC at your disposal, and the whole Cleric list from 17th up as well. You might wish to do a boards search for the "core only" or "breaking the core" threads, they would have a wealth of info I would imagine. Short of Wizard 5/Loremaster 10/Archmage 5, or some variation thereof, there isn't really a whole lot of variance in PrC's available. Is Red Wizard available to you? Don't forget that simulacrum is Core as well, and they can participate in Circle Magic with you. That's all I have for now, though I'd really appreciate it if you mentioned if it's open to more players on the next post (and love it if it is...I've been gameless for a while now since the old group went it's seperate ways). |
| #3slivernyfalseeyeJul 30, 2009 10:23:19 | Firstly, I'd be more than happy to play if you want a Wizardly buddy! Garic's City Second, second wizard or not, you'll really like to have sleep on there if you're playing from low levels. It's an auto-lose if/when it works. I'll see if I can copy that from someone's spellbook when/if I get into the Mage's Guild. I'm usually used to working with a broader book list, but even in Core-only you've got a lot of BC at your disposal, and the whole Cleric list from 17th up as well. Cleric List? How do I get into the cleric's list? I've only got a wisdom of 10, but being a mystic theurge of the Magic Goddess had crossed my mind. You might wish to do a boards search for the "core only" or "breaking the core" threads, they would have a wealth of info I would imagine. Short of Wizard 5/Loremaster 10/Archmage 5, or some variation thereof, there isn't really a whole lot of variance in PrC's available. Is Red Wizard available to you? Don't forget that simulacrum is Core as well, and they can participate in Circle Magic with you. That's all I have for now, though I'd really appreciate it if you mentioned if it's open to more players on the next post (and love it if it is...I've been gameless for a while now since the old group went it's seperate ways). Red wizard is not available to me. Really, I'm not sure how available prestige classes are, I've never seen anyone try for it. Is Circle magic in the PHB? Actually, what is circle magic? |
| #4keyes2k4Jul 30, 2009 10:31:52 | Going Specialist will nab you 1 more spell per day, although it costs you 2 schools (I suggest evocation and enchantment, but that's just because the others fit into my style). Losing schools has a double-effect, it makes spell selection a little easier, but it also takes away from versatility. |
| #5gorthawarJul 30, 2009 10:32:28 | Just a few thoughts. If you play phb only you best stick to wizard when leveling up. With lots of downtime I'd recommend craft wonderous item at lvl 3. If you were either chaotic or lawful neutral you could take improved familiar to get a quasit or an imp as a familiar which are both pretty cool. Perhaps you can change your alignment at some point. Other nice feats are extend spell, quicken spell, perhaps some spell focus and spell penetration. Right now you should go and get yourself a light crossbow. Even with 11 hp you should not be near anyone who's not on your side. You should not prepare true strike yet unless you want to use it for your ray of enfeeblement it's pretty much wasted. And even then its 2 of your most powerful spells... A good choice to prepare would be sleep it really shines at low lvls and is better then color spray due to its reach. Remember your ac is 13 only and you have neither shield nor mage armor on your list. The latter should be one of the spell you want to aquire some time soon it might be helpful to have an ac of 17 instead. Which familiar did you choose? While lots of people neglect it as a liability at low lvls its quite nice. Hidden in one of your pockets it gives alertness and more without beeing in to much danger. Just be careful of magic missiles. Hope that was of some help. |
| #6slivernyfalseeyeJul 30, 2009 10:45:45 | Just a few thoughts. If you play phb only you best stick to wizard when leveling up. With lots of downtime I'd recommend craft wonderous item at lvl 3. If you were either chaotic or lawful neutral you could take improved familiar to get a quasit or an imp as a familiar which are both pretty cool. Perhaps you can change your alignment at some point. Other nice feats are extend spell, quicken spell, perhaps some spell focus and spell penetration. The only consideration I'd given to breaking wizard was Archmage, but then, it takes forever to get that far, so it's not really an issue yet. I've been thinking about craft wonderous item, and all the wonderous things they do. There will be a lot of in-game down-time roleplay, which would be a situation where wonderous items shine even more. I'm sure she could become lawful or chaotic. Wizards are fairly lawful and gnomes are fairly chaotic. All it would really take is a tip in the balance. Since the Mage's Guild is racist against non-humans, she could easily retreat into her wizardry. But that'll happen over time. I didn't think I'd need spell focus or penetration, having dropped Evocation. I intended to use Illusion spells creatively and conjure up things that dodge around DCs and SR. Oh, the character is claiming that she dropped necromancy in exchange for her divinatory power, to cover her love of necromancy. Right now you should go and get yourself a light crossbow. Even with 11 hp you should not be near anyone who's not on your side. I figured as much. I'll play that out at some point. You should not prepare true strike yet unless you want to use it for your ray of enfeeblement it's pretty much wasted. And even then its 2 of your most powerful spells... Well, my other divination is Identify and since 1 spell/day has to be a divination, it goes to the more 'useful' spell. Should I prepare something other than SI and Enlarge Person? A good choice to prepare would be sleep it really shines at low lvls and is better then color spray due to its reach. Remember your ac is 13 only and you have neither shield nor mage armor on your list. The latter should be one of the spell you want to aquire some time soon it might be helpful to have an ac of 17 instead. I'll get my hands on someone's spellbook and copy that down, or buy a scroll (at 90% cost for members) and do it from there. Which familiar did you choose? While lots of people neglect it as a liability at low lvls its quite nice. Hidden in one of your pockets it gives alertness and more without beeing in to much danger. Just be careful of magic missiles. I should have mentioned this in the rules. Wizards and Sorcerer's can't begin with a familiar, they have to play out getting the cash and summoning the familiar. Do you have a suggestion about which one to summon? Hope that was of some help. I think it was. Thank you. Going Specialist will nab you 1 more spell per day, although it costs you 2 schools (I suggest evocation and enchantment, but that's just because the others fit into my style). Losing schools has a double-effect, it makes spell selection a little easier, but it also takes away from versatility. I don't think that's from the PHB1. Otherwise I'd have considered doing that and specializing in something other than divination. |
| #7gorthawarJul 30, 2009 16:20:29 | If you have access to the core prestige classes a loremaster suits a diviner just fine. It has only skill focus knowledge as a prerequisite you wouldn't take anyways and gives a bonus feat to compensate for it. And you can get into it at lvl 8 which is still miles away though. A core only archmage imho spends to many feats on getting inte a class late in the game. Especially if you start at lvl 1. Mechanically a rat familliar is probably the best if you fear for it beeing the target of your enemies. It can hide in your clothes, gives 2 feat and can help you on most of your skill checks. I really like bat and hedgehog too. The first can help you out quite a bit in darkness and the second gives +1 natural armor and is soooo cute :P It is in the section on familiars for tiny casters in the dmg though. Your spell selection is good I forgot about the diviner part. You might want to switch enlarge to grease, color spray or sleep if you have nobody in your party that really profits from being large. Another great lvl 1 spell that never loses its utility is unseen servant. It can drag 100 pounds along to spring traps in your path, become a ghost thanks to a blanket thrown over it or or just annoy people by opening/closing doors all the time. Best thing it has a duraton of 1 hour/lvl. |
| #8EndarireJul 30, 2009 22:02:50 | If you can use polymorph et al, Transmuter is splendid. If not, Conjurer is still spiffy for glitterdust, phantom steed, dimension door, teleport, and Evard's black tentacles. Gnome's benefits include +2 CON and small size. (Gray Elf for +2 INT, -2 CON is also core but you said you were determined to be a gnome.) Illusion goes well for you. If you specialize, Enchantment and Necromancy are favorite schools to drop. Evocation has handy low-level boom spells, wall of force, Bigby's grasping hand, and contingency. Favorite first level spell picks, assuming no Enchantment or Necormancy: -Comprehend Languages @2 -Enlarge Person -Grease -Mage Armor -Magic Missile -Mount -Protection from Evil @2 -Shield -Silent Image |
| #9Johnathan_VagabondJul 31, 2009 7:10:01 | If you have access to the core prestige classes a loremaster suits a diviner just fine. It has only skill focus knowledge as a prerequisite you wouldn't take anyways and gives a bonus feat to compensate for it. And you can get into it at lvl 8 which is still miles away though. A core only archmage imho spends to many feats on getting inte a class late in the game. Especially if you start at lvl 1. Loremaster? Ok, I'll keep an eye out for that. I had planned on taking a knowledge skill focus anyways. The house rules are a bit wonky for Skill Focus. You get a base +2, with a bonus +1 for every four levels you have in a class with that skill as a class skill. The +2/+2 lets you Take 10 in difficult circumstances once you have 10 ranks in that skill. Mechanically a rat familiar is probably the best if you fear for it being the target of your enemies. It can hide in your clothes, gives 2 feat and can help you on most of your skill checks. I was thinking about a Raven, but I see why a rat is has a lot of mechanical oomph. Your spell selection is good I forgot about the diviner part. You might want to switch enlarge to grease, color spray or sleep if you have nobody in your party that really profits from being large. Well, there are a couple of melee types in the game at the moment, but if I don't have a reliable one I'll switch out to grease. I'll consider sleep, but it's been modified by house rule to grant 2 saves. 1 to become exhausted, the other to fall unconscious. I thought with my gnomish illusion DC boost that it would be better to have color spray. But I can still switch to sleep, since exhausted is a good debuff. |