Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 justanartist Oct 20, 2009 10:28:58	I've tried to go to previous handbooks, but that's not working too well. Pretty basic. Human Cleric of Pelor. I'm considering doing Cleric 18/Fighter 2, but will probably go Cleric 20 (or maybe a couple levels of Hierophant) if the game lasts that long. My main question is what feats do you guys think are best to pick for a core only cleric build?   Thanks
#2 deoxhydroxinate Oct 20, 2009 11:10:26	What kind of stats are you working with and what other party roles are there? Also, what is the role you wish to play?
#3 justanartist Oct 20, 2009 12:40:00	Sorry, I should have given more info originally. 32 pt build Str:12, Dex:12, Con:14, Int:12, Wis:15, Cha:14 (up for change I suppose) Party: Human Cleric of Pelor (Sun & Healing domains), 1/2 Orc Monk, Elf Wizard (Evoker), Halfling Rogue, Human Fighter or Paladin (not sure, he hasn't revealed) I like to be capable in combat, which is why I considered a couple of Fighter levels. Not that a couple of fighter levels will make me Conan or anything. But realistically I'll probably need to focus much more on healing, buffing, & turning. Tentatively, I have Scribe Scroll & Improved Turning b/c it seems like we may run into undead at least semi-regularly. Once again, this is up for suggestions. I don't know what kind of options are going to be available for item creation. I hope this provides a bit more direction.
#4 deoxhydroxinate Oct 20, 2009 14:51:16	Well, even with the Divine Metamagic route ruled out (since it's not core), you can still be a very capable fighter without the dips into fighter (unless you wanted the 2 extra bonus feats). Your base attack will be modified with Divine Power, and with other buffs (such as Righteous Might, Divine Favor, etc) you can really put on the hurt. The only advantage with Divine Metamagic is it allows you to make those buffs last 24 hours. Now, in my group of gamers, we have established "core" as basically PHB 1&2, DMG 1&2, and the Monster Manuals.  Is your core comprised of the same? Or basically just PHB, DMG and MM?   Also, what level are you starting at and what what level to you plan on going to?
#5 damien_the_bloodfeaster Oct 20, 2009 16:45:08	Do you have to go with Pelor? Do you have to go with a specific deity? Core rules allows you to champion a concept or philosophy, and pick two domains to match. If you have freedom to choose, I'd be tempted by Sun and Luck, or maybe Magic and Luck. The one reroll per day can be huge. Magic is good because it lets you use wizard magic items (such as scrolls of spells from schools forbidden to your evoker). It also grants antimagic field as a 6th level spell, which is awesome if you survive to level 11+. (Antimagic field sucks as a wizard spells, since wizzies without magic are easy meat, but as a cleric you can cast this spell and still go about with a decent AC and hit points.) How long is the campaign expected to last? Just a few levels? All the way to level 20? I'd probably hold off on Improved Turning until level 3 or 6. But be sure to put 5 ranks into Knowledge (religion) as soon as possible for the +2 bonus on turn checks. Other feats to consider are Improved Initiative and Skill Focus (Concentration).
#6 justanartist Oct 20, 2009 16:45:48	Well, even with the Divine Metamagic route ruled out (since it's not core), you can still be a very capable fighter without the dips into fighter (unless you wanted the 2 extra bonus feats). Your base attack will be modified with Divine Power, and with other buffs (such as Righteous Might, Divine Favor, etc) you can really put on the hurt. The only advantage with Divine Metamagic is it allows you to make those buffs last 24 hours. Now, in my group of gamers, we have established "core" as basically PHB 1&2, DMG 1&2, and the Monster Manuals.  Is your core comprised of the same? Or basically just PHB, DMG and MM?   Also, what level are you starting at and what what level to you plan on going to? Yeah, I haven't played a cleric in 3.5 yet, so this is a new experience. "Core" for my group is just PHB, DMG, MM1. We're trying a more minimal game that we haven't played since 3.5 came out. We are starting as 1st level characters. What level are we playing to? That's always a toss up. Typically, we play until we become burned out (but, we usually make it to around 12th-15th level). We have made it as far as 20th before.
#7 deoxhydroxinate Oct 20, 2009 21:47:26	I'd have to agree with the OP in that if you can get out of worshipping Pelor and instead choose an ideal or belief, that would be much better. As was stated, the Magic Domain is simply amazing.
#8 justanartist Oct 21, 2009 0:21:27	I'd have to agree with the OP in that if you can get out of worshipping Pelor and instead choose an ideal or belief, that would be much better. As was stated, the Magic Domain is simply amazing.   Thanks to both of you for the suggestions & info so far. Unfortunately, I do have to stick with Pelor. There are fluff/role-playing reasons that the GM set up. I agree that the Magic, Luck, & even Travel domains are more optimized though. So, some of the feats that have been mentioned as good possibilities are: Skill Focus (Concentration), Imp. Initiative, maybe Imp. Turning (later levels). What do you think about Metamagic Feats (I'm leaning towards Extend and Quicken), Scribe Scroll, Brew Potion, and/or Lightning Reflexes?
#9 damien_the_bloodfeaster Oct 21, 2009 8:24:04	Metamagic feats are good at higher levels, but I wouldn't bother with them now. Extend Spell is all right, but metamagic rods of the feat are cheap, and I'd just get one of them instead. Quicken Spell is decent, but one you should hold off on until later in your career (level 12 or 15, probably). By then of course, you may be able to afford a metamagic rod of it as well. Lightnng Reflexes is not worth it--you should have the hit points to take a blast or two, and you should probably have someone with a better reflex save ahead of you in the party marching order, to take the brunt of traps. Brew Potion is not worth it. The best crafting feats are Scribe Scroll, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, and Craft Wondrous Item. Before taking any, be sure to ask yourself if you'll have the time and XP available to do a lot of crafting. Many "adventure path" type campaigns allow opportunities here and there for a bit of crafting, but not unlimited time. Also, how easy is it to purchase items in your campaign world? If you'll have ready access to a large city with plenty of shopping options, and local artisans who can enchant stuff for you, you'd be better off saving your feat and XP for something else.
#10 phaedrusxy Oct 21, 2009 9:29:21	Sorry, I should have given more info originally. 32 pt build Str:12, Dex:12, Con:14, Int:12, Wis:15, Cha:14 (up for change I suppose) I see no reason to put a 14 in charisma with a core-only cleric. Turning just isn't that great, unless you're expecting to face hordes of undead every encounter or something. In fact, I'd be tempted to go with a dwarf and stick a 12 in charisma, giving you a 10 overall. Stick a 14 in strength, and Con (which gets boosted to 16). So overall it would look like: Str 14, Dex 12, Con 16, Int 12, Wis 15, Cha 10 You won't miss the bonus feat much, as there aren't that many great feats for early level core clerics, anyway. I'd probably take Improved Initiative. And your class skills kind of stink, too. So you won't miss that, either. The Darkvision and extra Con will be nice, though. And your movement in heavy armor will be 20, just as it would with your human cleric.
#11 cru Oct 21, 2009 12:10:17	Consider Power Attack. It needs 13 Str so plan accordingly. This feat will be useful later, when you buff yourself with Divine Power and Righteous Might, wielding a two-handed weapon, with an animated shield orbiting around you.
#12 damien_the_bloodfeaster Oct 21, 2009 17:08:01	If sticking with Pelor, I'd consider Strength/Sun instead of Healing/Sun as domain choices. The spell list for the Strength domain is, to my mind, superior, including allowing enlarge person as a first level spell. Be sure the party helps cough up the funds for a wand of cure light wounds as soon as possible. It is one of the most essential items to have in a 3e party, and will go far in keeping you from having to sacrifice memorized spells to heal your buddies. Definitely should be a communal purchase, though.
#13 Endarire Oct 21, 2009 17:41:24	Dump Charisma. Either you max or ignore turning, and turning isn't that great. Assuming Human, 14 STR/14 DEX/14 CON/10 INT/16 WIS/8 CHA, 2 extra points OR 14 STR/12 DEX/16 CON/10 INT/16 WIS/8 CHA
#14 tynpeddler Oct 21, 2009 23:57:20	If you're looking for some good ideas on a core only cleric that can smack people around, I would check out this thread (community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...)  and scroll down to the harvester (both first and second avatars).  It's a core cleric with a one level dip in fighter and the most succesful character in CORE coliseum history (I think).   In general, when building core characters, the CORE coliseum is always a great place to look for ideas.