Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 gladius91 May 13, 2010 4:03:59	This is my first post here. And here is what I aim on playing in my 1st DND campaign. I am looking for any pointers or suggestions. Race: Halfling Rogue 1: Improved Initiative Fighter 1: Weapon Finesse Fighter 2: Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (Dagger) Ranger 1: Track Ranger 2: Archery Combat Style - Rapid Shot Rogue 2: Quick Draw Rogue 3-5: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting Rogue 6-8: Improved Critical (Dagger) Rogue 9 Rogue 10: Crippling Strike Rogue 11: Two Weapon Defense Rogue 12 Rogue 13: Skill Mastery Rogue 14: Greater Two-Weapon Fighting Rogue 15 Rogue 16: Opportunist I was looking into Swapping some levels of Rogue for some possible Shadow Dancer levels. But I'm not sure if the Shadow Dancer levels would be worth it. Preferrably I stick with the first 5 or so levels; becuase I am happy with those. However, after that it seems like you guys could help me out on whether this is viable or not. The only limitations we have in our Campaign is no-evil and core only. (No Psionics)
#2 tdsaw111 May 13, 2010 10:02:50	Not sure why you wouldn't just take Rogue 1/Ranger2 to get TWF free, then go into Fighter if that is what you wanted. Not sure why you need Ranger and Fighter at all actually. I would probably take one or the other and then progress into a PrC. What do you want this character to do? What is his purpose?
#3 phaedrusxy May 13, 2010 10:45:45	From what I gather, he's throwing daggers. So he can use both TWF and Rapid Shot at the same time. Ranger and Fighter give him more feats, which he needs to get as many thrown daggers as possible. The core PrCs aren't any better than just progressing rogue for what he wants I think. So overall, it isn't too bad at all for a first character build. I'd suggest dropping weapon focus, Improved Crit, and Two Weapon Defense. Those feats aren't generally worth it. Add Precise Shot. Rearrange your feats to get into your primary fighting style ASAP. You might consider dropping or delaying the 2nd level of fighter. So overall, something like: 1 Rogue 1: Rapid Shot 2 Ranger 1: Track 3 Ranger 2: Combat Style - Two-Weapon Fighting 4 Fighter 1: Precise Shot 5 Rogue 2: Evasion 6-8 Rogue 3-5: Quick Draw 9-11 Rogue 6-8: Improved Initiative 12 Rogue 9: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting 13 Rogue 10: Crippling Strike 14 Rogue 11: 15 Rogue 12 Greater Two-Weapon Fighting 16 Rogue 13: Skill Mastery 17 Rogue 14: 18 Rogue 15: OPEN FEAT 19 Rogue 16: Opportunist 20 If you go this far, take the 2nd fighter level to get BAB +16 for when you head into Epic. Most games don't go into Epic, though.
#4 carnivore May 13, 2010 12:32:23	i like PhaedrusXYs build and would recomend it .... if you wanted something a little different ... the only changes i might suggest would be like this: Rogue 10/ Ranger 2/ Fighter 2/ Horizon Walker 6 not in that order or Possibly this: Rogue 6/ Ranger 2/ Fighter 2/ Horizon Walker 6/ Shadowdancer 4 both of these Builds give Excellent Mobility in a Core Only game ... and have very complementary class abilities
#5 gladius91 May 13, 2010 15:17:43	From what I gather, he's throwing daggers. So he can use both TWF and Rapid Shot at the same time. Ranger and Fighter give him more feats, which he needs to get as many thrown daggers as possible. The core PrCs aren't any better than just progressing rogue for what he wants I think. 1 Rogue 1: Rapid Shot 2 Ranger 1: Track 3 Ranger 2: Combat Style - Two-Weapon Fighting 4 Fighter 1: Precise Shot 5 Rogue 2: Evasion 6-8 Rogue 3-5: Quick Draw 9-11 Rogue 6-8: Improved Initiative 12 Rogue 9: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting 13 Rogue 10: Crippling Strike 14 Rogue 11: 15 Rogue 12 Greater Two-Weapon Fighting 16 Rogue 13: Skill Mastery 17 Rogue 14: 18 Rogue 15: OPEN FEAT 19 Rogue 16: Opportunist 20 If you go this far, take the 2nd fighter level to get BAB +16 for when you head into Epic. Most games don't go into Epic, though. That build looks very interesting; however, shouldn't I take Weapon Finesse, so that if I got stuck in Melee, I have a better chance to hit. Though, I believe I have an extra feat at level 3 that you didn't put in. So maybe I will just take it there. Thanks for the help
#6 phaedrusxy May 13, 2010 16:55:18	That build looks very interesting; however, shouldn't I take Weapon Finesse, so that if I got stuck in Melee, I have a better chance to hit. Though, I believe I have an extra feat at level 3 that you didn't put in. So maybe I will just take it there. Thanks for the help Yeah, I did miss a feat... Unless you're cornered by something with reach, you're probably better off just 5' stepping and throwing daggers rather than trying to melee. It is certainly easier to set up flanking than to make your enemies lose their Dex to AC in the early levels, though. At least past the surprise + 1st round, anyway... Speaking of which, I'd be tempted to move either Quick Draw or Improved Initiative up to 3rd. Both of those are quite important for a rogue thrower. People are flat-footed before their turn in initiative comes up. So if you go before them in a combat, you get to sneak attack them with your ranged attacks. And I don't know if you've thought of it or not, but you might consider throwing acid flasks instead of daggers against tough enemies. A touch AC is usually a lot easier to hit, and you can still do sneak attack damage with them.
#7 lormador May 14, 2010 20:45:39	1 Rogue 1: Rapid Shot 2 Ranger 1: Track 3 Ranger 2: Combat Style - Two-Weapon Fighting 4 Fighter 1: Precise Shot 5 Rogue 2: Evasion 6-8 Rogue 3-5: Quick Draw 9-11 Rogue 6-8: Improved Initiative 12 Rogue 9: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting 13 Rogue 10: Crippling Strike 14 Rogue 11: 15 Rogue 12 Greater Two-Weapon Fighting 16 Rogue 13: Skill Mastery 17 Rogue 14: 18 Rogue 15: OPEN FEAT 19 Rogue 16: Opportunist 20 If you go this far, take the 2nd fighter level to get BAB +16 The problem here is we don't qualify for Rapid Shot at 1st. We need to switch the Combat Style, then we're ok. We have another problem qualifying for Precise Shot at 4th, so I think that would be a good time to put in the prereq. How about: 1 Rogue 1: Two Weapon Fighting 2 Ranger 1: Track 3 Ranger 2: Combat Style - Rapid Shot / Point Blank Shot 4 Fighter 1: Precise Shot 5 Fighter  2: Improved Initiative 6-8 Rogue 2-4: Evasion, Quick Draw 9-11 Rogue 6-8: Weapon Finesse 12 Rogue 9: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting 13 Rogue 10: Crippling Strike 14 Rogue 11: 15 Rogue 12 Greater Two-Weapon Fighting 16 Rogue 13: Skill Mastery 17 Rogue 14: 18 Rogue 15: OPEN FEAT 19 Rogue 16: Opportunist 20 If you go this far, take the 2nd fighter level to get BAB +16 I think you can safely put off Quick Draw until 6th- unless you've got your heart set on making 3 ranged touch attacks with Acid Flasks at a low bonus, two attacks really should be enough at that point. Might as well wait until the bonus would be good enough on three attacks to snag Quick Draw. But then, you might not want to walk around holding acid flasks all the time.
#8 streamofthesky May 16, 2010 22:32:16	You should drop Two Weapon Defense anyway, but...that's not a core feat, don't know how that even got on your progression.
#9 Senevri May 19, 2010 13:16:58	Wrong. Well, not the dropping TWD part... then again, if there aren't any better picks left, why not...
#10 streamofthesky May 20, 2010 21:09:54	Ah, just the Improved and Greater versions of TWD are in Complete Warrior.