Maybe have a bow for backup, Im not sure on that yet.
SO i am looking for something that fits the concept, a stealthy commando type, who is able to, whne catching his opponent of guard, is capable of dealing a serious blow.
Your general description fits pretty much every rogue ever. All I can suggest is the chain of Two-Weapon Fighting feats (you might want two levels of Fighter to advance your base attack faster, gain more hit points, and make the feat load a bit easier, but that will slow down your primary source of damage, Sneak Attack), and Weapon Finesse (to exploit that huge Dexterity score). There aren't a lot of other options that leap out as ZOMGAWESOME for rogues in core-only, so round out the list with Improved Initiative (a sound investment for anyone) and either feats for your bow (there's plenty: Point Blank Shot and Rapid Shot are a given, but if "core" means "SRD" rather than "PHB", definitely consider Manyshot and Greater Manyshot), or filler feats (Improved Feint, Skill Focus, Combat Reflexes* (not actually a filler feat most of the time but you're not built for ideal use of it), Weapon Focus, and so on). Note that since most of your damage comes in the form of bonus damage dice, "classic" combat feats like Improved Critical are not good choices, although (if you splash levels of Fighter in there, as suggested above) Weapon Specialization isn't a bad option since you'll be making multiple attacks.
Your skills should include Hide, Move Silently, Search, Spot/Listen (both preferrably, but high in one can make up for low in the other), Disable Device (Open Lock if you can afford it), Tumble, and Use Magic Device. If you like the feint approach (which doesn't synergize with two weapons, by the way), points into Bluff can help a lot; even without Improved Feint, consider it because it's the skill you can use to create a diversion to hide (allowing you to slip away from guards after they spot you).
For equipment, look into the Sword of Subtlety - if it can be forged as a dagger, you've found your weapon of choice. Your armor should probably be leather at the very low levels, masterwork chain shirt at the low levels, and magic mithral breastplates as you go up in level from there. As a scout rogue, you'll probably rely on not being detected, so armor and equipment to boost your mobility and your stealth should be your top priority (along with staples like the Handy Haversack, which will let you tote around your bag of tricks more easily; a good guide to turning one into a literal bag of tricks can be found here).
sorry i justa ssumed that when I say build for a class that it was understood as 1-20 build. my apologies again.
I was thinking of takin a couple levels in fighter to enhance my combat expertise ( the actual definition not teh feat)
So really there isnot too much other than the obvious to do with a core only rogue?
The decision with core-only rogue is when you want the fighter levels and how many. Usually the numbers are 1, 2, or 4 levels. That's probably your biggest decision.
There *are* actually some secret surprises in the PHB regarding a rogue, but they're all under Use Magic Device. That lets you use any wand, scroll, staff, or similar. This can actually be very very powerful, letting you act as medic or bag-o-tricks again (this is especially important if you don't have a wizard on your team or if the DM is randomly generating treasure). In terms of skills and feats, it's all exactly what you'd expect, with the only surprises being how your fighter levels influence your progression.
The real concern with TWF rogue is the lack of mobility, since you can't move and attack with both weapons. There's no real options in core to address this. Generally I think you'd be relying on your bow unless you're already thick in the fray *and* your allies are nearby for flanking; the bow will otherwise let you snipe or full-attack at relative ease (plus, Point Blank Shot has the same range as sneak attack, and on a core rogue, its benefits aren't as appreciated as they should be. Rapid Shot is similar to TWF in this regard*). When you're more or less surrounded but your allies are near, draw your weapons (Quick Draw helps with this and can actually synergize with the rogue to some extent - it allows Rapid Shot to work with throwing daggers, so if you enchant your main daggers to serve as melee/ranged weapons (i.e. Returning and a bunch of general purpose abilities) Quick Draw may be nearly as good as Weapon Finesse) and start moving between them to sneak attack. If you're surrounded and your allies aren't nearby, rely on Tumble and Bluff to get out of the way. (Mobility is a good feat for this too, but I'm not sure if it's worth the cost or not without something like Elusive Target to aim for. This depends heavily on your DM's tactics.)
*My beef is that it still requires PBS to get Rapid Shot, when I always suspected this was because in order to do a similar trick in melee in 3e, you also needed two feats (Ambidexterity and Two-Weapon Fighting). 3.5 merged those two feats but kept Rapid Shot's prerequisite, which basically means all archers need a particular feat to even begin to play the game, which slows them down a bit. But I digress.
I don't know how many more levels we'll get out the current game, but I was planning on finishing out with Rg16 since you can get bonus feats @ 13 & 16.
He fights with 2 Waraxes using Oversized TWF.
By Core Only can you including PHBII and MIC? Completes? or just PHB and DMG?
Modified for Core feats my build would be:
1) Impr Init
3) WF Warax
6) Quickdraw
6 F1bf)WSpec WrAx
7 F2bf) Power Attack
9 )Impr 2Wf
9 F4bf Wpn Spec
12) Cleave
15) ? Melee Wpn Mastery if PHBII ok
18) ?
In the MIC there's the Strongarm Bracers which let you wield a weapon one size larger then normal, I also added the sizing enhancement to both waraxes so they do 2d8 base damage and he can use captured Lg weapons
If you can get the staggering strike feat from CAd, take it ASAP, it rocks. my DM made me retrain it since it was too good after I got a crit and rocked a dragon for 93 pts and it failed it's fort save.
The figure I'm using is a dwarf mounted on a bear, so I actually have the Wild Cohort feat. The bear grapples the enemy then I lean over and whack them since they are denied dex.
If SpellCompendium is allowed, then get Girallons Blessing via a wand or the party cleric. If gives you 4 arms to fight with, I typically have 2 waraxes and a Bow ready. But you also get 4 claw attacks at full BAB and SA dice (plus rend if 2 hit) with all of them. I've done that with a Rg/Chameleon before.
Playing in CoCo has been great, actually - really sharpens build-design and strategic thinking; however, in terms of core only rogue, I think the advice you got up above this post is pretty sound. Focus on either bluff-feinting and sneak attack, TWF sneak attack, spring attack, or ranged combat - and a few levels of fighter never hurt. UMD is great, depending on the DM and setting, of course.
If you're dealing with a rogue in a core environment, even if you have full martial from your Fighter levels, you aren't going to have access to Oversized TWF (which is one of the very rare feats for "hold a really big sword" that may not actually be a trap, but not for the reasons you think it is). Since you're probably using a matched set of weapons (to make the most of your feats: Weapon Focus and similar weapon-specific feats would apply to weapons in both hands), those weapons have to be light to keep the attack penalty managable (medium base attack on the majority of your levels means attack bonus is a scarce resource on your build).
However, even if it IS available, it wouldn't be worth using in most cases. Consider, for instance, a pair of Short Swords over a pair of Longswords. You can remove the oversized penalty on the longswords with Oversized TWF, but that costs you a feat. What does that feat buy you? 1d8 base (average 4.5) damage instead of 1d6 (average 3.5), per attack. +2 damage, on par with Weapon Specialization you say... except that's +1 spread out over multiple attacks (two chances to miss, so your low AB will come back to bite you), and for the same feat cost, you can get Weapon Specialization (Short Sword), for +2 to each short sword attack.
Note that in both cases, though, you'll be getting the majority of your damage per hit from Sneak Attack. Sneak Attack doesn't care about your weapon: A high level rogue would deal 2d6+8d6 (average 35) with a greatsword, or 1+8d6 (average 29, or 80% of what you would have done with the best general martial weapon in the game) with a toothpick.
Rogue does fine in core.
When we ask for starting level, it is for a reason. If you are starting at level 20 we can give a build that probably doesn't work so hot on levels 1-6 but is awesome at the end. If you say starting at 1, but want help through the 20th level, we will give a build that can hold its own all the way through.
I say go rogue 19/Fighter 1. (Getting the +16 BAB is nice for the 4th attack, but in core that means you give up a lot of sneak attack, and in the end its probably not worth it). Rogue 20 doesn't give much so snag a feat.
Feats (Note outside of core I do not suggest many of these feats, but since you are limited they aren't as bad)
- H- Two Weapon Fighting
- 1- Weapon Focus
- 3- Weapon Finesse
- 6- Two Weapon Defense
- 9- Improved TWF
- 12- Combat Reflexes
- 15- Point Blank Shot
- 18- Greater TWF
- F1- Precise Shot
Stat Order Dex>Con>Str>Int>Cha=Wis
Special Abilities- Skill Mastery (UMD), Opportunist, Improved Evasion, Slippery Mind (Sort of in order to take, but not really)
Skills - UMD, Tumble, Spot, Listen, Search, Disable Device
Items-
- daggers are thrown, so i wouldn't worry about a bow.
- Ring of blinking is awesome
- Wands of spells you want to cast make you a mock spellcaster
- +X items of [stat] are very important. As are the books of +X [stat] I'd at least get dex, con, str.
I suggest Ranger 2/Rogue 18.
Choose if you want +6 skill points or +2 hit points and +1 BAB at first level. The latter allows you to take weapon focus and weapon finesse immediately, otherwise you're going to need a fighter level or wait until level 3.
If you go dagger, don't forget to take advantage of throwing opportunities and feats. Sniping with a dagger array is good strategy. Precise shot, point blank shot and far shot are all worthwhile for a dagger build.
Probably the most 'iconic' feat for a rogue is Darkstalker, which lets your MS/HS checks work against tremorsense, blindsight and the like, but it's not core.
Note that if you take fighter levels, it's going to impact your skill points pretty hard, and you're going to have to make choices on what to keep maximized. The fighter skill list is pretty slim. I suppose it can't hurt to have lots of ranks in Jump and Ride...on the flip side, two levels of fighter and two levels of ranger is +6 to your Fort save, effectively giving you a strong Fort Save, while your ranger levels keep your Dex save high.
==Aelryinth
he doesn't need str for anything, none of his feats require it, and his damage comes from adding sneak attack, and with weapon finesse he don't need it for + hit, INT > STR on core rogues.
Those first 3 levels are tough, and I got the impression this was from level 1 onwards.
I find a human rogue gets plenty of skill points without a super high int and would rather grab a few extra damage each hit. Most of the skills can be worked around with a spellcaster hanging around, or become irrelavent past level 5 or so. Jump, Climb, Balance.. So dropping 4 or 5 ranks into those and then never touching them again is a valid tactic.
Honestly, things you can't sneak attack you are screwed either way so it doesn't really matter.