Could use help with... The Forcerer!

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

Senevri

Mar 05, 2010 10:34:10
FORCERER!
Basics: Sorcerer 5, Planar substitution level losing 2nd slot.
Argent Savant for +2 damage on all force damage dice = all elemental spells
Abjurant Champion just for kicks, and to get up to +11 bonus from Shield.
(IT GOES UP TO ELEVEN!)

Current build for new people:
Planar Sorcerer 6/Mindbender 1/X2/Argent Savant 3/Abjurant Champion 5/Paragnostic Apostle 3
Reserved feats:
 Combat Casting, Eschew Materials, Snowcasting. 
Would-be-nice feats: energy substitution,+admixture+practical metamagic, versatile spellcaster, fiery spell. Since all spells are cold, SF: and GSF: Cold. Since we lose 1 CL, practiced spellcaster.
Loses 1 caster level.
Mage Armor = +8 AC, greater = +10. Shield = quickened, extended +11. 
Requires a bit of int.

Rebuild Version: Sorcerer 6/Virtuoso or Bard 1/Warblade 1/Jade Phoenix Mage 1/Argent Savant 1/Sublime Chord 2/Argent Savant +2/Jade Phoenix +4/Abjurant Champion 2. 
Or: drop 1 JPM to get a dip in paragnostic apostle for +2 on Armor spell AC or +1 CL on all spells.

Eschew Materials + Snowcasting - whoops all your spells are elemental, I mean, force spells. 
(A blatant lie, only spells that are force by default and ones which deal HP damage are force spells. Do note spells like Maw of Chaos, Horrid Wilting et al become force spells, too)

Admixture to double the dice involved.

The rest is just, boring practical details. :P Probably works best as a mailman of some sort.

Dragonblood + Practical Admixture + Versatile + Thesis Maw of Chaos --- was that a double duration I saw there, for free, too?
Good. That's at CL 20, um.... 1200d6+1200 damage. remember the +1 per die.
Good enough. Or, just plain ol' Fire Orbs, 30d6+30 is really okay, most of the time.
Disintegrate? 80d6+80?
Finger of Death, even on failure dealing 6d6+46 damage?

There's never enough feats, of course.

I'm not sure if one also needs further MM cheapeners, and I'm just generally putzing around. It'd be nice to get some further cold specializations in, or somesuch.

The attempt below... Well, elves get martial WP in longsword, so easy abchamp, Argent Savant didn't have any goodies above 3rd, and since the casting gets broken anyway, I figured, why not just rebuild it?

Hardly optimal. Ended sorta gishy, too.

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Gray Elf/Gnome Sorcerer 5 -1 2nd slot, 5energy spells half force [force!]!
BAB +3
Virtuoso 1 Warblade 1 +1 BAB
Jade Phoenix Mage 1 +1 BAB
Argent Savant 1
---rebuild starts---
Sublime Chord 2
Argent Savant +2 BAB +2
Abjurant Champion 3 BAB +3
Jade Phoenix Mage +3, BAB +3

Argent Savant: +2 atk force spells, +1 damage / +1 damage per die! +2 AC from defensive force spells (mage armor, shield) +4 CL vs. dispel, free extend all!  

Abjurant Champion: +3 AC from abjuration spells (shield) Extend all abjuration spells. Swift 1st abjurations

Jade Phoenix Mage: Arcane Wrath, swift +4, 1d10/lv
Mystic Phoenix Stance: +1 CL, +2 Dodge AC, DR 2perSL/Evil max 10
Empowering Strike: 1/encounter on-hit, next round cast empowered

Feats: 1 Combat Casting, 3 Eschew Materials, 6 Snowcasting, 9 Energy Sub ,12 Energy Admixture, 15, 18

Stats: STR 10 DEX 12 CON 13 INT 12 WIS 10 CHA 25

Spells: Thunderlance: +Cha ATK, +Cha Damage, 3d6+3 base. up to 6d6+6+CHA, of course.
Shield: Swift, Duration 2xCL, +9 AC
Greater Mage Armor: +8 AC
#2

carnivore

Mar 05, 2010 11:09:08
use Star Elf .... -2 Con, +2 Cha .. instead of Gray Elf if you want a boost to Cha for a straight Arcane caster..... but to avoid XP penalties... use Wild Elf -2 Int,+2 Dex, Fav Class: Sorceror, if you want to use Warblade


Laughing

#3

Senevri

Mar 05, 2010 13:00:01
Yeah, oops. Star elf, I'd say. This easily makes a rather decent Gish, if one goes abjurant champion... and why shouldn't one? 

What are feat options? I think Eschew + Snowcasting to get all HP spells under Force bonuses is too good to give up, but what else is there? I'm sort of lost in feat-space, right now.

Shadowcraft might work, since shadow evocations have cold subtype and can deal HP damage, the abilities should work fine with that.

I'd rather not rebuild casting, though.

I took a look at Lord of the Uttercold, but it was meh. 

There's a set of improvement feats in Frostburn that require you to be in a cold environment. Create Water + Blackwater Invocation could qualify for that. Requires ability to channel, though... not so bad for rebuild option, as you can dip cleric, and snatch domains that keep your CL up.

I guess you could set your Admixture target to fire, and get Fiery Spell for additional point of damage per die. :/

In any case, Sorcerer 5. 

So, on my feat wish list, there's... Eschew Materials, Snowcasting, Energy Sub, Energy Admixture, maybe Fiery Spell. I really really like versatile spellcaster but it's not strictly necessary. First level of Argent Savant before 11th, for rebuilding... If we go Stoneblessed, we could shadowcraft... 
Star Elf Sorcerer 6/Argent Savant 1/Stoneblessed 3.. wait, no. Can't rebuild that way, unless... Nah, but that gives me an idea for a Nar DB build. Still, if we take the 1-level hit as we pick... well, actually, Bard is probably superior to virtuoso, but never-the-less, rest of the build looks like Virtuoso 1/SubChord 2/Shadowcraft Mage 5/Argent Savant +2, for an example. +2 damage per die on all HP-damage dealing spells.

Empower Metamagic should probably go in the mix somewhere - it effectively gets the damage to 3 extra points per dice, which is slightly better than having a extra d4 per die.

*edit*: Paragnostic Apostle, Free +1 CL with cold spells, which, y'know, all. Free +2 AC on spells that provide armor bonus.  Can you say +10 Greater Mage Armor? :D

*edit2* Control Temperature spell... but I think that's veering on a different build, entirely.
So, as simple as possible: Sorcerer 6, X 3, Argent Savant 3, Paragnostic Apostle at least 2, but up to 4 - Divine Understanding is nice, as are... all of the cl increasers. Abjurant Champion 5 is fine, if we can fit it. Levels 10-20 would be Argent Savant 3, Paragnostic Apostle 3, Abjurant Champion 5. Total loss of 1 caster level, and doing the Subchord could fix that, too. Two spells (both extended for free and the other quickened, to boot) would grant +21 AC, or 31 total. Drop in Bite of the Werebear to get a respectable +38 AC without items, or Body of War for... +56 AC. Huh.
To clarify:

Sorcerer 6/Mindbender 1/X2/Argent Savant 3/Abjurant Champion 5/Paragnostic Apostle 3
Reserved feats:
Combat Casting, Eschew Materials, Snowcasting. 
Loses 1 caster level.

Rest are essentially, or perhaps theoretically, free. BAB is... probably 11, but will suck until you go through the Abjurant Champion phase.

My usual random thoughts: 
Wyrm wizard, er, wizards can get arcane fusion. Cast two spells from my spells known, you say? 
They're not, admittedly, Sorcerer spells I know, but might still be useful for the Ultimate Magi.... 

Planar bubble used on a summon from a plane whose traits you want available on your spells? Gate in a Nightwing and cast a planar bubble on it to maximize your completely real shadow evocation. Like Sonic Rumble. Admixtured to 140 points, with a duration of 2 rounds per caster level? Then, you stack a second on top of the last, by using, oh, swift concentration trick or Extraordinary Concentration feat. 
That's... Hm. 4800 damage. Now, Nanoha can do that in a 20ft by 240ft line, too.

Probably a Mindbender Dip... surewhynot....

 Q: what happens, when a Paragnostic Apostle/5th-level Abchamp casts scintillating scales on someone with one point of natural armor? Is the deflection bonus +1, or +8?

Digression: What  would a... Factotum 5, Chameleon 4, Bard 1, Sublime Chord 1, Ultimate Magus look like?
Subchord level is actually quite low, since while chameleon CL is 8, it's only 4 levels on subchord.
Thus, Chameleon 8/subchord 5 gives... all odd levels to subchord, thus we get a full subchord casting, and chameleon gets +6 levels, netting _it's full casting, albeit at a lower caster level than it would as a pure chameleon.  

Of course, whether subchord qualifies for ultimate magus without extra slot, or somesuch, is debatable.
#4

Senevri

Mar 06, 2010 12:20:10
An entirely different theme, but... well, it's a sorcerer. Nominally pathfinder, but could probably be done with 3.5.

The theme was, 'reality warper'. Kind of powerful, and can really really prepare well. Can use Moment of Prescience to gain a bonus on Craft:Trapmaking - which should probably be maxed, so... that's a craft check of, um, let's say around 45-65. Shadow Creation for a, say, 'glaive of doom' trap. 

Loses one caster level, but access to Miracle is probably worth it. haven't fully crunched the numbers or bought gear, though - Belt of Battle is probably a good pick.
Further spells would include True Resurrection and Genesis, at epic, pushing fiend-blooded to completion is probably a good idea. 

These are the high level picks... different choices when playing from 0. I'd retain alter self, as _it doesn't touch your physical scores_. Thus, you can, say, (miracle) bite of the weretiger, and retain a normal appereance.

anyhoo,
Show
 
forest gnome, 
Arcane Bloodline Sorcerer (K:Planes), Eschew Materials
bloodline arcana +1 mm dc not heighten
metamagic adept: 1/day no increased casting time
lose familiar for School Mastery: Illusion (+1cl, +10% shadow reality)

Sorcerer 5/Shadowcraft Mage 5/Fiend-blooded 6/archmage 2/wyrm wizard 2


1 blood calls for blood
3 earth sense
5 heighten
7 sf:illusion
9 earth spell
11 skillf:spellcraft
13 sf: transmutation
15 arcane thesis, silent image
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Reality Warper spells known:

9 detect poison, detect magic, read magic, light, mage hand, meding, open/close, prestidigitation
5 obscuring mist, unseen servant, animate rope, enlarge person, reduce person, identify
5 alter self, pyrotechnics, levitate, mirror image, knock, invisibility
4 fly, gaseous form, shrink item, haste, clairaudience/clairvoyance
4 stone shape, shadow conjuration, Assay SR, dimensional anchor
4 fabricate, mirage arcana, shadow evocation, Greater Dimension Door
3 control water, move earth, true seeing, mislead
3 limited wish, greater teleport, control weather, greater shadow conjuration
3 polymorph any object, greater shadow evocation, moment of prescience, Greater Plane Shift
3 time stop, miracle, shapechange
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