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Counterspeller help

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
neptunehero
Apr 13, 2008 16:39:18 One of the players in my group has tired of his archivist and decided he wants to play a counterspeller. We're playing in a magic-heavy campaign, so the idea is a pretty good one, but neither he nor I nor anyone with whom we play has any experience building such a character. And so we come here for your aid.

The character will be level 6; all non-Eberron WotC books are allowed. He doesn't have much of a build yet, but he's theoretically looking at a wizard, probably sun elf, with Improved Counterspell, Improved Initiative and Reactive Counterspell (MoF), taking Elven Spell Lore (phb2) at 9th level.

All of this is still in the air; if you know of a particularly good race for this, or a better class than wizard, or different feats he ought to be taking, he's open to suggestions. Also, if you know any other interesting tactics that can be employed by a character like this or have any experience with the concept, feel free to share that as well.

Thanks in advance.
#2
littlefreak_dup
Apr 13, 2008 16:43:38 The best for counterspelling is cleric with undeath domain (for extra turning) and the feat Divine defiance from Fiendish Codex II that lets you burn a turn attempt for counter a spell as a immediate action.
get extra turning and nightsticks.
#3
sinfire_titan
Apr 13, 2008 16:51:33 Screw that!

Evokers. Best way to counter a spell? Make sure that they can never make the Concentration check by whacking them in the face with a nice Scorching Ray from hell.

Focused Specialist (Conjuration or Evocation) with banned Necromancy, Illusion, and Enchantment (you'll want Abjuration and everything else). Get a ton of metamagic enablers, and a Coure Eladrin familiar (or Imp) and have max CC ranks in UMD/P to have double actions each round for optimal counter-magic.
#4
zopzop
Apr 13, 2008 16:56:02 One quick question since we are talking about counter-spelling. Is it possible to counter-spell a mage's disjunction or (greater) dispel magic?

For example, if you have a persistent divine power on you and you are about to get hit with a mage's disjunction (or dispel magic), can you counter-spell it? If so how?
#5
Omen_of_Peace
Apr 13, 2008 17:00:59 Cloistered Cleric 1/Wizard Abjurer 3/Master Specialist 6/IoSV 7/Archmage 1/MS +2
with Inquisition and Undeath domain
Arcane Mastery (CA), Divine Defiance (FC2) & Elven Spell Lore (PHB2) feats
Mastery of Counterspelling
[Take a look at the Wizard's Handbook - post 11 - for some spells & items to go with it.]

This is almost overkill in terms of how good it'll be with dispelling [with the 3rd level Dispel, your check is already 10 AM + 10 CL + 10 bonuses = 30 ; add Spellcaster's Bane (CM spell) for 32 and you automatically dispel CL 21 spells...].
I plan on doing a Counterspelling Compilation soon - I've got most of it down in my notes.
Note that RAW Divine Defiance allows you to counter SLAs...

edit: you can counterspell Disjunction and Dispels just like other spells - with the exact same spell, or with a dispel and a caster level check.
#6
sinfire_titan
Apr 13, 2008 17:13:53 You are good Ome, but no matter how good you are at Counterspelling someone, when the opponent forces a Concentration check DC:Brain Damage down your throat, you know you are screwed.
#7
Omen_of_Peace
Apr 13, 2008 17:27:26
You are good Ome, but no matter how good you are at Counterspelling someone, when the opponent forces a Concentration check DC:Brain Damage down your throat, you know you are screwed.

Perhaps, but I personally hate readying actions with a passion if I can avoid it (and Counterspellers can). As soon as Imbue Familiar with SA becomes available, I agree it makes for a good tactic to use your familiar for that. Of course, Abjurers will use their familiars too...
#8
vicen_korel
Apr 14, 2008 1:13:58 It would be hard to get too but Abjurant Champion would let you Quicken Dispel magic after you hit the fifth level of it. IMO Dampen spell can kill a lot of spells quickly by rendering the DC to low to worry about. Initiate of the 7fold veil has some countering options too and some of its wards can block spells. In most cases rendering the spells useless through Globes of Inv, or the like can work better than waiting to counter them. Anything that forces them to have Spell failure can help too. Bestow Deafness is great for that 20% failure rate from not being able to hear your own spell.
#9
Omen_of_Peace
Apr 14, 2008 3:04:21 Handbook

If they fail their Fort save against Deafness, you could have done much worse to them. Like... Blindness (no targetting without line of sight, no LoS without vision). They can still use AoEs, but risk missing/causing friendly fire.
#10
bonzai
Apr 14, 2008 14:52:07 If I remember right, Nachtomancer and mage killer were both good at counterspelling.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 neptunehero Apr 13, 2008 16:39:18	One of the players in my group has tired of his archivist and decided he wants to play a counterspeller. We're playing in a magic-heavy campaign, so the idea is a pretty good one, but neither he nor I nor anyone with whom we play has any experience building such a character. And so we come here for your aid. The character will be level 6; all non-Eberron WotC books are allowed. He doesn't have much of a build yet, but he's theoretically looking at a wizard, probably sun elf, with Improved Counterspell, Improved Initiative and Reactive Counterspell (MoF), taking Elven Spell Lore (phb2) at 9th level. All of this is still in the air; if you know of a particularly good race for this, or a better class than wizard, or different feats he ought to be taking, he's open to suggestions. Also, if you know any other interesting tactics that can be employed by a character like this or have any experience with the concept, feel free to share that as well. Thanks in advance.
#2 littlefreak_dup Apr 13, 2008 16:43:38	The best for counterspelling is cleric with undeath domain (for extra turning) and the feat Divine defiance from Fiendish Codex II that lets you burn a turn attempt for counter a spell as a immediate action. get extra turning and nightsticks.
#3 sinfire_titan Apr 13, 2008 16:51:33	Screw that! Evokers. Best way to counter a spell? Make sure that they can never make the Concentration check by whacking them in the face with a nice Scorching Ray from hell. Focused Specialist (Conjuration or Evocation) with banned Necromancy, Illusion, and Enchantment (you'll want Abjuration and everything else). Get a ton of metamagic enablers, and a Coure Eladrin familiar (or Imp) and have max CC ranks in UMD/P to have double actions each round for optimal counter-magic.
#4 zopzop Apr 13, 2008 16:56:02	One quick question since we are talking about counter-spelling. Is it possible to counter-spell a mage's disjunction or (greater) dispel magic? For example, if you have a persistent divine power on you and you are about to get hit with a mage's disjunction (or dispel magic), can you counter-spell it? If so how?
#5 Omen_of_Peace Apr 13, 2008 17:00:59	Cloistered Cleric 1/Wizard Abjurer 3/Master Specialist 6/IoSV 7/Archmage 1/MS +2 with Inquisition and Undeath domain Arcane Mastery (CA), Divine Defiance (FC2) & Elven Spell Lore (PHB2) feats Mastery of Counterspelling [Take a look at the Wizard's Handbook - post 11 - for some spells & items to go with it.] This is almost overkill in terms of how good it'll be with dispelling [with the 3rd level Dispel, your check is already 10 AM + 10 CL + 10 bonuses = 30 ; add Spellcaster's Bane (CM spell) for 32 and you automatically dispel CL 21 spells...]. I plan on doing a Counterspelling Compilation soon - I've got most of it down in my notes. Note that RAW Divine Defiance allows you to counter SLAs... edit: you can counterspell Disjunction and Dispels just like other spells - with the exact same spell, or with a dispel and a caster level check.
#6 sinfire_titan Apr 13, 2008 17:13:53	You are good Ome, but no matter how good you are at Counterspelling someone, when the opponent forces a Concentration check DC:Brain Damage down your throat, you know you are screwed.
#7 Omen_of_Peace Apr 13, 2008 17:27:26	You are good Ome, but no matter how good you are at Counterspelling someone, when the opponent forces a Concentration check DC:Brain Damage down your throat, you know you are screwed. Perhaps, but I personally hate readying actions with a passion if I can avoid it (and Counterspellers can). As soon as Imbue Familiar with SA becomes available, I agree it makes for a good tactic to use your familiar for that. Of course, Abjurers will use their familiars too...
#8 vicen_korel Apr 14, 2008 1:13:58	It would be hard to get too but Abjurant Champion would let you Quicken Dispel magic after you hit the fifth level of it. IMO Dampen spell can kill a lot of spells quickly by rendering the DC to low to worry about. Initiate of the 7fold veil has some countering options too and some of its wards can block spells. In most cases rendering the spells useless through Globes of Inv, or the like can work better than waiting to counter them. Anything that forces them to have Spell failure can help too. Bestow Deafness is great for that 20% failure rate from not being able to hear your own spell.
#9 Omen_of_Peace Apr 14, 2008 3:04:21	Handbook If they fail their Fort save against Deafness, you could have done much worse to them. Like... Blindness (no targetting without line of sight, no LoS without vision). They can still use AoEs, but risk missing/causing friendly fire.
#10 bonzai Apr 14, 2008 14:52:07	If I remember right, Nachtomancer and mage killer were both good at counterspelling.