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Court Herald Optimization

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zarzak
Apr 15, 2008 22:14:51 Hi all,

The Court Herald (Power of Faerun 108) is a pretty cool class in my opinion. A while ago on the boards I got some help from PI in finding the errata and working out some questions I had on the class, because as printed its unplayable (missing a LOT of vital information).

Using the class and the errata, what would people recommend be done to optimize the court herald (in a built ideally using all 12 of the prc's levels)?

My take on it is Factotum 8/Court Herald 12. You'd need Skill Focus (Knowledge(Any)) for entry into the prc, and Practiced Spellcaster would probably be a really good idea (to bump your CL up to 16). That said, in a non-human build, there are still 6-7 feats remaining (5 normal, 1 bonus, and an optional one from the Court Herald's "secret"). I'm thinking using as many Fonts of Inspiration as you can, in order to power cunning surge. But other than that ... ideas? Thoughts?

*edit* My older thread, for reference
#2
x-codes
Apr 15, 2008 23:35:23 The problem with Factotum is the Int/Cha split.

Of course, not many other classes can work either. Spellcasters generally need not apply because of the halt in their previous progression, getting both Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) and Knowledge (History) as class skills is a pain, and the low BAB of the class pretty much nixes a combat focus unless you somehow manage to get Divine Power. So, that basically leaves us with Factotum and screwing around with Complete Champion.

The main weakness of the Court Herald is the utter lack of combat potency, and around here thats a pretty nasty weakness. The obvious way to rectify this would be Arcane Strike, but alas, poor BAB. Since you want to take all 12 levels, that also takes away the bulk of Shadowcraft Mage's power (of course, you'd need to shenanigan a Shadow Spell onto the spell list in the first place to go that way).

I'm thinking something along the lines of a Paladin/Witch Slayer entry with a one-level dip into Ordained Champion to put the War domain on the Court Herald spell list, but that would require some shenanigans because of the weak skill set of the Paladin.
#3
zarzak
Apr 16, 2008 0:27:59
The problem with Factotum is the Int/Cha split.

Of course, not many other classes can work either. Spellcasters generally need not apply because of the halt in their previous progression, getting both Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) and Knowledge (History) as class skills is a pain, and the low BAB of the class pretty much nixes a combat focus unless you somehow manage to get Divine Power. So, that basically leaves us with Factotum and screwing around with Complete Champion.

The main weakness of the Court Herald is the utter lack of combat potency, and around here thats a pretty nasty weakness. The obvious way to rectify this would be Arcane Strike, but alas, poor BAB. Since you want to take all 12 levels, that also takes away the bulk of Shadowcraft Mage's power (of course, you'd need to shenanigan a Shadow Spell onto the spell list in the first place to go that way).

I'm thinking something along the lines of a Paladin/Witch Slayer entry with a one-level dip into Ordained Champion to put the War domain on the Court Herald spell list, but that would require some shenanigans because of the weak skill set of the Paladin.

Well, obviously with Court Herald the focus can't be on combat. You have some spells which can be useful in combat situations - you'd probably have to be tricky about it. Factotum at least gets some situational combat utility from its versatility.

The INT/CHA split isn't so big an issue - its inherent in Court Herald (requires INT for secrets + tons of skills/languages + CHA for casting). For the character INT/CHA would be the focus, with CON or DEX being secondary. STR and WIS would probably be dump stats.

Paladin/Witch Slayer entry would require massive shenanigans for the skills required, I agree - any ideas on how to do it? ... Bard also works as an entry, but its not as strong as factotum in my opinion.
#4
x-codes
Apr 16, 2008 2:39:31 It would probably take about 14 Int + Human, for 5 skill points per level from Paladin. Skilled City Dweller is a variant from the Cityscape Web Enhancement giving Gather Information as a class skill.

So, skills go as such...
#5
zarzak
Apr 16, 2008 12:13:38 Hmm. OK.

So if you go Paladin/Witch Slayer/Ordained Champion:

You get +8 BAB
+9 fort, +1 ref, +6 will - + CHA to saves
the nice paladin earlier abilties (immunities, aura, smite evil, turn undead, etc.)
mettle
war domain spells as options
In addition you have lots of free feats for turning feats or whatnot. What would you recommend?

Downsides: Very limited turning uses, very limited smite uses - unless you go elf paladin for ranged smite you probably still don't want to be in melee due to horrible BAB/HD for over half your career. Oh, and like you said, you have to have at least 16 INT (if you're an elf) and 12 WIS ... and you use all of your skill points for entry requirements.

If you go Factotum:
You get:
+6 BAB
+2 fort, +6 ref, +2 will
tons of inspiration points and various uses for them (CUNNING SURGE, extra AC, extra damage, etc.), and very very limited spellcasting.

Downsides: You need to invest all of your feats towards inspiration points, b/c it is the only way you'll be at all effective in combat.

----

So Paladin entry has slightly higher BAB (not by much, and not enough to get another iterative attack at level 20), and much higher saves. Both have very nice abilities .... hmmm.
#6
zarzak
Apr 16, 2008 12:32:36 Maybe feats for the paladin entry (assume elf paladin for ranged capabilities) could go something like:

1) Nymph's Kiss - you need the skill points
3) Skill Focus (Knowledge (Any)) - pre-req
6) Precise Shot - you'll be doing ranged combat a lot
9) Practiced Spellcaster - for court herald CL
12) Point Blank Shot - ranged combat
12 court herald) you have a secret at this level, you could get a feat (or at the next secret) - Divine Might
15) Many Shot - ranged combat
17 bonus) Sacred Vitality - put those turning attempts to good use!
18) Rapid Shot - more ranged combat?

Of course, since you have a unicorn mount, mounted archery could be nice too ... but the mount will be pretty weak soon after you get it.

With this feat set up you never need to go into close range combat - you can stay behind and control things with your court herald magic, or dish out damage with your bow + ranged smite evil. Nymph's Kiss drops the intelligence requirement back down to 14 from 16, which is somewhat more reasonable.

Its still a bit madder than the factotum entry though. CHA needs to be high, INT needs to be 14, WIS needs to be 12 ... and you need a good DEX too. Probably a decent STR for damage output (unless you have some weird special bow). You'll be somewhat of a glass cannon, though ...

*EDIT* How necessary is ordained champion, anyway? You could replace it with targeteer from dragon #310, and get DEX to damage for your ranged attacks, making STR more of a dump stat and reducing MAD. You don't get the war domain's granted ability, only the option to choose its spells to learn as a court herald. Divine Power is good, and Flame Strike provides some nice damage as well ... dunno if I'd choose blade barrier (antimagic field, contingency, permanent image, programmed image ... all more useful). Magic weapon is fairly useless, as is magic vestment. I've never had spiritual weapon actually be useful in a game, sadly.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zarzak Apr 15, 2008 22:14:51	Hi all, The Court Herald (Power of Faerun 108) is a pretty cool class in my opinion. A while ago on the boards I got some help from PI in finding the errata and working out some questions I had on the class, because as printed its unplayable (missing a LOT of vital information). Using the class and the errata, what would people recommend be done to optimize the court herald (in a built ideally using all 12 of the prc's levels)? My take on it is Factotum 8/Court Herald 12. You'd need Skill Focus (Knowledge(Any)) for entry into the prc, and Practiced Spellcaster would probably be a really good idea (to bump your CL up to 16). That said, in a non-human build, there are still 6-7 feats remaining (5 normal, 1 bonus, and an optional one from the Court Herald's "secret"). I'm thinking using as many Fonts of Inspiration as you can, in order to power cunning surge. But other than that ... ideas? Thoughts? edit My older thread, for reference
#2 x-codes Apr 15, 2008 23:35:23	The problem with Factotum is the Int/Cha split. Of course, not many other classes can work either. Spellcasters generally need not apply because of the halt in their previous progression, getting both Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) and Knowledge (History) as class skills is a pain, and the low BAB of the class pretty much nixes a combat focus unless you somehow manage to get Divine Power. So, that basically leaves us with Factotum and screwing around with Complete Champion. The main weakness of the Court Herald is the utter lack of combat potency, and around here thats a pretty nasty weakness. The obvious way to rectify this would be Arcane Strike, but alas, poor BAB. Since you want to take all 12 levels, that also takes away the bulk of Shadowcraft Mage's power (of course, you'd need to shenanigan a Shadow Spell onto the spell list in the first place to go that way). I'm thinking something along the lines of a Paladin/Witch Slayer entry with a one-level dip into Ordained Champion to put the War domain on the Court Herald spell list, but that would require some shenanigans because of the weak skill set of the Paladin.
#3 zarzak Apr 16, 2008 0:27:59	The problem with Factotum is the Int/Cha split. Of course, not many other classes can work either. Spellcasters generally need not apply because of the halt in their previous progression, getting both Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) and Knowledge (History) as class skills is a pain, and the low BAB of the class pretty much nixes a combat focus unless you somehow manage to get Divine Power. So, that basically leaves us with Factotum and screwing around with Complete Champion. The main weakness of the Court Herald is the utter lack of combat potency, and around here thats a pretty nasty weakness. The obvious way to rectify this would be Arcane Strike, but alas, poor BAB. Since you want to take all 12 levels, that also takes away the bulk of Shadowcraft Mage's power (of course, you'd need to shenanigan a Shadow Spell onto the spell list in the first place to go that way). I'm thinking something along the lines of a Paladin/Witch Slayer entry with a one-level dip into Ordained Champion to put the War domain on the Court Herald spell list, but that would require some shenanigans because of the weak skill set of the Paladin. Well, obviously with Court Herald the focus can't be on combat. You have some spells which can be useful in combat situations - you'd probably have to be tricky about it. Factotum at least gets some situational combat utility from its versatility. The INT/CHA split isn't so big an issue - its inherent in Court Herald (requires INT for secrets + tons of skills/languages + CHA for casting). For the character INT/CHA would be the focus, with CON or DEX being secondary. STR and WIS would probably be dump stats. Paladin/Witch Slayer entry would require massive shenanigans for the skills required, I agree - any ideas on how to do it? ... Bard also works as an entry, but its not as strong as factotum in my opinion.
#4 x-codes Apr 16, 2008 2:39:31	It would probably take about 14 Int + Human, for 5 skill points per level from Paladin. Skilled City Dweller is a variant from the Cityscape Web Enhancement giving Gather Information as a class skill. So, skills go as such...
#5 zarzak Apr 16, 2008 12:13:38	Hmm. OK. So if you go Paladin/Witch Slayer/Ordained Champion: You get +8 BAB +9 fort, +1 ref, +6 will - + CHA to saves the nice paladin earlier abilties (immunities, aura, smite evil, turn undead, etc.) mettle war domain spells as options In addition you have lots of free feats for turning feats or whatnot. What would you recommend? Downsides: Very limited turning uses, very limited smite uses - unless you go elf paladin for ranged smite you probably still don't want to be in melee due to horrible BAB/HD for over half your career. Oh, and like you said, you have to have at least 16 INT (if you're an elf) and 12 WIS ... and you use all of your skill points for entry requirements. If you go Factotum: You get: +6 BAB +2 fort, +6 ref, +2 will tons of inspiration points and various uses for them (CUNNING SURGE, extra AC, extra damage, etc.), and very very limited spellcasting. Downsides: You need to invest all of your feats towards inspiration points, b/c it is the only way you'll be at all effective in combat. ---- So Paladin entry has slightly higher BAB (not by much, and not enough to get another iterative attack at level 20), and much higher saves. Both have very nice abilities .... hmmm.
#6 zarzak Apr 16, 2008 12:32:36	Maybe feats for the paladin entry (assume elf paladin for ranged capabilities) could go something like: 1) Nymph's Kiss - you need the skill points 3) Skill Focus (Knowledge (Any)) - pre-req 6) Precise Shot - you'll be doing ranged combat a lot 9) Practiced Spellcaster - for court herald CL 12) Point Blank Shot - ranged combat 12 court herald) you have a secret at this level, you could get a feat (or at the next secret) - Divine Might 15) Many Shot - ranged combat 17 bonus) Sacred Vitality - put those turning attempts to good use! 18) Rapid Shot - more ranged combat? Of course, since you have a unicorn mount, mounted archery could be nice too ... but the mount will be pretty weak soon after you get it. With this feat set up you never need to go into close range combat - you can stay behind and control things with your court herald magic, or dish out damage with your bow + ranged smite evil. Nymph's Kiss drops the intelligence requirement back down to 14 from 16, which is somewhat more reasonable. Its still a bit madder than the factotum entry though. CHA needs to be high, INT needs to be 14, WIS needs to be 12 ... and you need a good DEX too. Probably a decent STR for damage output (unless you have some weird special bow). You'll be somewhat of a glass cannon, though ... EDIT How necessary is ordained champion, anyway? You could replace it with targeteer from dragon #310, and get DEX to damage for your ranged attacks, making STR more of a dump stat and reducing MAD. You don't get the war domain's granted ability, only the option to choose its spells to learn as a court herald. Divine Power is good, and Flame Strike provides some nice damage as well ... dunno if I'd choose blade barrier (antimagic field, contingency, permanent image, programmed image ... all more useful). Magic weapon is fairly useless, as is magic vestment. I've never had spiritual weapon actually be useful in a game, sadly.