Been a while since I posted, but I've still been lurking.
Anywhoo, considering the shift to 4th ed (
), I'm at a loss as to how to clear up an issue I had sort of a rules clarification and a question if there is anyway to improve on this.I'll start by noting that all 3.5ed WotC produced books are ok (possibly subject to final DM approval, but he's pretty easy going) however I don't know if LA buyoff will be possible so I'll request that not be done for further "optimizing". In addition, I'm fairly certain the DM is anti flaws so lets avoid that as well.
Ok, base rule out the box from the DM is that we could have up to a +2 LA/HD template/race. We're using a 28 pt buy.
Usually I build humans because I like extra feats and it has rarely stopped me from making some great builds. This time, however, I'm thinking of mixing it up some, and I saw a great race in the Races of Destiny book called Mongrelfolk. Love the abilities, etc..., plus it gives a few good bonuses in the right spots, specifically, Con adjustment. Race is a +0 LA.
I had heard about a template, thanks to the fine folks on these boards, called Mineral Warrior. It only has a +1 LA so that's pretty good considering what it gives you. In fact, too good according to the DM. He squashed the burrowing capability and the DR the template gave me. Sad, but still great stuff from that template, including a nice mod to my Con.
Then I heard about another template that gives me that wonderful ability of Hide in Plain Sight, the Dark template. It only has a +1 LA as well. However, despite not modifying my Con, it has plenty of other very useful abilities.
So that was my basis. Here after lies the troublesome issue.
I saw Fist of the Forest and immediately liked the idea of the Con bonus to AC, especially since this character was going to be filling a fighter type role in the party. High Con = high hps. Good. High Con = high hps AND high AC. Better.
Then I saw Deepwarden. Hrm, add my Con to my AC instead of my Dex if my Con is higher. High Con = high hps AND high AC x2. Awesome!
Problem is I need to be a dwarf. Not a problem as there is the Stoneblessed prestige class, which has the added benefit, beyond me being counted as a dwarf for PrC purposes, of giving me a +2 bonus to my Con.
Suffice to say, getting super high AC without pulling too many outrageous stunts grabbed my interest.
I started up with an 18 Con (cost me 16 of my 28 pts, but worth it), got +4 from Mongrelfolk and +4 from Mineral Warrior, making it 26, adding +2 from Stoneblessed gave me 28, added in level bonuses from 4th, 8th, 12th, and 16th HD gave me 32, and finally, adding on a +6 Con enhancement bonus item gave me 38. Not shabby, and if I can find a Tome for inherit bonus of +5, a final Con of 43 (giving me a +16 modifier).
So I came up with the following class build:
LA +2/Ranger 2/Monk 1/Stoneblessed 3/Fighter 1/Fist of the Forest 2/Deepwarden 2/Fighter +7
This gives me the Monk capability of adding in Wis to my AC, FotF Con to AC, Deepwarden Con to AC, a full BAB of +16 at ECL 20, and a progression that allows me to build up to Robliar's Gambit, with Crushing Strike, using Unarmed combat, with TWF, Flurry, Snapkick, and Hasted extra strike. Thus, 8 attacks in a full round, 5 of which are at my highest BAB, with the possiblity that if all 5 hit, my 6th attack against the same opponent gains +5 bonus to hit, cancelling the -5 for it being my 2nd highest BAB attack.
Anywhoo, as I mentioned, a high AC is really good, and I saw a possibility to do that with the FotF plus Deepwarden using just one stat that I already wanted to get high.
Problem: two different abilities, but they both say add Con bonus to AC.
Granted, they add it in different way/power, but it still seems like they are adding the same "type" of bonus, sort of like getting a deflection bonus from two different abilities. The deflection wouldn't stack despite gaining it from a different ability/power. Is this the case with the Con I'm trying to add to my AC?
At face value, it seems yes, but I've seen back and forths on something similar (can't seem to find it) on these boards and was wondering if maybe I could find a majority on this issue.
As for optimization, obviously I'm using Con for AC and hps, are there any other good ways I could use my Con modifier? Maybe to add to my to hit or damage or saves? I am planning on using Steadfast Determination so my Fort and Will saves are going to be great and I can't fail a Fort on a natural 1, which always seems to happen to me. Ha!
Anyway, I'm open to most suggestions, even if it is flipping class stuff around (or cancelling out some class stuff if your opinion is FotF and Deepwarden don't stack). I'd still like to keep it fighter oriented, but I'm interested in seeing how the board would run with this.
Thanks!
I'd considered becoming Dragonborn, but it seems that would remove just about everything except for stat mods from everything else I have. Going Dragonborn would add Fighter to my list of favored classes however, and it would give me another +2 bonus to my Con score. Just hate losing everything else from my templates and race.
It would be a different story if you still got DEX to AC, but since you are using CON to replace DEX, the bonuses are not 'identical'. You should be fine.
A few suggestions I have:
See if you can use the Book of Exalted Deeds, namely for Intuitive Attack (wis mod to attacks with simple and natural weapons, ie unarmed strike). This will further reduce your dependacy on other stats and have WIS and CON be your favored stats. **exalted feat**
Can you use Magic of the Incarnum? The 'spellcasting' in that book is heavily based on CON score and could add some decent combat ability (see Totemist). BAB would go down but you can get a plethora of additional natural attacks.
Therefore, even if they were exactly the same, they would stack.
Oh, btw, I do realize that the moment I reach a total level of 3 in Fighter, I'll start taking xp penalties, and at 4 in Fighter, I'll start taking 40% xp penalty.
Why would you take that many levels in fighter then? I'd take advantage of your Con in more ways. And also (IMO) make more sense of your mongrelfolk heritage.
LA +2/Ranger 2/Barbarian 1/Stoneblessed 3/Fighter 1/Fist of the Forest 2/Deepwarden 2/Fighter 1/Ninja 1/Frenzied Beserker 6
Take the Lion Totem Variant from Complete Champion for Pounce, Leap Attack (if your DM allows it to stack with Improved Power attack), and Instanteous Rage.
Undying Frenzy (I think that's the name of the frenzy ability) + Instantaneous Rage allows you to keep going with any number of hit points. Also, since you would have a really high AC for a Bezerker, you could utilize the charge ability of the Shock Trooper tactical feat very well.
Insightful strike does not add Wis to damage, so this build would add a bit more punch, while still keeping the attacks high (and getting Pounce!)
Rather, the template is wonderful. Its not worth 1 LA, because in the same book(Tome of Magic) there is a magic item(Collar of Umbral Metamaorphosis), that for 22,000gp, will give you the dark template permanently. 22,000gp < 1 Level.
I would say you should then take Dragonborn, since your GM has already removed the big things from Mineral Warrior. OR! You could take the feral template(And kill your mental stats even more!) to get some more con, and get pounce, so you can drop barbarian for some other stuff, if you want to take it for pounce.
Some things you could add: Moon-warded Ranger [DR347] which delays your combat style to 6th, but gives you Armor of the Senses (Wis to AC again). You'd lose out on TWF from Ranger unless you took it to 6th. But then you could take the Non-spellcasting variant at 4th, and also drop Animal Companion for Solitary Hunter and gain your Favored Enemy bonus to attack.
I see templates/LA and Stoneblessed as a waste of precious levels. Sure, they ramp up your Con, but you lose a feat, some BAB and your combat ability won't be that great.
//Rune
Before I get any flack, yes you can go from Monk, to chaotic for barbarian and lose none of your powers.
I thought Mongrelfolk counted as members of all humanoid races? Do you even need Stoneblessed?
Mongrelfolk can emulate races while using Magic Items, but the only race that I know of that can actually count as a multitude of other races is changeling, with the Racial Emulation feat.