I have a few questions/requests though. I'm not clear on somethings.
First: I'm using Vow of Poverty (Book of Exalted Deeds) for the INSANE bonus to an unarmed character. However, I wanted to couple that with Tattooed Monk (Complete Warrior). Do the magic-like tattoos interfere with Vow of Poverty?
Second: If the Xill build is possible, how do the four arms affect my Flurry of Blows? Or visa-versa, you know what I'm saying.
Third: I was going to use a Xill as my race for the extra arms hoping it would impact my Flurry of Blows. However, I was told that Flurry of Blows assumes the creature is using every conceivable part of his/her/it's body to attack the opponent. So, needless to say, the +4 LA isn't worth it for those crummy stat boosts. Any idea on another neat race? I checked into Githzerai, but they don't really WOW me all that much, at least not for a +2 LA. Maybe I'm just being dumb or greedy...
Lastly: After these two questions have been answered...is there anything I'm missing to make this Monk REDONKULOUS!?!? (Translation-Insanely, Rediculously, Completely Over-powered)
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Are there any materials out of which to make weapons that won't violate my Vow of Poverty?
Any feats (any type) that could noticeably boost my character?
If my DM doesn't allow Vow of Poverty, what should my equipment be? (Will hopefully be posted around 7:00 P.M. EST - 3/3/09 with answer and allowed wealth)
Are there any overlaps that I might be able to dump for something else? - *Some Tattoos I know DO overlap with some abilities granted (at some point) by Vow of Poverty or the Monk class features.
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I'm going to post a Character Development section here as well so I don't have to try to keep up with all kinds of threads now that 4e has taken over everything... Feel free to comment if you have any neat ideas.
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Seeing as how I need to be Lawful to be a Monk, and I need to be good to get my exalted feat; I don't really have much room for options with this character. However, I want to try to have a dark past that comes back to torment me. Cheesy, I know, but that's where you guys come in. I want my character to have something that drives him (what's the word...) schizophrenic. I want him to know his old ways and be reminded why he reformed and chose a life of Lawfully Good servitude.
What I'm asking from you guys is a few incidents where my character went off the deep end if you will and really committed some heinous crime(s). Murder, ****, Arson, Theft, Larceny...all the good ones...;). After that if you could throw me a few of his steps towards redemption as well as some ideas for the intense Monk training, that'd really help me to brain storm and fully flesh out this character. Thanks for the help. Much appreciated!
This is usually accomplished by increasing your effective monk level for unarmed damage, increasing the effective size of your natural weapons, and increasing your size. While there are feats (Improved Natural Attack, and the ToB feat that grants +4 effective monk levels on an unarmed strike) that accomplish this, only Expansion or Enlarge Person (or polymorph, etc) will work to get you bigger.
Vow of Poverty is a good feat, but you should keep in mind that several of the most efficient ways of increasing your damage (Enlarge Self potions and a Monk's Belt) are not going to be available to you.
Keep your damage in mind as you peruse the Monk Guides and create prospective builds. You'll likely wind up with some builds with great defenses but few options against things you can't stun, trip, or grapple; in other words very low damage. These are the duds that you probably won't want to bring to the table.
While there are many avenues to approach with a monk character, in that creating an effective one is a very difficult thing to do, the central issue that you must not lose sight of is this: you need to deal a lot of damage.
This is usually accomplished by increasing your effective monk level for unarmed damage, increasing the effective size of your natural weapons, and increasing your size. While there are feats (Improved Natural Attack, and the ToB feat that grants +4 effective monk levels on an unarmed strike) that accomplish this, only Expansion or Enlarge Person (or polymorph, etc) will work to get you bigger.
Vow of Poverty is a good feat, but you should keep in mind that several of the most efficient ways of increasing your damage (Enlarge Self potions and a Monk's Belt) are not going to be available to you.
Keep your damage in mind as you peruse the Monk Guides and create prospective builds. You'll likely wind up with some builds with great defenses but few options against things you can't stun, trip, or grapple; in other words very low damage. These are the duds that you probably won't want to bring to the table.
Well yes, that's what I would want - max damage. After all (with the exception of healers) isn't that what Character Optimization is about? That being said, would you recommend not taking Vow of Poverty and instead going with a surplus of potions and crazy weapon crafts?
I guess I'm not sure what it is that you're trying to say... Not to criticize or anything. Just responding.
You said to make myself big. Any races that may help out that don't have too big of an LA?
Old school, but definitely of seminal importance is this thread.
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48573
This one is newer and has valuable ToB stuff in it
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=978174
If I were you I would go with the Monk 2/Swordsage 3/ Shadow Sun Ninja 10/Master of Nine 5 Build. It's great because it has good flavor and it's technically impressive.
At ECL 8 you'd get to start far enough into the build that you would avoid a lot of the weaknesses.
If I were you I would start off with the LA buyoff for goliath making you level 6 almost 7.
Otherwise, I understand that Psi-monks kick a lot of ass, because of expansion and talashtora
Or just go completely insane and play a Feral Mineral Warrior Goliath Monk
+3 LA but those are all good enough to actually make it worthwhile.
Feral would give you claws adding 1d8 to your Unarmed Strike.
Extensive stat modifiers.
Large size (unarmed damage, trip, grapple)
Advancement by HD for very nice abilities
+10 land
1/2 landspeed burrow
Earth strike attack
Darkvision
Fast Healing
Rend (amazing for a monk)
Other stuff.
+10str -4dex +10con -6 int -2 cha
Might be fun to play a dumb monk
Finally a custom Anthropomorphic animal might make you large for +2ECL, but I think they don't make +1ECL large races.
As far as VoP goes, take it at your own risk. For instance, what will happen vs. numerous flying opponents? Other problems may arise too.
As far as gear, never forget the monk's belt! Also there are some really neat bracers for monks in the MIC. Counterstrike Bracers, Rapidstrike Bracers, and Ki Straps come to mind...
Be a Half Ogre Goliath. LA+2
Powerful build repeatedly makes reference to "treated as if one size larger" so you get to BE large (via half ogre from savage species) AND treated as if huge
6d8 unarmed damage at 20.
Add in enlarged person and it's 8d8 without even trying very hard.
Sure you can find one more size increase somehow to get the optimum 12d8 for being colossal.
So, have fun writing the prequel to your characters life in which a Goliath and an ogre get it on.
EDIT: crap, half-ogre is a race not a template. Well I'm done working on it. Good luck!
OK got it,
Be a Half Ogre Goliath. LA+2
Powerful build repeatedly makes reference to "treated as if one size larger" so you get to BE large (via half ogre from savage species) AND treated as if huge
6d8 unarmed damage at 20.
Add in enlarged person and it's 8d8 without even trying very hard.
Sure you can find one more size increase somehow to get the optimum 12d8 for being colossal.
So, have fun writing the prequel to your characters life in which a Goliath and an ogre get it on.
EDIT: crap, half-ogre is a race not a template. Well I'm done working on it. Good luck!
yes... because the only function of a monk is punching things really hard.
The trick is to do it efficiently. Unless the spell Greater Mighty Wallop is allowed (and it shouldn't be because it's absurd), you'll need to actually think about it for 5 seconds.
Race (among others): Half-Ogre.
Feats: Improved Natural Attack, Superior Unarmed Strike.
Items: Monk's Belt, Potion of Enlarge.
You could get into Expansion, but it takes a pretty large investment in various psionic classes to get it to be better than Enlarge Person, which is cheap and available.
You're starting at 8th level? With the feats that brings your unarmed damage to 2d8. Since you're a Half-Ogre, and Large, that's 3d8. Improved Natural Attack pumps it to 6d6 (check the table), then 9d6 after you quaff your potion.
Keep in mind, though, that you'll get the same damage with 1 less monk level... and with only 3 monk levels (along with those feats/equipment), your post-Enlarge Self potion unarmed strikes will deal 6d6 damage.
Now if those 4 extra levels (I'm counting the +1LA for Half-Ogre) were in Wizard or Sorcerer, for example, you could pick up Alter Self... and since you've got Giant Blood and Huge is within 1 size category, I think the Storm Giant is available from Alter Self. That would put your post-Enlarge Self potion fist at the same 9d6, but now you have +12 natural armor, Polymorph is just around the corner, and you have a ton of nasty tricks to pull with magic.
I'm no expert on Alter Self or Polymorph errata, though- you'll have to check that yourself if you want to do this.
Well let me rephrase that,
I don't see why you would come to the CharOP board and make glib remarks that are clearly glib from a perspective alien to the goals of this thread.
Edit:
Vow of Poverty is really not worth it for a monk, unless you know that you won't have access to purchasable magic items. For a druid, it is possibly worth it.
Vow of Poverty is really not worth it for a monk, unless you know that you won't have access to purchasable magic items. For a druid, it is possibly worth it.
That about sums it up... If you still want an Exalted flavored monk, you might like my Thumper of Evil. :D
Well yes, that's what I would want - max damage. After all (with the exception of healers) isn't that what Character Optimization is about?
No, actually. Damage is rather secondary. It is very easy to do a lot of damage. It isn't easy to do a lot of what else goes on here. The most important commodity in D&D is actions. Giving your allies more actions or denying the enemy theirs is a lot more effective than just being able to punch stuff really hard. That's why "lockdown" builds are seen to be the most optimized melee builds, and "God wizards" the most optimized arcane casters.
That being said, would you recommend not taking Vow of Poverty and instead going with a surplus of potions and crazy weapon crafts?
VoP is inferior to actually having magic items in almost all cases. The exceptions are campaigns that make it very difficult to get the magic items that you want.
Monks have many functions, but the most basic of those functions is indeed to hit things hard. If a monk can't hit things hard, I wouldn't want to play him/her.
The trick is to do it efficiently. Unless the spell Greater Mighty Wallop is allowed (and it shouldn't be because it's absurd), you'll need to actually think about it for 5 seconds.
Race (among others): Half-Ogre.
Feats: Improved Natural Attack, Superior Unarmed Strike.
Items: Monk's Belt, Potion of Enlarge.
You could get into Expansion, but it takes a pretty large investment in various psionic classes to get it to be better than Enlarge Person, which is cheap and available.
You're starting at 8th level? With the feats that brings your unarmed damage to 2d8. Since you're a Half-Ogre, and Large, that's 3d8. Improved Natural Attack pumps it to 6d6 (check the table), then 9d6 after you quaff your potion.
Keep in mind, though, that you'll get the same damage with 1 less monk level... and with only 3 monk levels (along with those feats/equipment), your post-Enlarge Self potion unarmed strikes will deal 6d6 damage.
Now if those 4 extra levels (I'm counting the +1LA for Half-Ogre) were in Wizard or Sorcerer, for example, you could pick up Alter Self... and since you've got Giant Blood and Huge is within 1 size category, I think the Storm Giant is available from Alter Self. That would put your post-Enlarge Self potion fist at the same 9d6, but now you have +12 natural armor, Polymorph is just around the corner, and you have a ton of nasty tricks to pull with magic.
I'm no expert on Alter Self or Polymorph errata, though- you'll have to check that yourself if you want to do this.
I like what you've done here! :D
EDIT: There's a few errors here and there but the design is pretty cool. For instance: Half-Ogre seems to be a +2LA and the 2d6 gets pumped up to 3d6 by Improved Nat. Attack, not d8's or whatever...
No, actually. Damage is rather secondary. It is very easy to do a lot of damage. It isn't easy to do a lot of what else goes on here. The most important commodity in D&D is actions. Giving your allies more actions or denying the enemy theirs is a lot more effective than just being able to punch stuff really hard. That's why "lockdown" builds are seen to be the most optimized melee builds, and "God wizards" the most optimized arcane casters.
You've made a great point. :D Do you have any good tips for a "Lockdown" build?
Feat RogueUA 1/ Monk 2/ Fighter 1/ CrusaderToB 1/ WarbladeToB 1/ Fighter +1/ Crusader +1/ Warblade +3/ Feat Rogue +1/ Warblade +1/ Witch SlayerToM 2/ Warblade + 5
Level Feats:
1) Standstill
3) Deft Opportunist
6) Serpent Strike
9) Adaptive Style
12) Stormguard Warrior
15) Robilar's Gambit
18) Defensive Sweep
Bonus feats:
1) Feat Rogue 1) Power Attack
2) Monk 1) Improved Grapple, IUS
3) Monk 2) Combat Reflexes
4) Fighter 1) Wpn Focus(longspear)
7) Fighter 2) Mage Slayer
12) Warblade 5) Ironheart
15) Feat Rogue 2) PMP
19) Warblade 9) Improved Initiative
Alternative class features: decisive strike (PH2), Spell Reflection (CM)
Even just having reach (from being big, or wielding a reach weapon, or both), Combat Reflexes, and the Stand Still feat can do decently well, though. Thicket of Blades from the Tome of Battle adds hugely to this.
Phaedrus has the right idea here tho. Extra actions / less actions for opponents can be critical. Quite a few of these capabilities are granted to monks for free.
Githzerai} +6 Dex, +2 Wisdom, -2 Int : +2LA
Basically: Not a lot! Please Advise!!
I know people were talking about Half-Ogre Goliath and what not, but I can't seem to find that anywhere. Can you help me out with this? I wanna get something fun and worthwhile. I have 8 levels to play around with and I'd like to make my race something more than just a default dump class. Gimme something fun and O.P.
I'd like it to be large if possible.
I like what you've done here! :D
EDIT: There's a few errors here and there but the design is pretty cool. For instance: Half-Ogre seems to be a +2LA and the 2d6 gets pumped up to 3d6 by Improved Nat. Attack, not d8's or whatever...
Large Monk 10: 2d8
INA: 3d8
+size: 4d8
Githzerai (Swordsage?)
Str: 17
Dex: 20 = 14+6
Con: 18 = 17+1
Int: 14 = 16-2
Wis: 20 = 17+2+1
Cha: 10
I looked at the Shadow Sun Ninja and didn't really like it. It's a neat idea, but it's too much back and forth for me. What I'm thinking is: Monk1 for the AC Bonus; however, with the 2nd Level of Warblade I get that back AND I can wear light armor.
If I keep going Swordsage I do get some pretty neat things, like Insightful Strike - Add Wisdom to Damage - and some other neat-o stuff. Although, it'd be simple to just go ahead and stick with this class, I'm not a big fan of this 3/4 BAB. Would there be any way to throw in a couple of good old Fighter Levels (or other full BAB classes) in order to pump up this little Githzerai Swordsage?Should I change my race?
Unfortunately, monks end up using a lot of magic items, actually.
Pumping Stunning Fist can also be very useful in a monk/unarmed swordsage build. There are items in the MIC and feats in various places that turn Stunning Fist into all sorts of unusual things. I'm told Freezing the Lifeblood and Pharaoh's Fist feats make a pretty vicious combination.
Greater Mighty Whallop would be your endgame buff, taking your damage to a maximum size of colossal, which you'll get at medium size, meaning all the damage benefits, none of the penalties. You really want to have to tote around Reduce Person just to walk into most buildings/hallways?
Been working on this all day off and on. Here's my status:
Githzerai (Swordsage?)
Str: 17
Dex: 20 = 14+6
Con: 18 = 17+1
Int: 14 = 16-2
Wis: 20 = 17+2+1
Cha: 10
I looked at the Shadow Sun Ninja and didn't really like it. It's a neat idea, but it's too much back and forth for me. What I'm thinking is: Monk1 for the AC Bonus; however, with the 2nd Level of Warblade I get that back AND I can wear light armor.
Should I change my race?
Hey guys. I know this started off completely different but as this character evolved and developed I've noticed that a lot of the stuff from Monk is either duplicated or championed by the Swordsage's abilities and/or Manuevers, Stances, etc.
So I guess what I'm saying is that I've moved this from Monk, to Swordsage.
The notion that you're taking an entire feat slot up to limit your self seems very redundent to the idea of optimzation- but that's not to say VoP doesn't have it's uses. It's just to say make sure you know 'when' to use it.