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Crazy Spontaneous Casting

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
jaronk
Jul 08, 2008 19:26:36 So, on a whim, I tried to come up with a spontaneous caster that can cast as many spells as possible... the idea is to have a stupidly large number of spells known.

So how about this?

Gnome Beguiler 4/Rainbow Servant 10/Sand Shaper 1/Shadowcraft Mage 5, two flaws
1: Earth Sense, Earth Spell, Heighten Spell
3: Spell Focus Illusion
6: Touchstone (City of the Dead)
9: Residual Metamagic
12: Easy Metamagic (Heighten Spell)
15: Arcane Thesis (Silent Image)
18: Extend Spell

Result? Well, obviously he's got the whole Beguiler list. He's also got the whole Cleric list. And he gets all those extra spells from Sand Shaper (many of which are at much lower levels than normal). Plus, due to Shadowcraft Mage, he's quite good with all Wizard/Sorcerer Evocations and most of the Conjurations. Whee!

Of course, I could eek out a few more using Arcane Disciple, but that's only once per day and the point of this is to just always have whatever spell you want ready to go. Also, fitting in a level of PrC Bard would give me a bunch more spells, but I can't really see how to do it.

JaronK
#2
tshern
Jul 09, 2008 7:46:12 Couldn't you, in theory, score more with Sorcerer? With Arcane disciple (Luck) you get all the Shadow Miracle shenanigans.

Apart from that suggestion that you're probably capable of punking, that's some nice work right there.
#3
sinfire_titan
Jul 09, 2008 12:50:54 The problem with Sorcerer is that you have a limited number of spells known, while the Beguiler can cast any spell on his spell list. Rainbow Servant and Sand Shaper add directly to your spell list, not spells known. Thus Beguiler works somewhat better.

Although the loss of so many CLs is very bad (unless your DM rules with the text of Rainbow Servant over the table).
#4
jaronk
Jul 09, 2008 13:33:34 Yeah, but the purpose was more spells, and while the lost of 2 whole levels of casting stinks, gaining the entire Cleric list is worth it for the concept. Obviously, if the DM goes with the Rainbow Servant loses no levels idea then it's downright awesome.

JaronK
#5
sinfire_titan
Jul 09, 2008 13:41:42
Yeah, but the purpose was more spells, and while the lost of 2 whole levels of casting stinks, gaining the entire Cleric list is worth it for the concept. Obviously, if the DM goes with the Rainbow Servant loses no levels idea then it's downright awesome.

JaronK

IIRC, Rainbow Servant loses 4 by its own chart, Shand Shaper loses one, so that should be five, not two.
#6
jaronk
Jul 09, 2008 13:43:39 I meant two as in "two spell levels." You lose 8th and 9th level spells. And I was talking specifically about the Rainbow Servant at that point.

The other option is to ditch Rainbow Servant for PrC Bard and something else, but again you lose levels and the Cleric list is REALLY big.

JaronK
#7
tshern
Jul 09, 2008 13:44:51 I didn't have Rainbow Servant at hand, I thought it gave you the ability to cast them (perhaps with Arcane preparation in this case), but if it is as you said, I agree JaronK's build is superior.

And indeed by its own chart RS loses 4 caster level, even though the text says otherwise...
#8
sinfire_titan
Jul 09, 2008 13:49:56
I meant two as in "two spell levels." You lose 8th and 9th level spells. And I was talking specifically about the Rainbow Servant at that point.

The other option is to ditch Rainbow Servant for PrC Bard and something else, but again you lose levels and the Cleric list is REALLY big.

JaronK

Ah, now I understand. Still, 8th and 9th level spells are pretty damn nice, losing them does leave a big mark.
#9
jaronk
Jul 09, 2008 14:32:40 Indeed. But again, the goal was to be able to cast as much as possible. Now, losing 8th+ level spells really hurts, and technically you could just get 9th level spells and then Shapechange into a Black Ethergaunt or Solar for more casting... but that's just not the same!

JaronK
#10
widow
Jul 12, 2008 9:12:54 A couple more ideas. Using the same trick as the rainbow sevant is the dragon magazine class Eldrich Master (dragon 280). The class gives you another spell list of your choice at levels 4 and 8, but gives you no casting progression. Also at level 3, 6, and 9 you get a bonus metamagic feat and the ability to cast one spell one level higher than he currently can. So lets go with 4 levels and a simplified build:

Beguiler11/Shadowcraft mage 5/Eldrich Master 4

Okay, your beguiler will get you 8 level spells. At level 19, the eldrich master will let you get one 9th level spell per day (and it is one specific spell). One is better than nothing. Then at level 20 you get to add a second spell list of your choice. Cleric most likely, but you could try and convince your DM that the archivist has the spell list of all divine casters and select that (or sublime chord for sorc plus bard, generic classes for cleric/druid/sorc spells, or chameleon for all arcane and divine). On the plus side, you get a 9th level spell, more prestige class options, and do not have to have a alignment requirement. The bad is to get the 9th level spell, you have to take eldrich master at the end of the progression and it is a dragon mag class. I like this build a little better if you can work the feats.

Bequiler 5/ Mindbender 1/Shadow Mage 2/Shadowcraft mage 5/ Shadow Mage 3/ Eldrich Master 4

Note Eldrich master is pretty scary in gestalt. It adds to the level of effect for your spells, but not actually caster level. So gestalt you can have a caster level of 20 and effect level of 30, not to mention 2 extra spell lists all cast spontaneously off of Int.

Second option which is not quite as slick, but gives you a wider range. Go with wizard spell casting and move into the dwenoomer keeper from the complete divine web enhancement. If you max out all 10 levels of that class, you will get 4 spells a day without components. Take the spell Alamater's return from magic of fauren as a level 9 spell. It costs 1,000xp without using keeper powers, but copies any 8th level spell or lower ever seen.

Race Illumian (Turning sigal for peristant metamagic)
Wizard 4/ Clostered Cleric 1 (magic domain and turning)/DK 10/

Follow with a class of choice for more arcane spell advancement or uncanny trickster to advance DK by 2 if allowed. Still gets 9th level spells and has a caster level of 20 either way.

Now take arcane thesis for alamanter's return and use your turning attempts to apply persistent spell 2 to 3 times a day (improved sigal gives +1). Don't forget to apply extend spell for free with arcane thesis giving you 48 hour spells. You should be able to cast any 8th level spell 4 to 5 times a day, excellent buff build. If going epic, take the feat that makes a specific spell only drop for 1d4 rounds if dispelled. Works great if you select alamanther's return, especially with continued epic progression of DK.

And if you dont mind psionics, the etrudent works quite well and can gain access to all 8th level and below arcane, divine, and psionic powers if you dont mind only casting up to 11 different ones a day. Remeber the Altered spell source feat to make those divine spells arcane.

Also there is an expensive helmet in one of the eberron books. It lets you add up to 4 arcane spells from any class to your list. Very expensive for high level spells, I will have to find which book it is in again. I think it is in with all the giant relics.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 jaronk Jul 08, 2008 19:26:36	So, on a whim, I tried to come up with a spontaneous caster that can cast as many spells as possible... the idea is to have a stupidly large number of spells known. So how about this? Gnome Beguiler 4/Rainbow Servant 10/Sand Shaper 1/Shadowcraft Mage 5, two flaws 1: Earth Sense, Earth Spell, Heighten Spell 3: Spell Focus Illusion 6: Touchstone (City of the Dead) 9: Residual Metamagic 12: Easy Metamagic (Heighten Spell) 15: Arcane Thesis (Silent Image) 18: Extend Spell Result? Well, obviously he's got the whole Beguiler list. He's also got the whole Cleric list. And he gets all those extra spells from Sand Shaper (many of which are at much lower levels than normal). Plus, due to Shadowcraft Mage, he's quite good with all Wizard/Sorcerer Evocations and most of the Conjurations. Whee! Of course, I could eek out a few more using Arcane Disciple, but that's only once per day and the point of this is to just always have whatever spell you want ready to go. Also, fitting in a level of PrC Bard would give me a bunch more spells, but I can't really see how to do it. JaronK
#2 tshern Jul 09, 2008 7:46:12	Couldn't you, in theory, score more with Sorcerer? With Arcane disciple (Luck) you get all the Shadow Miracle shenanigans. Apart from that suggestion that you're probably capable of punking, that's some nice work right there.
#3 sinfire_titan Jul 09, 2008 12:50:54	The problem with Sorcerer is that you have a limited number of spells known, while the Beguiler can cast any spell on his spell list. Rainbow Servant and Sand Shaper add directly to your spell list, not spells known. Thus Beguiler works somewhat better. Although the loss of so many CLs is very bad (unless your DM rules with the text of Rainbow Servant over the table).
#4 jaronk Jul 09, 2008 13:33:34	Yeah, but the purpose was more spells, and while the lost of 2 whole levels of casting stinks, gaining the entire Cleric list is worth it for the concept. Obviously, if the DM goes with the Rainbow Servant loses no levels idea then it's downright awesome. JaronK
#5 sinfire_titan Jul 09, 2008 13:41:42	Yeah, but the purpose was more spells, and while the lost of 2 whole levels of casting stinks, gaining the entire Cleric list is worth it for the concept. Obviously, if the DM goes with the Rainbow Servant loses no levels idea then it's downright awesome. JaronK IIRC, Rainbow Servant loses 4 by its own chart, Shand Shaper loses one, so that should be five, not two.
#6 jaronk Jul 09, 2008 13:43:39	I meant two as in "two spell levels." You lose 8th and 9th level spells. And I was talking specifically about the Rainbow Servant at that point. The other option is to ditch Rainbow Servant for PrC Bard and something else, but again you lose levels and the Cleric list is REALLY big. JaronK
#7 tshern Jul 09, 2008 13:44:51	I didn't have Rainbow Servant at hand, I thought it gave you the ability to cast them (perhaps with Arcane preparation in this case), but if it is as you said, I agree JaronK's build is superior. And indeed by its own chart RS loses 4 caster level, even though the text says otherwise...
#8 sinfire_titan Jul 09, 2008 13:49:56	I meant two as in "two spell levels." You lose 8th and 9th level spells. And I was talking specifically about the Rainbow Servant at that point. The other option is to ditch Rainbow Servant for PrC Bard and something else, but again you lose levels and the Cleric list is REALLY big. JaronK Ah, now I understand. Still, 8th and 9th level spells are pretty damn nice, losing them does leave a big mark.
#9 jaronk Jul 09, 2008 14:32:40	Indeed. But again, the goal was to be able to cast as much as possible. Now, losing 8th+ level spells really hurts, and technically you could just get 9th level spells and then Shapechange into a Black Ethergaunt or Solar for more casting... but that's just not the same! JaronK
#10 widow Jul 12, 2008 9:12:54	A couple more ideas. Using the same trick as the rainbow sevant is the dragon magazine class Eldrich Master (dragon 280). The class gives you another spell list of your choice at levels 4 and 8, but gives you no casting progression. Also at level 3, 6, and 9 you get a bonus metamagic feat and the ability to cast one spell one level higher than he currently can. So lets go with 4 levels and a simplified build: Beguiler11/Shadowcraft mage 5/Eldrich Master 4 Okay, your beguiler will get you 8 level spells. At level 19, the eldrich master will let you get one 9th level spell per day (and it is one specific spell). One is better than nothing. Then at level 20 you get to add a second spell list of your choice. Cleric most likely, but you could try and convince your DM that the archivist has the spell list of all divine casters and select that (or sublime chord for sorc plus bard, generic classes for cleric/druid/sorc spells, or chameleon for all arcane and divine). On the plus side, you get a 9th level spell, more prestige class options, and do not have to have a alignment requirement. The bad is to get the 9th level spell, you have to take eldrich master at the end of the progression and it is a dragon mag class. I like this build a little better if you can work the feats. Bequiler 5/ Mindbender 1/Shadow Mage 2/Shadowcraft mage 5/ Shadow Mage 3/ Eldrich Master 4 Note Eldrich master is pretty scary in gestalt. It adds to the level of effect for your spells, but not actually caster level. So gestalt you can have a caster level of 20 and effect level of 30, not to mention 2 extra spell lists all cast spontaneously off of Int. Second option which is not quite as slick, but gives you a wider range. Go with wizard spell casting and move into the dwenoomer keeper from the complete divine web enhancement. If you max out all 10 levels of that class, you will get 4 spells a day without components. Take the spell Alamater's return from magic of fauren as a level 9 spell. It costs 1,000xp without using keeper powers, but copies any 8th level spell or lower ever seen. Race Illumian (Turning sigal for peristant metamagic) Wizard 4/ Clostered Cleric 1 (magic domain and turning)/DK 10/ Follow with a class of choice for more arcane spell advancement or uncanny trickster to advance DK by 2 if allowed. Still gets 9th level spells and has a caster level of 20 either way. Now take arcane thesis for alamanter's return and use your turning attempts to apply persistent spell 2 to 3 times a day (improved sigal gives +1). Don't forget to apply extend spell for free with arcane thesis giving you 48 hour spells. You should be able to cast any 8th level spell 4 to 5 times a day, excellent buff build. If going epic, take the feat that makes a specific spell only drop for 1d4 rounds if dispelled. Works great if you select alamanther's return, especially with continued epic progression of DK. And if you dont mind psionics, the etrudent works quite well and can gain access to all 8th level and below arcane, divine, and psionic powers if you dont mind only casting up to 11 different ones a day. Remeber the Altered spell source feat to make those divine spells arcane. Also there is an expensive helmet in one of the eberron books. It lets you add up to 4 arcane spells from any class to your list. Very expensive for high level spells, I will have to find which book it is in again. I think it is in with all the giant relics.