Hi Guys, intending to make an Exocist based character, pretty well all books are available with Dm confirmation. It appears to be more 'Devil' based, Just hoping for some optimized suggestions.
Devil Based?
If you mean that it will be based on rebuking devils, like a "the exorsist" or even better, "Ao no exorsist" Style, I would go....
Archivist 6/Ur priest 4/Church inquisitor5/Sacred exorsist 5.
Makes for a "faithless, doubtful exorsist" kind of feel. Someone who uses the power of the bible (which you will be casting from), rather than believing in it.
Ur priest gets .5 levels for every level that isn't ur priest, so by level 20, you have level nine ur-priest levels, level seven archivist levels, and a bunch of exorsism based powers.
Costs a lot of feats, but should be possible.
Also, take able learner early.
If you mean you want to be a tainted exorsist, who through playing with devilish powers uses them to combat evil, I would choose
warlock 6/Ur priest 4/Eldrich disciple 5/Hierophant 5
Gets you eldritch blasting, Level 9 cleric spells, and hierophant is FINALLY A GOOD IDEA. can get you 5 extra bonus metamagic feats, or a bunch of divinely inspired class abilities that give you really good effects
divine reach + 4 metamagic feats = badassery. Far reaching inflict spells
If you want to go full demonist, faustian devil summoner.
Binder 6/Ur priest 2/Anima mage 8(divine)/tenebrous apostate 4
You are going to be playing with some DARK forces.
Trade up tenebrous apostate, if you want a class from Book of evil darkness, some warlock levels, or somethin.
You will have some potently evil skills going on.
.Still open to suggestions, I will post my idea later tonight.
Thanks DMV, sorry for unclear post, it meant the campaign appears to be dealing alot with devils. I'm about to look over your suggestion, 'ur-priest' etc etc I like your suggestion towards theme, as I am moreso interested in roleplaying, but if I can be prepared beforehand heading toward a strong character that feels good too
Still open to suggestions, I will post my idea later tonight.
No problem.
Just remember, Optimization does not get in the way of role-playing, but makes it better. Especially class optimization. It simply comes up with a legitimate set of skills, which your character can use without fudging anything.
You could use the build, and theoretically never get in a fight, if your game works on a set amount of experience awards after a session.
The build just means you won't get roasted in a fight, since you make the choices needed to make the character thematically capable.
How you play it depends on you. You could never mention class once, and play the character based on who you want to be.
Just better to kick butt as well.
You'll have to take Penetrating Spell at some point, but otherwise the only real requirement is that you be a Good Guy(tm). You end up with level 12 Cleric casting, level 4 turning, a +7 BaB, Fort +5, Ref +3, Will +12. You get the Exorcism ability, Detect Evil at will, Inquisition bonus domain (+4 to dispel checks), Immunity to all Enchantment (Charm) effects and automatic save against illusions and disguises, a 30' aura where attacks count as silver and [good], and the ability to automatically overcome the SR of Lawful Evil outsiders.
*Expedition to the Demonweb pits p. 168+171.
The demonbreaker suggestion is interesting, DM has said it will be around devils moreso then demons, but there is an adaption so that should be fine DM is quite flexible. It might be a bit cheeky but im considering asking if we can add more prerequisits like maybe even a feat to make it a 'fiendbreaker' covering both.
The requirements for Church Inquisitor are so low, that you can actually take it at Archivist 3, and it requires no feats, so we have 3 feats to play with.
Sacred exorsist takes no feats to enter as well, and is able to meet the skill requirements by level 7.
As you already know, you have to be apart of a church, and an internal affairs agent. Good to get you some decent sessions.
because of that you could go Archivist 3/church inquisitor 3/sacred exorcist4/paragnostic apostle5
The first two aren't extremely important to get lots of levels in, and paragnostic apostle gives you some really cool inteligence themed abilities.
Anyway... filling out the character.
We need to get you some good feats.
1. Academic priest + (one is from dragon and the other from dragonlance. Academic priest lets your bonus spells come from inteligence. This means you can completely drop wisdom. )
3. Persistent spell
6. Leadership ( allows you to be apart of a parish, If the theme is catholic, you could say you moved from a deacon to a bishop)
9. Divine metamagic:Persistent spell
12.
15.*free*
18.*free*
For a weapon, Something cool could be a sacred shotgun.
The dungeon master's guide has one, and It could be something like a
+1 blessed,holy,heavenly burst, holy surge,morphing, bane(outsider),sure striking,teleporting shotgun.
It could also turn into a rifle, or into a two handed melee weapon. Spear for "lance of longinus"
Making a custom item.
Scholar's Touch
read magic
Identify
Secret page
Rary's mnemonic enhancer
anyspell
Permanency.
Use these to create a wonderous item, (you must prepare them while crafting.) which lets you, instantly remember any information you read into your mind, and being able to absorb the information of any written material by touch. If you are a spellcaster who can add spells to a book, You can use this to copy any spell on a scroll or a magic item into your spells known. Thematically I would say that It was an inchanted elixer of ink that turns words into nourishment for you. Call it scriptural sacrement: word made flesh.
Even better if you are making this... christian themed, you could say through blessing the ink, it brings you closer to "the logos" (the word/reason. A word incarnate. Jesus)
From there, It could turn you into an illumian, and I would say give you free illumian bonus feats.
(I think that would be SICK)
To craft it and your magic items, I would suggest making an artificer as your cohort, having him create items for you.
This could be your theurgic tinkering sidekick, an inventor of the church tasked with helping you lead your parish, and create items for your clergy. I would have followers be clerics, paladins, and more archivists. Possibly some more artificers to help your cohort.
As I have mentioned earlier, DM has suggested alot to do with devils, even slipped possible 'possession' which is what prompted me going into this build (as well as no one in group wants to play a healer, so far I know of a spellthief, i 'think' rogue possibly multiclassing some sort of arcane, a wiz leaning toward ult magus(which was to be my build, unfortunately im too nice and am willing to fill any roll to try and make a campaign work, i think this might be why i was told a bit more of plot, hope DM dont hate me for having Sacred Exorcist) there is also a TWF ranger and hopefully a tank. our spellthief is not expected to be relyable for regular sessions..
Anyway, back to this build, after DMV's suggestions, and having watched the film constantine recently, I am feeling how this character may be, (the sacred shotgun im not sold on yet, and still have to convince DM), a splash or so of Nar Demonbinder could be interesting, after a little online research, I think despite 'losing' good alignment I can still use exorcism, (thinking of discussing this whole build plan with DM beforehand anyway, if I push for even being in lawful neutral throughout, possibly with St Cuthbert church blessing and exorcism tutorage(sp?)
* sorry, gotta cut this short, will post my further thoughts either later tonight or tomorrow, thanks for your interest and input
Sucks man... Trading those levels away for a horrible class feature, when you could do FAR better with a thaumaturgist that is reflavored, is a sin. Nar demonbinder does not increase spellcaster level, and that means, you trade at least 2 levels of archivist casting for one of the worst spell lists I have ever seen.
Remember, Archivist gives you all divine spells at your fingertips, without trying hard. Do the right thing, and you can get all arcane spells.
______________________________
Check it. That class, Paragnostic Apostle? It is an Organizational class. That means you have to be apart of an organization to actually enter.
Now, The thing is, it gives you unlimited access to a WHOLE ARCHIVE. That means practically every spell will be written down there. Not a library like we have, but a catagorized information network full of lore. It is like the Vatican's secret archives.
Not only that, but when you quest for them, They give you free magic items.
Because they give you resources for free, I would do this.
1. Get my hands on 3 boccob's blessed books. If you want, you can tell your DM that it will be part of the payment for your first missions, and that the Paragnostic Initiate gives them to members, but only if they add new spells they research to the library.
2.Learn Secret page.
3.Get arcane sight permanently cast on you at one of the Organization houses.
4. Go to the archives, stay for a month. Record every divine spell for free, with each spell taking up 1 page. Then, Use a gather information check, and find a catalog of wizard spells that have been written in divine format (VIA wizards with alternate source spell Metamagic feat + Heighten spell)
5. Go to the armory, and you can get weapons and armor up to 25% of your wealth.
All of that is COMPLETELY legal and within realms of possibility. The Spellbook classes were made for their potential of learning everything.
Look at Elminster, he has all spells by default. They were meant to behave like that. If your DM gives you flak, tell him that you will raise your Tithes to the Paragnostic Apostles by to 12% For exclusive member status, and take the Leadership feat.
___
now that that is out of the way, Lets look at a better build for you.
It seems like you are walking on both fences here, Between having Diabolic powers, and being holy. I think this calls for a new build from the ground up.
Lesser Tiefling ( As Tiefling,except these are plane-touched humans instead of Outsiders. LA+0!!!!!)
Archivist 5/Paragnostic Apostle4/ Sacred Exorcist 1/ Contemplative 10
This build could be AMAZING. It takes 0 feats to enter, Is an archivist, gets Lore, Full spellcasting, Gets Exorcism, And the contemplative class meditates on a philosophic concept until they become outsiders. The Character has to witness an embodiment of an alignment. Devils are the embodiment of lawful evil.
With the character possibly finding more about it's own Diabolic nature, It could struggle with it's satanic impulse until it hits level 10, and understands that Devils are evil by choice. Everyone can say yes or no, and this character says no to being eaten by it's own impulses, rather Consuming the Diabolic blood within, and overcoming it...No, Conquering it.
This character starts out as a good person, with the ability to use good OR evil spells, Who then begins to delve into diabolic lore, posession, and then witnesses either a dream or a real event that brings the person to realize that they are infact diabolically heritaged. Then the levels represent the contemplation on what that truth really means.
Alternatively, If you choose Lesser Aasimar as the race, they become closer to the divine, and contemplate oneness with the realms of gods.
You said you watched constantine?
Have you seen The DaVinci Code/ Angels & Demons? I feel Like that would do this character a far bigger inspirational service.
__________________
Feats.
1. Academic Priest
3.Item Familiar (How about a rosary, or a crusafix?)
6.Leadership
9.Persistant spell
12.Divine Metamagic: Persistant spell
15. Extra Domain
18.*free*
_______________________________
Suggested Domains(pick any 3 domains.)
EXORCISM
Gives you the same exorcism class ability as SE. You may want to drop the class for the domain...
INQUISITION
don't need church inquisitor after all.
DIABOLISM
devil inspired? Check.
Alternative ones are: Celestial ( If you want to go light side. I would Switch race to Lesser Aasimar if so...), Summon,Portal,Pact,Liberation,Purification, Good, Law and Tyrant.
I appreciate your suggestions, explaining my thoughts on demonbinder, I was intrigued by the demon trap and changing the descriptors stuff not a deep look into the spells, after your little nudge, I recognize how poor this class would be for intended job, thank you.
As for the character, Tiefling idea is interesting and could really add alot theme-wise. I've been looking at lawful neutral as the alignment I want to play, which suits a devil heritage that may struggle with good/evil.
Funnily enough, I was looking at complete champion today, and para apostle crossed my mind.
The contemplative is a very good and interesting suggestion. Bonus domains for the archivist
The domain suggestion for exorcism is a good suggestion although an alternative source of turn undead may be required.
Once again, im up way too late. sorry to cut it short without anything really added, i think i might move forward with tiefling idea. So i shall post a further build plan tomorrow.
Man, I wish there was a cleric prestige class...Other than the UR-priest that isn't compatible.
sacred exorsist doesn't... Hurt. Just keeps you as a good guy, rather than being completely free to change alignment.
Can't wait to see what you have cooking.
Build Plan to level 20:
Lesser Tiefling (very minimal signs of fiend blood, possibly cut out some more racial abilities )
Archivist 5, Paragnostic Apostle 2, Divine Oracle 1, *Devil alt*demonwrecker 5, Sacred Exorcist 1, Contemplative 6
Writing a detailed backstory at moment, general gist character has grown up as noble human, an exceptional student whose aptitude caught the eye of Paragnostic Assembly, from his studies at the assembly character emerses himself in divination research, gaining a level in Oracle, this focus gives character foresight of a major attack by an infernal cult on his hometown and family, arrives with a small band to find largescale human sacrifices and is killed by a devil, the band gets assistance from a group of 'hellbreakers' whose cleric amongst resurrects character. This cleric points the character to a mentor to help channel his ability into a weapon against the hordes of hell. This is where the characters *Devil*wrecker levels and campaign will start, this should be leading into knowledge of possession, and the study of it will put character on path to find a church to train him in exorcist rituals, (with DM's assistance in storyline) character will fail in first exorcism, but learn of his heritage, this will put character on the contemplative path.
Anyway, this is my current line of thought, still open for feat suggestions, spell mastery/uncanny forethought seems to be a very handy for archivist. Academic Priest seems to be a must, and item familiar could be interesting. If im pushing toward persistent spell, im gunna need extra turning unless DM lets this get cheesy with nightsticks.
> DMV, where can I find reference to this 'shotgun' which you were implying to make into a sacred shotgun. Im still not sold, but as this is suppose to be a highly intelligent research based character, it could make sense.
Ok so here goes build draft #1, dice will be rolled next week within the group, but we have a generous DM who allows best 3 of 5d6, with 4 total attempts (4 sets of ability rolls to choose from) so I can fairly safely assume im going to have decent ability scores where needed.
Build Plan to level 20:
Lesser Tiefling (very minimal signs of fiend blood, possibly cut out some more racial abilities )
Archivist 5, Paragnostic Apostle 2, Divine Oracle 1, *Devil alt*demonwrecker 5, Sacred Exorcist 1, Contemplative 6
Writing a detailed backstory at moment, general gist character has grown up as noble human, an exceptional student whose aptitude caught the eye of Paragnostic Assembly, from his studies at the assembly character emerses himself in divination research, gaining a level in Oracle, this focus gives character foresight of a major attack by an infernal cult on his hometown and family, arrives with a small band to find largescale human sacrifices and is killed by a devil, the band gets assistance from a group of 'hellbreakers' whose cleric amongst resurrects character. This cleric points the character to a mentor to help channel his ability into a weapon against the hordes of hell. This is where the characters *Devil*wrecker levels and campaign will start, this should be leading into knowledge of possession, and the study of it will put character on path to find a church to train him in exorcist rituals, (with DM's assistance in storyline) character will fail in first exorcism, but learn of his heritage, this will put character on the contemplative path.
Anyway, this is my current line of thought, still open for feat suggestions, spell mastery/uncanny forethought seems to be a very handy for archivist. Academic Priest seems to be a must, and item familiar could be interesting. If im pushing toward persistent spell, im gunna need extra turning unless DM lets this get cheesy with nightsticks.
> DMV, where can I find reference to this 'shotgun' which you were implying to make into a sacred shotgun. Im still not sold, but as this is suppose to be a highly intelligent research based character, it could make sense.
Ah... Devilwrecker was a good idea.
I am really liking your background too. Really makes use of your classes in the story.
As for feats, the list I gave previously is still pretty good. You could also substitute a couple in or out, but for the most part, Its good.
-----------------------------
As for the shotgun, It's in the DMG. Page 145.
The gist of it (I in no way own or profit from this information. It is legally owned by wizards of the coast)
Is:
2d8.
Six shots (with a full-round action to reload).
Range is 40 with P type damage, and 7 pounds of weight.
It is to be treated as all other ranged weapons, and is a variant to the two handed ranged firearm, which is priced at 500 gp.
To be honest though, the Automatic rifle looks a bit better.
2d8 (On full round action, it can shoot in a spread of ten feet
THIRTY shots (with a move action to reload)
Range is 80 with P type damage, and is 8 pounds.
All bullets are 10/3 gp.
So magazines are 9 gp each.
Using the morphing magic attribute on an assault rifle gives it the ability to turn into a hunting rifle, a shotgun, a grenade launcher, or any two handed Melee weapon.
Also, you need an exotic weapon proficiency to use ALL guns, or incur a -4 penalty.
Not bad.
-----------------------------------
Furthermore, with the archivist in the lead, using ranger spells for MUCH better shootan and honestly, devil hunting in general.
Ranger actually gets some sweet spells, ESPECIALLY at an archivists progression rate.
I swear sometimes the archivist is like truly better than a wizard. And with those domain slots from contemplative? ANYSPELL.
Furthermore, your feat list should look more like this.
I forgot that peristant spell required extend spell
1. Academic Priest
3.Item Familiar (How about a rosary, or a crusafix?)
6.Leadership
9.
12.
15. Extra Domain
18.extra turning
To persist more you could switch it up to
1. Academic Priest
3.Extend spell
6.Leadership
9.Persistant spell
12.Divine Metamagic: Persistant spell
15. Extra Domain
18.*free*
And it would be legal.
Or if you want more space, and don't feel like being confined by leadership and item familiar
1. Academic Priest
3.Extend spell
6.Exotic weapon proficiency (firearms)
9.Persistant spell
12.Divine Metamagic: Persistant spell
15. Extra turning
18.Extra domain
Either way, I like the direction you took the class.
Don't forget to get detect magic and arcane sight permanent, Pick up secret page and a boccob book, and finally to use scholars touch.
In conjunction, it lets you touch spellbooks and copy the spells off into your prayerbook.
Look for every class you can that has divine magic, and load up.
If you really want to as well, simply ask if eidetic spellcaster can be used on an archivist with your DM, trading up dark knowledge and scribe scroll for it, and have the paragnostic assembly give out free incense, or better yet, constantly burn it in the archives so that you can simply learn the spells for free.
Eidetic spellcasting+ scholars touch + archives = The initiates being able to basically eat the books by touch, gobling up the spells for free.
To progress fairly, I would simply learn all the spells of the levels I can cast at one time.
For extra fun, talk with your DM, and try to make that the standard progression of a paragnostic member, and have some adepts as enemies later.
For paragnostic enemies, Eidetic archivist 3/Wizard1/mystic theurge10/Dweomerkeeper4/ paragnostic adept 2
Absolutely beastly.
Of course, it seems like extreme powergaming, but that only applies as far as you take it. Using and abusing power are two different things.
Even if you have ALL divine spells memorized, you still have to prepare them in slots. It only gives you great options, and archivists already had those.
And the guns? Not even that powerful compared to an average spell, or average weapon. Deals less than a monk's punch.
Depending on what level you start on (If level 3... awesome)
You could very well have previously memorized all generic divine spells during the first level of your training with the assembly if you join at level 1 (easy).
Simply pick and choose what you want based on how you feel, or how the divination spells tell you.
If anyone accuses you of stealing shine, tell them that you are playing a savant character, and sometimes they get a little... awesome.
Don't intentionally step on toes though. Be nice. Moreso, play one role at a time.
Playing all of them is fine, playing all at once is kinda stingy.
One day buff, next heal, next inflict, next blast, ect.
All at once is kind of mean. But since this is a Diabolically themed character, the best spells to have are banisment spells, buffs and sanctified spells.
Divination rocks too.