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Crit Benefit

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
dudinator321
Sep 23, 2008 19:27:08 My friend is thinking about making a quadruple scimitar wielding thri-kreen. He's going to get 8 levels of Desciple of Dispater, and improved critical feat. This will bring his crit range to 9-20 X2.

I've been looking everywhere and I'm wondering if there's anything that gives you additional effects if you crit. Is there anything like, "enemies hit on crit must make xxx save or become stunned"?
#2
jaronk
Sep 23, 2008 20:12:45 The Enfeebling enchantment from BoED makes enemies take 2+d6 Str damage on a critical hit, so that's handy.

JaronK
#3
altpersona
Sep 23, 2008 20:13:12 yes. im 90% sure there are.

check the index pdfs.
#4
totenkinder
Sep 23, 2008 21:47:08 You can't go wrong with one of the burst enchantments mind you.
#5
tytalus
Sep 23, 2008 23:59:00 Prismatic Burst [MIC] is fantastic, but expensive.

You can't go wrong with one of the burst enchantments mind you.

Actually, you can. Even with a good crit range, elemental burst enchantments are almost always worse than two regular elemental enchantments.
#6
Senevri
Sep 24, 2008 3:59:57 Telling Blow nets SA dice on crit.
Complete Scoundrel has tons of feats trading SA dice for effects.
#7
totenkinder
Sep 24, 2008 9:07:03
Prismatic Burst [MIC] is fantastic, but expensive.

Actually, you can. Even with a good crit range, elemental burst enchantments are almost always worse than two regular elemental enchantments.

Yeah, you're right. Elemental enchantments cap at 5d6 dice per hit while the bursts cap at 2d10 (depending on your crit mod)
#8
pithica
Sep 24, 2008 9:30:38 Slow burst causes slow on a Crit. The save is only DC 17, if I recall correctly, which is low, but considering that you'll be critting 60% of the time, and it's only like +3,000gp to the cost of the weapon, I'd say that it's worth it.
#9
dudinator321
Sep 24, 2008 12:14:22 I think I'll probably get enfeebling since it offers no save. If your strength drop down to zero, doesn't it mean you can't move?
#10
pithica
Sep 24, 2008 13:35:28 I'm pretty sure that Enfeebling (MIC/BoVD) does offer a save, DC17 if I remember correctly. I don't have books open at the moment to confirm though. It's also a +2 enhancement, meaning a minimum increase in price of 14k. Slow burst is a straight ~3k, and has the effect of a slow spell (1 move or 1 standard action a round, no full attacks). There are spells to negate/overcome both, and they're all available a good portion of the time.
#11
dudinator321
Sep 24, 2008 13:46:12 Enfeebling

On a critical hit, the opponent takes 1d6+2 Strength damage
(no save, SR applies).

When hitting a creature not susceptible to critical hits, make
the confirmation roll anyway. If successful, the opponent
takes the Strength damage, but not the weapon’s critical
multiplier.(DMG p222)
#12
snex
Sep 24, 2008 13:46:36
I think I'll probably get enfeebling since it offers no save. If your strength drop down to zero, doesn't it mean you can't move?

at first i thought this *must* be wrong, and that it gave a STR penalty rather than damage. but nope, its doing STR damage! insane. yes once your STR drops to 0 you cannot move and are considererd helpless.

it does offer spell resistance though, and the caster level is only 5. still.. most things this will be useful against wont have SR.
#13
Senevri
Sep 24, 2008 14:16:35 Clearly based on Ray of Enfeeblement. Which means, check for Errata.
#14
dudinator321
Sep 24, 2008 15:01:11 If I combine this with Island in Time from (tob) and go Dervish 10, I could easily drop 50+ strength from an opponent.
#15
pithica
Sep 24, 2008 16:08:55 Just don't expect to use it against the BBEG. Sheltered Vitality can be put in a wand and it can be persisted. In fact, I would honestly expect every NPC you come across to have it up after you use it twice.
#16
dudinator321
Sep 24, 2008 16:52:59 So would you say I should mix the crit curses I have on my scimitars? Are there others like enfeebling?
#17
pithica
Sep 25, 2008 8:39:10 Well, I would say that having more than one trick up your sleeve is always better than being a one-hit wonder. It's harder to counteract. If it only takes one easily available buff to make the character's most powerful attack pointless, expect it to get used, a lot.

In specifics to Enfeebling, though, I would tell you DM about it before trying it and see if he/she wants to nerf it. 1d6 Strength damage on 60% of all successful attacks with no save is broken, pure and simple. With 10+ attacks per round, it isn't even fun anymore. In practice, cheese like that just encourages backlashes from the DM or the rest of the party. (Unless of course, you're playing in a campaign in which your DM has encouraged you to go for the most munchkin character you can.)
#18
SIKBUZ
Sep 25, 2008 22:33:22 Where is Disciple of Dispater from? Thnx
#19
jaronk
Sep 25, 2008 22:59:28 BoVD.

Another great thing with critical hits is the Eviscerator feat from Libris Mortis... go Necropolitan to get it. Every time you crit, all living foes within 30 feet become shaken for one minute. Quite handy.

JaronK
#20
royard
Sep 26, 2008 2:34:11 There's also the Enervating weapon enhancement from MIC which gives a negative level on crit.

Actually, check out lightning strike (weapon style feat) from CW before deciding you want to use scimitar.
#21
jaronk
Sep 26, 2008 6:52:02 You mean Lightning Mace? If so, that feat is best with Kukris... once you slap the Aptitude enchantment on them.

JaronK
#22
idontmuchcareforit
Sep 26, 2008 9:24:06 make your weapons abyssal bloodiron for free power critical that stacks. If you don't take prismatic burst after you have a +4 effective enhancement bonus, you're a fool. Straight up 30k, no enhancement bonus, good against pretty much everything. I like sure striking from aeg also. It overcomes 5 points of dr for a +1 bonus. That's like 5 free damage at higher levels.
#23
SIKBUZ
Sep 26, 2008 22:58:12 Are there any good or nuetral alignment classes that benefit from the critical increase like the disciple of dispater?
#24
jaronk
Sep 26, 2008 23:28:38 Psionic Weapon Master, but the prerequisites for that are much harder and the effect is much less (+2 critical range). Note that weapons of legacy can improve critical range though, which gets fun.

JaronK

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 dudinator321 Sep 23, 2008 19:27:08	My friend is thinking about making a quadruple scimitar wielding thri-kreen. He's going to get 8 levels of Desciple of Dispater, and improved critical feat. This will bring his crit range to 9-20 X2. I've been looking everywhere and I'm wondering if there's anything that gives you additional effects if you crit. Is there anything like, "enemies hit on crit must make xxx save or become stunned"?
#2 jaronk Sep 23, 2008 20:12:45	The Enfeebling enchantment from BoED makes enemies take 2+d6 Str damage on a critical hit, so that's handy. JaronK
#3 altpersona Sep 23, 2008 20:13:12	yes. im 90% sure there are. check the index pdfs.
#4 totenkinder Sep 23, 2008 21:47:08	You can't go wrong with one of the burst enchantments mind you.
#5 tytalus Sep 23, 2008 23:59:00	Prismatic Burst [MIC] is fantastic, but expensive. You can't go wrong with one of the burst enchantments mind you. Actually, you can. Even with a good crit range, elemental burst enchantments are almost always worse than two regular elemental enchantments.
#6 Senevri Sep 24, 2008 3:59:57	Telling Blow nets SA dice on crit. Complete Scoundrel has tons of feats trading SA dice for effects.
#7 totenkinder Sep 24, 2008 9:07:03	Prismatic Burst [MIC] is fantastic, but expensive. Actually, you can. Even with a good crit range, elemental burst enchantments are almost always worse than two regular elemental enchantments. Yeah, you're right. Elemental enchantments cap at 5d6 dice per hit while the bursts cap at 2d10 (depending on your crit mod)
#8 pithica Sep 24, 2008 9:30:38	Slow burst causes slow on a Crit. The save is only DC 17, if I recall correctly, which is low, but considering that you'll be critting 60% of the time, and it's only like +3,000gp to the cost of the weapon, I'd say that it's worth it.
#9 dudinator321 Sep 24, 2008 12:14:22	I think I'll probably get enfeebling since it offers no save. If your strength drop down to zero, doesn't it mean you can't move?
#10 pithica Sep 24, 2008 13:35:28	I'm pretty sure that Enfeebling (MIC/BoVD) does offer a save, DC17 if I remember correctly. I don't have books open at the moment to confirm though. It's also a +2 enhancement, meaning a minimum increase in price of 14k. Slow burst is a straight ~3k, and has the effect of a slow spell (1 move or 1 standard action a round, no full attacks). There are spells to negate/overcome both, and they're all available a good portion of the time.
#11 dudinator321 Sep 24, 2008 13:46:12	Enfeebling On a critical hit, the opponent takes 1d6+2 Strength damage (no save, SR applies). When hitting a creature not susceptible to critical hits, make the confirmation roll anyway. If successful, the opponent takes the Strength damage, but not the weapon’s critical multiplier.(DMG p222)
#12 snex Sep 24, 2008 13:46:36	I think I'll probably get enfeebling since it offers no save. If your strength drop down to zero, doesn't it mean you can't move? at first i thought this must be wrong, and that it gave a STR penalty rather than damage. but nope, its doing STR damage! insane. yes once your STR drops to 0 you cannot move and are considererd helpless. it does offer spell resistance though, and the caster level is only 5. still.. most things this will be useful against wont have SR.
#13 Senevri Sep 24, 2008 14:16:35	Clearly based on Ray of Enfeeblement. Which means, check for Errata.
#14 dudinator321 Sep 24, 2008 15:01:11	If I combine this with Island in Time from (tob) and go Dervish 10, I could easily drop 50+ strength from an opponent.
#15 pithica Sep 24, 2008 16:08:55	Just don't expect to use it against the BBEG. Sheltered Vitality can be put in a wand and it can be persisted. In fact, I would honestly expect every NPC you come across to have it up after you use it twice.
#16 dudinator321 Sep 24, 2008 16:52:59	So would you say I should mix the crit curses I have on my scimitars? Are there others like enfeebling?
#17 pithica Sep 25, 2008 8:39:10	Well, I would say that having more than one trick up your sleeve is always better than being a one-hit wonder. It's harder to counteract. If it only takes one easily available buff to make the character's most powerful attack pointless, expect it to get used, a lot. In specifics to Enfeebling, though, I would tell you DM about it before trying it and see if he/she wants to nerf it. 1d6 Strength damage on 60% of all successful attacks with no save is broken, pure and simple. With 10+ attacks per round, it isn't even fun anymore. In practice, cheese like that just encourages backlashes from the DM or the rest of the party. (Unless of course, you're playing in a campaign in which your DM has encouraged you to go for the most munchkin character you can.)
#18 SIKBUZ Sep 25, 2008 22:33:22	Where is Disciple of Dispater from? Thnx
#19 jaronk Sep 25, 2008 22:59:28	BoVD. Another great thing with critical hits is the Eviscerator feat from Libris Mortis... go Necropolitan to get it. Every time you crit, all living foes within 30 feet become shaken for one minute. Quite handy. JaronK
#20 royard Sep 26, 2008 2:34:11	There's also the Enervating weapon enhancement from MIC which gives a negative level on crit. Actually, check out lightning strike (weapon style feat) from CW before deciding you want to use scimitar.
#21 jaronk Sep 26, 2008 6:52:02	You mean Lightning Mace? If so, that feat is best with Kukris... once you slap the Aptitude enchantment on them. JaronK
#22 idontmuchcareforit Sep 26, 2008 9:24:06	make your weapons abyssal bloodiron for free power critical that stacks. If you don't take prismatic burst after you have a +4 effective enhancement bonus, you're a fool. Straight up 30k, no enhancement bonus, good against pretty much everything. I like sure striking from aeg also. It overcomes 5 points of dr for a +1 bonus. That's like 5 free damage at higher levels.
#23 SIKBUZ Sep 26, 2008 22:58:12	Are there any good or nuetral alignment classes that benefit from the critical increase like the disciple of dispater?
#24 jaronk Sep 26, 2008 23:28:38	Psionic Weapon Master, but the prerequisites for that are much harder and the effect is much less (+2 critical range). Note that weapons of legacy can improve critical range though, which gets fun. JaronK