Criticize this tank please - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Criticize this tank please

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
uhm_hoi
Oct 01, 2010 16:20:30 After another tpk me and my group decided to make some slightly more powerful characters for a new campaign and I get to play the tank. We start at lvl4 and we'll most likely end the campaign around lvl 12. This time, I want to try a tank based around standstill, as I red on the boards they're pretty powerfull.

This is my build:
Dwarf
Barbarian1 aberant blood, lion totem variant (CC), whirling frenzy variant
Barbarian2 wolf totem variant (=improved trip) (UA)
Fighter1 combat reflexes, inhuman reach
Fighter2 resolute(?)
Fighter3
Crusader1 standstill
Fighter4 spiked chain proficiency
Crusader2 thicket of blades stance
Warblade1 power attack
Fighter5
Fighter6 mage slayer
Fighter7 close-quarters fighting
Fighter8 Deft Opportunist
Fighter9
Fighter10 Weapon Focus, Improved Initiative
Occult slayer

My ability scores are str14, dex15, con15, int10, wis12, cha6

Okay, this is updated after maat_mons post.
My main concern is wether resolute will effect my ability to keep opponents in place or not. Does anyone have any experience with this? Or is there another good way to increase my will save?

I can use any 3.5 books I can find
#2
dandu
Oct 01, 2010 21:29:07 Steadfast Determination.
#3
dead_weasel
Oct 01, 2010 22:26:44 I assume that that first Inhuman Reach is supposed to be Aberrant Blood. You cannot change totems without DM approval, and doing so would overwrite the previous totems' benefits.
#4
uhm_hoi
Oct 02, 2010 7:51:38 I fixed the aberant blood thing.

About the totems, lion totem from complete champion replaces fast movement and wolf totem from unearthed arcana replaces uncanny dodge, trap sense and improved uncanny dodge. As they replace different abilities I thought it would be okay to take both variants.
Does anyone know where it is written that one cant have multiple alternative class features?

And the steadfast determination... it has endurance as a prereq and i wouldnt even know 1 feat I would replace, so what 2 feats should I drop for it? Also, if there is anything I can replace without reducing the characters effectiveness dramatically, what feats should I drop and wouldn't the resolute alternative class feature from complete champion be more effective?

Another option to increase the will save is to replace power attack with weapon focus so I can start taking levels of occult slayer from lvl 10 and up, take power attack at 12 and take mage slayer and close quarter's fighting later in the build if we get that far... But I fear the DC of the standstill would be to low from 9-11 if I dont have power attack at 9. Does any1 have any experience with this and has a recommendation on when to take power attack with a standstill character?
#5
dead_weasel
Oct 02, 2010 10:22:42
About the totems, lion totem from complete champion replaces fast movement and wolf totem from unearthed arcana replaces uncanny dodge, trap sense and improved uncanny dodge. As they replace different abilities I thought it would be okay to take both variants.
Does anyone know where it is written that one cant have multiple alternative class features?

Nowhere does it say this. I assumed that you were using the same source for the totems, which would not work because they would then replace the same class features. You can use as many variants as you like, so long as you 'have' the class feature you are giving up.
#6
Maat_Mons
Oct 02, 2010 20:47:16
Improved initiative doesn't seem vital to the build since combat reflexes allows you to make attacks of opportunity while flat-footed. It seems strange to start with improved initiative instead of stand still.

See if you can use the exoticist fighter variant (Dragon 310). It trades martial weapon proficiency for four exotic weapon proficiencies. Alternately, see if you can use the weapon group variant.

You can take two levels of psychic warrior or feat rogue instead of four extra levels of fighter. If you can use the strong-arm alternate combat style (Dragon 326), you can gain power attack with two levels of ranger instead of two extra levels of fighter. You could also take a third level of ranger for endurance.
#7
uhm_hoi
Oct 03, 2010 10:04:20 I completely overlooked the fact that I could make attacks of opportunity while flatfooted. Thanks a lot, that opens up a feat slot early in the build. Maybe I could replace it with resolute. It would fix all will save problems, but when activated the attacks of opportunity wont hit as often as they should. Does any1 have any advice on this?

Also I was thinking about replacing the 3rd level of crusader with warblade. That way I could get iron heart surge and moment of perfect mind for some extra defenses vs nasty casters.

I dont really like the psychic warrior and the feat rogue. I like a full base attack bonus too much. Also I dont have access to dragon magazines.
#8
uhm_hoi
Oct 08, 2010 17:48:51
Bumb up

Does anyone have an answer to my resolute question?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 uhm_hoi Oct 01, 2010 16:20:30	After another tpk me and my group decided to make some slightly more powerful characters for a new campaign and I get to play the tank. We start at lvl4 and we'll most likely end the campaign around lvl 12. This time, I want to try a tank based around standstill, as I red on the boards they're pretty powerfull. This is my build: Dwarf Barbarian1 aberant blood, lion totem variant (CC), whirling frenzy variant Barbarian2 wolf totem variant (=improved trip) (UA) Fighter1 combat reflexes, inhuman reach Fighter2 resolute(?) Fighter3 Crusader1 standstill Fighter4 spiked chain proficiency Crusader2 thicket of blades stance Warblade1 power attack Fighter5 Fighter6 mage slayer Fighter7 close-quarters fighting Fighter8 Deft Opportunist Fighter9 Fighter10 Weapon Focus, Improved Initiative Occult slayer My ability scores are str14, dex15, con15, int10, wis12, cha6 Okay, this is updated after maat_mons post. My main concern is wether resolute will effect my ability to keep opponents in place or not. Does anyone have any experience with this? Or is there another good way to increase my will save? I can use any 3.5 books I can find
#2 dandu Oct 01, 2010 21:29:07	Steadfast Determination.
#3 dead_weasel Oct 01, 2010 22:26:44	I assume that that first Inhuman Reach is supposed to be Aberrant Blood. You cannot change totems without DM approval, and doing so would overwrite the previous totems' benefits.
#4 uhm_hoi Oct 02, 2010 7:51:38	I fixed the aberant blood thing. About the totems, lion totem from complete champion replaces fast movement and wolf totem from unearthed arcana replaces uncanny dodge, trap sense and improved uncanny dodge. As they replace different abilities I thought it would be okay to take both variants. Does anyone know where it is written that one cant have multiple alternative class features? And the steadfast determination... it has endurance as a prereq and i wouldnt even know 1 feat I would replace, so what 2 feats should I drop for it? Also, if there is anything I can replace without reducing the characters effectiveness dramatically, what feats should I drop and wouldn't the resolute alternative class feature from complete champion be more effective? Another option to increase the will save is to replace power attack with weapon focus so I can start taking levels of occult slayer from lvl 10 and up, take power attack at 12 and take mage slayer and close quarter's fighting later in the build if we get that far... But I fear the DC of the standstill would be to low from 9-11 if I dont have power attack at 9. Does any1 have any experience with this and has a recommendation on when to take power attack with a standstill character?
#5 dead_weasel Oct 02, 2010 10:22:42	About the totems, lion totem from complete champion replaces fast movement and wolf totem from unearthed arcana replaces uncanny dodge, trap sense and improved uncanny dodge. As they replace different abilities I thought it would be okay to take both variants. Does anyone know where it is written that one cant have multiple alternative class features? Nowhere does it say this. I assumed that you were using the same source for the totems, which would not work because they would then replace the same class features. You can use as many variants as you like, so long as you 'have' the class feature you are giving up.
#6 Maat_Mons Oct 02, 2010 20:47:16	Improved initiative doesn't seem vital to the build since combat reflexes allows you to make attacks of opportunity while flat-footed. It seems strange to start with improved initiative instead of stand still. See if you can use the exoticist fighter variant (Dragon 310). It trades martial weapon proficiency for four exotic weapon proficiencies. Alternately, see if you can use the weapon group variant. You can take two levels of psychic warrior or feat rogue instead of four extra levels of fighter. If you can use the strong-arm alternate combat style (Dragon 326), you can gain power attack with two levels of ranger instead of two extra levels of fighter. You could also take a third level of ranger for endurance.
#7 uhm_hoi Oct 03, 2010 10:04:20	I completely overlooked the fact that I could make attacks of opportunity while flatfooted. Thanks a lot, that opens up a feat slot early in the build. Maybe I could replace it with resolute. It would fix all will save problems, but when activated the attacks of opportunity wont hit as often as they should. Does any1 have any advice on this? Also I was thinking about replacing the 3rd level of crusader with warblade. That way I could get iron heart surge and moment of perfect mind for some extra defenses vs nasty casters. I dont really like the psychic warrior and the feat rogue. I like a full base attack bonus too much. Also I dont have access to dragon magazines.
#8 uhm_hoi Oct 08, 2010 17:48:51	Bumb up Does anyone have an answer to my resolute question?