Critique the Ascetic Ambusher - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

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#1 rebel7284 May 17, 2009 2:09:57	Looking for critique and suggestions I was looking at the Invisible Fist alternate class feature for monks in exemplars of evil. Relevant parts: Show Replaces: If you select this class feature, you do not gain the evasion ability, nor do you gain improved evasion at 9th level. Benefit: As an immediate action, you can become invisible for 1 round. You must wait 3 rounds before you can use this ability again.
#2 lormador May 17, 2009 8:00:02	What level will this see play at? I'd run a couple of quick calculations on probable opponents before I ran this.... all the bonus damage in the world won't help if the attacks don't hit, and we're looking at some fairly severe low-level BA suffering. That's not to say that it won't work, but just be sure.
#3 pithica May 17, 2009 9:02:16	There are two ways you can get around the bonus damage problem. #1. Take the Penetrating Strike ACF from Dungeonscape at Rogue 3. With that, as long as your flanking, you do half sneak attack no matter what. Which means you only have to worry about targets that can't be flanked. Add on the standard weapon crystals and/or wands of Xstrike on top of that, and you're pretty much golden. #2. Forget the rogue levels alltogether and switch them out for Ranger levels and go Swift Hunter/Ascetic Hunter instead (put the feats in the same level, build changes to Scout 1/Ranger 1/Monk 2/LT Barb 1/Scout +2/Ranger +13). This gives you full monk unarmed damage (with superior unarmed strike or monks belt), 5d6 skirmish (which LT barb lets you take advantage of every round), and your skirmish damage works on your favored enemies no matter what. Take the Arcane Hunter (arcane spellcaster favored enemies) ACF and be sure to pick favored enemies that reflect the skirmish damage immunity, and you're golden. Of course, I personally would recommend getting rid of invisible fist, as it won't really benefit this type of build, and instead taking the spell reflection ACF at ranger 9. But that's just me. This build also has the advantage of being a TWF build, which means 3 more attacks per round to add that skirmish damage to. That brings me to a question...Why aren't you using TWF in your build?
#4 rebel7284 May 17, 2009 11:25:34	There are two ways you can get around the bonus damage problem. #1. Take the Penetrating Strike ACF from Dungeonscape at Rogue 3. With that, as long as your flanking, you do half sneak attack no matter what. Which means you only have to worry about targets that can't be flanked. Add on the standard weapon crystals and/or wands of Xstrike on top of that, and you're pretty much golden. Can Weapon Crystals even be attached to a monk's fist? I was thinking about wands since the character IS a rogue and so can UMD them nicely. Thank you for pointing out the ACF though, it seems like it could be very useful especially if the DM forces the wands to be standard action. #2. Forget the rogue levels alltogether and switch them out for Ranger levels and go Swift Hunter/Ascetic Hunter instead (put the feats in the same level, build changes to Scout 1/Ranger 1/Monk 2/LT Barb 1/Scout +2/Ranger +13). This gives you full monk unarmed damage (with superior unarmed strike or monks belt), 5d6 skirmish (which LT barb lets you take advantage of every round), and your skirmish damage works on your favored enemies no matter what. Take the Arcane Hunter (arcane spellcaster favored enemies) ACF and be sure to pick favored enemies that reflect the skirmish damage immunity, and you're golden. Of course, I personally would recommend getting rid of invisible fist, as it won't really benefit this type of build, and instead taking the spell reflection ACF at ranger 9. But that's just me. This build also has the advantage of being a TWF build, which means 3 more attacks per round to add that skirmish damage to. I would get rid of invisible fist in that build too. While it does have certain advantages (like epic ready BAB), it does miss out on a lot of bonus damage dice. That brings me to a question...Why aren't you using TWF in your build? Feat heavy and not sure how well it works with flurry, rereading the rules for flurry, it seems to work so I put it in. However, this brings my attack to hit bonus even lower. Are there any other easy ways to make attacks into touch attacks besides UMDing Wraithstrike?
#5 dr_rocktopus May 17, 2009 12:50:39	Persistent Moonblade from a friend comes highly recommended. It will solve a LOT of your problems.
#6 rebel7284 May 17, 2009 16:23:51	Persistent Moonblade from a friend comes highly recommended. It will solve a LOT of your problems. That defeats the purpose of having unarmed strikes though.
#7 dr_rocktopus May 17, 2009 16:30:22	Well, yes, yes it does. OR you could say it frees you from needing them. Personal choice. I really like your build, I'm just offering up an additional option that you might consider if you feel that your current layout doesn't suit.
#8 pithica May 17, 2009 17:23:57	Can Weapon Crystals even be attached to a monk's fist? I was thinking about wands since the character IS a rogue and so can UMD them nicely. Thank you for pointing out the ACF though, it seems like it could be very useful especially if the DM forces the wands to be standard action. I would recommend that you check the Rules Compendium, it cleared up once and for all that swift action spells come out as swift action wands. I generally use Wand Chambered weapons and/or Casting gloves to wield them without having to draw/put them away. Technically, the weapon crystals can, since Monk unarmed strikes count as manufactured weapons and as magic (if you take enough levels of monk or have a caster with GMF/GMW or Amulet of Mighty Fists). The mighty fist bonus should also allow the greaters to be attached. I would get rid of invisible fist in that build too. While it does have certain advantages (like epic ready BAB), it does miss out on a lot of bonus damage dice. Well, Rangers also get a spell called Hunters Eye, which can give them sneak attack on top of their skirmish damage, if you really feel you need it. With the right feats/equipment, you can be rolling in the 4-8d8 base damage on all your attacks though, which, along with all the other boosts to damage and the 5d6 skirmish, is generally more than enough, in my experience. Once you have pounce, skirmish is way easier, in my experience, to activate than sneak attack. With swift hunter and good Favored Enemy choices, along with the same Xstrike wands/weapon crystals the rogue needs, it's easier to get around immunity, in my experience as well. I mean, the Arcane Hunter ACF takes care of your biggest threat right off the bat, Arcane Spellcasters. If you take FE's of your next three worst components, the only big enemy you still have to deal with is divine spellcasters. You can get around that somewhat with the Urban Ranger variant and picking your opposed religion. Feat heavy and not sure how well it works with flurry, rereading the rules for flurry, it seems to work so I put it in. I've heard it argued that it doesn't before, but I've never seen it that way in my own readings, and I've never had a DM rule it that way. However, this brings my attack to hit bonus even lower. Are there any other easy ways to make attacks into touch attacks besides UMDing Wraithstrike? I generally just use Wraithstrike and/or Find the Gap, depending on the DM and the way the game rolls. In addition to that, you can also find some solid feats that will add to your to hit roll, like Knowledge Devotion and/or Law Devotion. There's also wands of Divine Power and Divine Favor. And things like GMW/GMF and others. In dire situations, you could also look at scrolls of Bite of the Werebear for +8 to hit, amongst other things.

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

rebel7284

May 17, 2009 2:09:57

Looking for critique and suggestions

I was looking at the Invisible Fist alternate class feature for monks in exemplars of evil.

Relevant parts:

Show

Replaces: If you select this class feature, you do not gain
the evasion ability, nor do you gain improved evasion at
9th level.
Benefit: As an immediate action, you can become invisible
for 1 round. You must wait 3 rounds before you can use this
ability again.

lormador

May 17, 2009 8:00:02

What level will this see play at?

I'd run a couple of quick calculations on probable opponents before I ran this.... all the bonus damage in the world won't help if the attacks don't hit, and we're looking at some fairly severe low-level BA suffering.

That's not to say that it won't work, but just be sure.

pithica

May 17, 2009 9:02:16

There are two ways you can get around the bonus damage problem.

#1. Take the Penetrating Strike ACF from Dungeonscape at Rogue 3. With that, as long as your flanking, you do half sneak attack no matter what. Which means you only have to worry about targets that can't be flanked. Add on the standard weapon crystals and/or wands of Xstrike on top of that, and you're pretty much golden.

#2. Forget the rogue levels alltogether and switch them out for Ranger levels and go Swift Hunter/Ascetic Hunter instead (put the feats in the same level, build changes to Scout 1/Ranger 1/Monk 2/LT Barb 1/Scout +2/Ranger +13). This gives you full monk unarmed damage (with superior unarmed strike or monks belt), 5d6 skirmish (which LT barb lets you take advantage of every round), and your skirmish damage works on your favored enemies no matter what. Take the Arcane Hunter (arcane spellcaster favored enemies) ACF and be sure to pick favored enemies that reflect the skirmish damage immunity, and you're golden. Of course, I personally would recommend getting rid of invisible fist, as it won't really benefit this type of build, and instead taking the spell reflection ACF at ranger 9. But that's just me. This build also has the advantage of being a TWF build, which means 3 more attacks per round to add that skirmish damage to.

That brings me to a question...Why aren't you using TWF in your build?

rebel7284

May 17, 2009 11:25:34

There are two ways you can get around the bonus damage problem.

#1. Take the Penetrating Strike ACF from Dungeonscape at Rogue 3. With that, as long as your flanking, you do half sneak attack no matter what. Which means you only have to worry about targets that can't be flanked. Add on the standard weapon crystals and/or wands of Xstrike on top of that, and you're pretty much golden.

Can Weapon Crystals even be attached to a monk's fist? I was thinking about wands since the character IS a rogue and so can UMD them nicely. Thank you for pointing out the ACF though, it seems like it could be very useful especially if the DM forces the wands to be standard action.

#2. Forget the rogue levels alltogether and switch them out for Ranger levels and go Swift Hunter/Ascetic Hunter instead (put the feats in the same level, build changes to Scout 1/Ranger 1/Monk 2/LT Barb 1/Scout +2/Ranger +13). This gives you full monk unarmed damage (with superior unarmed strike or monks belt), 5d6 skirmish (which LT barb lets you take advantage of every round), and your skirmish damage works on your favored enemies no matter what. Take the Arcane Hunter (arcane spellcaster favored enemies) ACF and be sure to pick favored enemies that reflect the skirmish damage immunity, and you're golden. Of course, I personally would recommend getting rid of invisible fist, as it won't really benefit this type of build, and instead taking the spell reflection ACF at ranger 9. But that's just me. This build also has the advantage of being a TWF build, which means 3 more attacks per round to add that skirmish damage to.

I would get rid of invisible fist in that build too. While it does have certain advantages (like epic ready BAB), it does miss out on a lot of bonus damage dice.

That brings me to a question...Why aren't you using TWF in your build?

Feat heavy and not sure how well it works with flurry, rereading the rules for flurry, it seems to work so I put it in.

However, this brings my attack to hit bonus even lower. Are there any other easy ways to make attacks into touch attacks besides UMDing Wraithstrike?

dr_rocktopus

May 17, 2009 12:50:39

Persistent Moonblade from a friend comes highly recommended. It will solve a LOT of your problems.

rebel7284

May 17, 2009 16:23:51

Persistent Moonblade from a friend comes highly recommended. It will solve a LOT of your problems.

That defeats the purpose of having unarmed strikes though.

dr_rocktopus

May 17, 2009 16:30:22

Well, yes, yes it does.
OR you could say it frees you from needing them.
Personal choice. I really like your build, I'm just offering up an additional option that you might consider if you feel that your current layout doesn't suit.

pithica

May 17, 2009 17:23:57

Can Weapon Crystals even be attached to a monk's fist? I was thinking about wands since the character IS a rogue and so can UMD them nicely. Thank you for pointing out the ACF though, it seems like it could be very useful especially if the DM forces the wands to be standard action.

I would recommend that you check the Rules Compendium, it cleared up once and for all that swift action spells come out as swift action wands. I generally use Wand Chambered weapons and/or Casting gloves to wield them without having to draw/put them away.

Technically, the weapon crystals can, since Monk unarmed strikes count as manufactured weapons and as magic (if you take enough levels of monk or have a caster with GMF/GMW or Amulet of Mighty Fists). The mighty fist bonus should also allow the greaters to be attached.

I would get rid of invisible fist in that build too. While it does have certain advantages (like epic ready BAB), it does miss out on a lot of bonus damage dice.

Well, Rangers also get a spell called Hunters Eye, which can give them sneak attack on top of their skirmish damage, if you really feel you need it. With the right feats/equipment, you can be rolling in the 4-8d8 base damage on all your attacks though, which, along with all the other boosts to damage and the 5d6 skirmish, is generally more than enough, in my experience.

Once you have pounce, skirmish is way easier, in my experience, to activate than sneak attack. With swift hunter and good Favored Enemy choices, along with the same Xstrike wands/weapon crystals the rogue needs, it's easier to get around immunity, in my experience as well. I mean, the Arcane Hunter ACF takes care of your biggest threat right off the bat, Arcane Spellcasters. If you take FE's of your next three worst components, the only big enemy you still have to deal with is divine spellcasters. You can get around that somewhat with the Urban Ranger variant and picking your opposed religion.

Feat heavy and not sure how well it works with flurry, rereading the rules for flurry, it seems to work so I put it in.

I've heard it argued that it doesn't before, but I've never seen it that way in my own readings, and I've never had a DM rule it that way.
However, this brings my attack to hit bonus even lower. Are there any other easy ways to make attacks into touch attacks besides UMDing Wraithstrike?
I generally just use Wraithstrike and/or Find the Gap, depending on the DM and the way the game rolls. In addition to that, you can also find some solid feats that will add to your to hit roll, like Knowledge Devotion and/or Law Devotion. There's also wands of Divine Power and Divine Favor. And things like GMW/GMF and others. In dire situations, you could also look at scrolls of Bite of the Werebear for +8 to hit, amongst other things.