- 1 Fighter 1 Power Attack, Dwarven Sub level Weapon Focus (all axes) (RoS)
- 2 Fighter 2 Resolute(CC)
- 3 Fighter 3 Improved Bull Rush
- 4 Fighter 4 Close Quarters Fighting (CW), Str +1
- 5 Fighter 5
- 6 Fighter 6 Blind Fight, Combat Reflexes
- 7 Fighter 7
- 8 Fighter 8 Improved Sunder, Str +1
- 9 Fighter 9 Shock Trooper (CW)
- 10 Fighter 10 Combat Brute (CW)
- 11 Fighter 11
- 12 Fighter 12 Armor Specialization (PHB II), Greater Resiliency (CW)
- 13 Fighter 13
- 14 Fighter 14 Shield Specialization (PHB II)
- 15 Fighter 15 Defensive Sweep (PHB II)
- 16 Fighter 16 Overpowering Attack (PHB II)
- 17 Fighter 17
- 18 Fighter 18 Shield Ward (PHB II), Powerful Charge (MH)
- 19 Fighter 19
- 20 Fighter 20 Greater Powerful Charge
Using a 28 point buy I suggest these stats, unmodified by the Gauntlets of Ogre Power, but including the racial mods.
- Str 16
- Dex 12
- Con 16
- Int 10
- Wis 10
- Cha 10
Stats at level 7 including all equipment mods.
Bab +7/+2 or +11/+6 with Str mod or +8/+3 with Dex mod
+12/+7 with +1 weapon
+13/+8 with +1 axe
+13/+8 with any nonmagical master work axe
Saves Fort +9 (+3 Con, +1 cloak, +5 base), Ref +4 (+2 base, +1 Dex, +1 cloak), Will +3 (+2 base, +1 cloak, boost to +6 with Resolute)
AC 22 (+9 armor, +2 shield, +1 Dex)
Hit points 12 (1st level dwarven sub level bonus) + 21 (Con x 7 levels) + 6d10 = somewhere around 63
Equipment
19,000 gp
+1 axe with psychokinetic 1d4 force damage, or corrosive 1d6 acid damage, or 1d6 sonic damage 8,000+
Healing belt 750
Boots of the Mountain King 1500
Cloak of Resistance +1 1000
Gauntlets of Ogre Power +2 4000
+1 Full Plate Armor 2,650
MW Heavy Steel Shield 170
600 gp
Levels 1 - 7
Able to Power Attack, better chance at negating grapples and concealment, able to boost Will saves, and Bull rush opponents into better tactical positions.
Level 8 – 15
Able to sunder enemy weapons and gain 6 different combat maneuvers as well gain DR 3/-, AC boost from shields, and anyone that is in melee with you gets AoO attacks. Also at this point you should be bull rushing opponents and getting free trips and free attacks of opportunity against them.
Level 16 – 20
Able to deal lots more damage either through single melee attacks or through charging plus all of the previous level benefits.
We are a pretty standard D&D 3.5 group and work well tactically as a team. So this is assuming that the Fighter will have access to all the normal boosts from the Cleric and Wizard.
So thoughts, ideas? Anything that needs improvement? Is there a PrC that would be better? Any other feat combos that should be used instead?
Thanks
I'd also not suggest a Fighter 20. If he's got access to the Tome of Battle, a Crusader 18 / Deepwarden 2 would be really tough to hurt.
Another thing to remember is that every weapon you sunder is less money after the battle is over. Sundering is bad.
I'd go for Mechanus Gear instead of Full Plate, and swap the Dex and Int. It gives him an extra +1 AC, more skill points and he's a dwarf, so he still moves just as fast..
I'd also not suggest a Fighter 20. If he's got access to the Tome of Battle, a Crusader 18 / Deepwarden 2 would be really tough to hurt.
Another thing to remember is that every weapon you sunder is less money after the battle is over. Sundering is bad.
Where is this Mechanus Gear?
The Tome of Battle is off limits, anything else?
If dropping Sunder then might as well drop Combat Brute, what would you suggest replacing those with?
Where is this Mechanus Gear?
Planar Handbook.
The Tome of Battle is off limits, anything else?
If dropping Sunder then might as well drop Combat Brute, what would you suggest replacing those with?
How does your friend feel about Gishes? Would the ability to form a one dwarf regiment via Persistent Body Outside Body be of interest?
Keep Sunder.
I love F/20 builds, but without feat improvement, there's a lot to be gained by dipping other classes. Deepwarden so you can use Con for Armor Dex is nice. Just be aware that a good Combat Reflexes ability runs on Dex.
If you are going to use Defensive Sweep, you should have some way of making sure the enemy doesn't move away from you. I suggest Stand Still.
Powerful Charge and Greater Powerful Charge give you miniscule return for the feats you spend on them. If you want to do extra dmg on a charge, get LEap Attack and invest in your Jump.
Getting +dice dmg on your weapon also does not serve you well. You want to hit, and hit every time. Up the enhancement bonus, and make your iteratives rock.
Since you can't get Pounce as a Feat, I suggest sacking a level of Fighter for Barbarian or Psychic Warrior, and get Pounce. Multiple attacks on a charge is hard to beat.
The biggest dmg dealing means for Melee in the current game are charging and AoO's. Ideally, you should have the means to generate both. You've got the Uber Charge basics if you take Leap Attack. The combo for AoO's is generally Reach, Thicket of BLades stance, Stand Still, and Defensive Sweep. If they try to move, they don't...and you punish them. If they don't move, you punish them. AND you get Full Attacks. A lethal combination at higher levels.
Barbarian gets you the ability to Rage once/day, a useful buff, and Extra Rage gets you two more of those. If you take Psychic Warrior and Lion's Pounce, you also gain access to Psychic Weapon, the last huge buff for Melee's...making an attack a Touch Attack. Combined with Power Attack and Charge, devastating.
Instead of Resolute, which gimps your combat ability, I suggest spending a feat or a warblade level on Moment of Perfect Mind, which subs concentration for your Will Save, and makes Concentration a class skill. Taking a Warblade level means you can refresh it in any round you aren't actually using it.
Also, you want Shield Ward MUCH earlier in your build. A high Touch AC is a wonderful defense against many, many opponents.
Close Quarters Fighting is a great feat, but best left until later levels. The fact that it is not proactive (i.e.the DM determines when it's going to be useful) means its not as useful as Stand Still (which becomes part of a killing combination). If you aren't going to spend cash on Free Action, it's definitely worth it for the look on the DM's face when his Great Wyrm with the +73 Grapple modifier loses his grapple on you, or when the Kraken tries to wrap you up.
Improved Shield Bash is a feat you should look very, very strongly at. Keepign your AC while being able to attack with your shield basically means you are a TWF with a better AC. A heavy Shield is actually the best one handed dmg weapon in the game (+1 Bashing = 2-12 dmg). Also, it allows you to get the AC from Defender Spikes because you are 'wielding' it as a weapon all the time, a stricture for the Defender effect.
An Uber Shield is properly a Mithral H. Shield +5 of Bashing, with +5 Defender Spikes attached, and an Augment Stone of Missile Deflection for +5 AC against Ranged Attacks. With Shield Spec, that means you are getting +8 AC while fighting, +13 AC while not using it to fight, and +13/+18 against Ranged attacks, while ignoring the first ranged attack in a round. Sweet, yes?
My sig has a link to my Lockdown build, something for you to consider as far as tactics go. Ogrelock, also in the thread, abandons the Spec Tree for Uber Charger love (which you have worked in there).
Also, for boots? I heavily recommend Steadfast Boots instead of Boots of the Mountain King. The bonus against Overruns, etc is virtually the same, but the ability to be readied against any charge attack is PRICELESS.
==Aelryinth
Combat Brute, unless it requires Imp Sunder, which I don't remember it doing, is great for a wide variety of reasons. What books are allowed?
Combat Brute does require improved sunder.
Basically all books are allowed except Unearth Arcana and Tome of Battle. Its a long story.
Ignore the Stuff about Sunder. It's a distracting argument for a perfectly viable combat manuver. Whatever you lose to Sunder will be made up in other areas...bring the broken sword to the local ruler and get rewarded, the residual magic in the blade can be salvaged by some wizard, etc etc.
Keep Sunder.
Yeah, he's smart and probably wont use it unless really really necessary.
I love F/20 builds, but without feat improvement, there's a lot to be gained by dipping other classes. Deepwarden so you can use Con for Armor Dex is nice. Just be aware that a good Combat Reflexes ability runs on Dex.
Would you then lower the Dex to boost Str or Con? Because wearing heavy armor limits your Dex to AC anyway, so whats it matter if it is coming from Con or Dex right? Mithral, duh. Got it. Never mind. :D
I kind of threw Combat Reflexes in there just to have a little something extra, not really making it a focus. Do you think Dex should be pumped up more?
If you are going to use Defensive Sweep, you should have some way of making sure the enemy doesn't move away from you. I suggest Stand Still.
Good call. I like that!
Powerful Charge and Greater Powerful Charge give you miniscule return for the feats you spend on them. If you want to do extra dmg on a charge, get LEap Attack and invest in your Jump.
Ah, I knew there was something better, I kind of just threw those in there cause I couldn't think of anything better.
My personal preference is to never lower your Bab, so I dont know how often my friend will be using Power Attack, but I am generally not keen on it. However, being able to double or even triple it... thats nice!
Getting +dice dmg on your weapon also does not serve you well. You want to hit, and hit every time. Up the enhancement bonus, and make your iteratives rock.
Yeah I knew that one two I just couldn't think of any other enhancement to add and didnt even consider a +2! Thats killer!
Since you can't get Pounce as a Feat, I suggest sacking a level of Fighter for Barbarian or Psychic Warrior, and get Pounce. Multiple attacks on a charge is hard to beat.
The prereq for Lions Pounce is Wild Shape ability. How do you get that from Barbarian? Not going to take Psychic Warrior.
The biggest dmg dealing means for Melee in the current game are charging and AoO's. Ideally, you should have the means to generate both. You've got the Uber Charge basics if you take Leap Attack. The combo for AoO's is generally Reach, Thicket of BLades stance, Stand Still, and Defensive Sweep. If they try to move, they don't...and you punish them. If they don't move, you punish them. AND you get Full Attacks. A lethal combination at higher levels.
Barbarian gets you the ability to Rage once/day, a useful buff, and Extra Rage gets you two more of those. If you take Psychic Warrior and Lion's Pounce, you also gain access to Psychic Weapon, the last huge buff for Melee's...making an attack a Touch Attack. Combined with Power Attack and Charge, devastating.
Rage could be nice, I'll run it by my friend, see what he thinks.
Instead of Resolute, which gimps your combat ability, I suggest spending a feat or a warblade level on Moment of Perfect Mind, which subs concentration for your Will Save, and makes Concentration a class skill. Taking a Warblade level means you can refresh it in any round you aren't actually using it.
Unfortunately Tome of Battle is off limits so none of that. I'm not against dropping Resolute though.
Also, you want Shield Ward MUCH earlier in your build. A high Touch AC is a wonderful defense against many, many opponents.
I agree. doing this build for my friend I just realized how great those feats are!
Close Quarters Fighting is a great feat, but best left until later levels. The fact that it is not proactive (i.e.the DM determines when it's going to be useful) means its not as useful as Stand Still (which becomes part of a killing combination). If you aren't going to spend cash on Free Action, it's definitely worth it for the look on the DM's face when his Great Wyrm with the +73 Grapple modifier loses his grapple on you, or when the Kraken tries to wrap you up.
We seem to encounter a lot of grappling monsters and I really love causing that look on our DMs face for defeating his impossibly high grappling monsters! So it can be around mid levels.
Improved Shield Bash is a feat you should look very, very strongly at. Keepign your AC while being able to attack with your shield basically means you are a TWF with a better AC. A heavy Shield is actually the best one handed dmg weapon in the game (+1 Bashing = 2-12 dmg). Also, it allows you to get the AC from Defender Spikes because you are 'wielding' it as a weapon all the time, a stricture for the Defender effect.
Does that require Two Weapon fighting feats to wield effectively? If so, me personally, am against it. Too feat intensive. My friend might be into it though.
An Uber Shield is properly a Mithral H. Shield +5 of Bashing, with +5 Defender Spikes attached, and an Augment Stone of Missile Deflection for +5 AC against Ranged Attacks. With Shield Spec, that means you are getting +8 AC while fighting, +13 AC while not using it to fight, and +13/+18 against Ranged attacks, while ignoring the first ranged attack in a round. Sweet, yes?
Sweet indeed! We are starting at level 7 though.
My sig has a link to my Lockdown build, something for you to consider as far as tactics go. Ogrelock, also in the thread, abandons the Spec Tree for Uber Charger love (which you have worked in there).
Also, for boots? I heavily recommend Steadfast Boots instead of Boots of the Mountain King. The bonus against Overruns, etc is virtually the same, but the ability to be readied against any charge attack is PRICELESS.
==Aelryinth
Cool, I'll check out the link. I think I might have him stick with the Mountain King boots cause we also often encounter a lot of difficult terrain and it brings great joy to our DM to f us up that way so we cant charge.
So how about this:
- 1 Fighter 1 Power Attack, Dwarven Sub level Weapon Focus (all axes) (RoS)
- 2 Fighter 2 Shield Specialization (PHB II)
- 3 Fighter 3 Improved Bull Rush
- 4 Fighter 4 Shield Ward (PHB II), Str +1
- 5 Fighter 5
- 6 Fighter 6 Blind Fight, Combat Reflexes
- 7 Fighter 7
- 8 Fighter 8 Close-Quarters Fighting (CW), Str +1
- 9 Fighter 9 Shock Trooper (CW)
- 10 Fighter 10 Leap Attack (CA)
- 11 Fighter 11
- 12 Fighter 12 Armor Specialization (PHB II), Greater Resiliency (CW), Str +1
- 13 Fighter 13
- 14 Fighter 14 Stand Still (EPH)
- 15 Fighter 15 Defensive Sweep (PHB II)
- 16 Fighter 16 Overpowering Attack (PHB II), Str +1
- 17 Fighter 17
- 18 Fighter 18 Improved Sunder, Combat Brute (CW)
- 19 Fighter 19
- 20 Fighter 20 | , Str +1
Any suggestions on a 20th level feat?
I left Stand Still for level 14 because i think waiting until you can really make it affective with Defensive Sweep is ok.
Improved Sunder and Combat Brute are fine for later. They are more in there just for more options.
Any other suggestions? Please and thank you!
The prereq for Lions Pounce is Wild Shape ability. How do you get that from Barbarian? Not going to take Psychic Warrior.
The Lion Totem Barbarian variant from Complete Champion swaps Fast Movement for Pounce.
I'd lose Blindfight. If you need it, buy a magic item that grants Blindsense.
Stand Still is less effective without Thicket...it can only be used if someone triggers an AoO from movement. Good for monsters, useless against Tumbling unless you have counter-Tumble rules. It won't even work with a Readied action.
Note that Armor bonuses from Con for Deepwarden are restricted by the Dex limits of armor, too.
Robilar's Gambit, forgot to mention it. Basically, you get to attack something every time it attacks you. AoO charnel frenzy. If you've a good AC, and can get a bunch of AoO's, the best dmg dealing feat there is.
Not sure of what Greater Resilience is. Important?
I gave the UBer Shield as an example. I'm not advocating building a TWF shield build. One attack from it is a nice extra if you want/need it, and will do respectable dmg while letting you keep your AC. If you don't attack with it, then you get the Defender bonuses on the spikes...even better.
==Aelryinth
PsyWar 4/barb 1/frenzied berserker 1+/ftr 5, not nessescarily in that order
imprtant feats: Imperious command, instantaneous rage, intimidating rage, Up the walls, leap attack, battle jump, power attack. rest open for more defensive stuff.
strategy: interrupt people's actions by raging as an immediate action that scares them. on your turn run up a wall and jump down on your enemies, gaining a pretty nice Power attack bonus. you also have psionic powers and a lot of fighter feats to power the defensive side.
All the magic items I have seen that give blindsight are currently too expensive to work in and we encounter miss chances quite a bit. I would like to give it up and get a magic item but I dont think its doable at this level. he actually has to start at 6th, a level behind us, which is crap.
I think stand still will still see quite a bit of use. Our strategy is going to be for him to bull rush opponents into position so taht my rogue/fighter/ranger can flank and gain sneak attack, so if they try to move they will be provoking from both of us.
I will try to work Robilar's Gambit in there. I had that in there before but dropped it instead. Good 20th level feat? Or sooner?
So our game starts in 3 hours, the first 6 levels are almost completely locked in unless anyone has any other suggestions for straight fighter?
Thanks, my friend really appreciates it! He thinks I am doing all the work! Ha!
Greater Resiliency gives you an extra point of DR. I figure DR 2/- from Armor Specialization is good, DR 3/- is better. Could be dropped.
Combat Brute, unless it requires Imp Sunder, which I don't remember it doing
It does. It totally does.
You, sir, disappoint me.
Robilar's you should take as soon as you can. AoO attacks at full BAB are generally a death sentence for an enemy...especially if you have a good AC. You WANT them to try full attacking you.
Pierce Magical Concealment, the feat, will take care of most magical concealment miss chances, and you'd also need Mage SLayer to take it. It also sets you up to take PierCe Magical Protections, and really ruin a buffmeister's day.
All up to you, of course.
===Aelryinth
It does. It totally does.
You, sir, disappoint me.
If you plan to push strength, and you have any sort of multiplier running around, it's still worth it. Pierce magical protections is actually pretty terrible, as written. Pierce magical concealment's quite solid, I suppose. I'd probably just buy a crystal mask of visual insight, from the MiC. It negates all effects of concealment within 30 ft.
he is currently stuck with his first 6 levels as they are since we started playing. But there is always the option to retrain so BlindFight just might get swapped out.
any suggestions on the feat progressions for the next few levels?
He is a dwarf with the following stats: Str 17 (19 with gauntlets), Dex 12, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 10.
BTW, the best solution for difficult terrain is the ability to fly...which also has the nice effect of giving you a 60' move. Winged Boots ftw.
==Aelryinth
I'd guess Shock Trooper, Leap Attack and a Valorous Weapon. Suddenly you will start killing a whole lot of stuff on a charge.
BTW, the best solution for difficult terrain is the ability to fly...which also has the nice effect of giving you a 60' move. Winged Boots ftw.
==Aelryinth
Ooooooo! Nice!
What book is Valorous Weapon in?
10k and some piddling will saves for fly speed at 2x your normal move speed. No item slot. Cool but useless secondary ability.
To clarify, I would suggest pierce magical concealment + mask of visual insight + any extra vision modes you can get.
Ooooooo! Nice!
What book is Valorous Weapon in?
I think it was from the Unapproachable East.
==Aelryinth
Thought Valorous was the Champions book from FR. Leap Attack is from Unapproachable East...
==Aelryinth
Valorous:Unapproachable East page 55-56~
Leap Attack:Complete Adventurer
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050107a&page=3
Thought Valorous was the Champions book from FR. Leap Attack is from Unapproachable East...
==Aelryinth
i think you mean jump attack not leap attack but even then thats in RoF not Unapproachable east
Thought Valorous was the Champions book from FR. Leap Attack is from Unapproachable East...
==Aelryinth
Battle Jump is from UE, not Leap Attack. (It is a Taer "Regional" feat)
Keep the ideas flowing please!