Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 jameswilliamogle Mar 21, 2009 9:15:31	****THIS IS A THREAD THAT WILL BECOME A HANDBOOK**** OK, now that the catchy title is up, this is going to become a small mini-guide for crossbow wielders. I thought some brainstorming would be necessary before I finish it up. Input is greatly appreciated. Commentary So, you want to play a crossbow user, eh? Well, good for you! Crossbows are tricky to use effectively. Most of the stuff in 3.5 was aimed at Bow users, and excluded crossbows (either through oversight or on purpose). There are only three reasons to use crossbows instead of a bow: 1) Your Str is very low. Proper Bow usage requires high Str and Composite bows, as Bow damage generally isn't that good until one can afford fairly expensive magic Bows, and having low Str will mess up damage output. 2) You want to dual-wield crossbows, targeting multiple opponents. Crossbows can generate more attacks per round than Bows, as one can use the TWF tree and the Rapid Shot tree simultaneously. 3) You are sick of all the Legolas-style builds that are so typical of standard ranged weapon users, and are looking for something new. On That Which Has Come Before There's been a few Archery handbooks and threads written over the years, and its only proper I link them. The Archery Handbook - Eldariel wrote up this very nice handbook on the BG boards recently. It has a mini section on crossbows, too, and a quite extensive list of item enhancements. Its a good read (but, unfinished, at the time of this post). The Swift Hunter Handbook - Great advice for combining Scout and Ranger levels; simply use any of the TWF builds and you generate a slightly weaker version of a Swift Hunter (full-round attacks don't synergize well w/ Skirmish at all). Discussions - Hereis an extensive discussion about crossbowmen as compared to bow users. Many of the basics are listed there (why crossbows are better, weaker, and different than regular bow use). Races Anything that gives bonus feats is great. In general, anything with a bonus to Dex is going to work out nicely, too. Human - Skill points and a free feat means this is almost always a good race. But, we play humans in real life, so why play one in a game? Strongheart Halfling (PGtF) - Bonuses in Dex, to hit, and a bonus feat. Excellent race for a crossbow-based build! Whispergnome (RoS) - Excellent bonuses in stealth-based builds. Catfolk (RotW) - While the +1 LA isn't that good, the bonus to Dexterity is quite nice, particularly if you can use LA buyoff. Dwarves (PHB) - No bonus to Dex, but stonecunning can act as a poor man's substitute for trapfinding, if you're so inclined to fill that role. Templates: Any template that boosts Dex is great; even better are templates that do this while granting SLAs. Dark (ToM) - Excellent stealth capabilities! Phrenic / Half-Fey / Half-Vampire (various) - Great stat bonuses and SLAs; combines very well with Magic in the Blood (PGtF). Skills I'm going to try not to get too specific here, but instead just talk about skill tricks. Hide, Move Silently, UMD, Bluff, Intimidate, Jump, Tumble, all are great options. Classes Any class that gains bonus feats will ease the burdens of using crossbows. In addition, Dex synergy will work well with any class that adds sneak attack or Skirmish. Ranger - Bonus feats, the Swift Hunter option, and some decent spells make this a nice choice. Fighter - The feat requirements on the crossbow user are very, very stiff, and the bonus feats from Fighter really help out here. Targeteer - Dragon (310, p38) variant that adds Dex to damage for Critical Hit-affected creatures (I don't know the details about this). Rogue - You get free proficiency in Hand Crossbows, and Sneak Attack. Add to that enough skill points per level to fill multiple roles, and you have a truly cool, if not powerful, crossbow user. Cleric - Ranged Clerics work just as well with crossbows as with bows, but there's not much reason to use crossbows instead of bows. ToB - Swordsage is not as synergistic as one might think, but its cool to get in Shadowblade later. Spellthief - Don't overlook this option. Usually, characters use a 1 level dip for Master Spellthief, but even straight-classed, the spell selection is better than any other reduced casting class Factotum - These are usually a bit MAD, but using crossbows instead of bows allows one to dump Str a bit. Still, not that great of an option. Swashbuckler - The 3rd level lets you add Int to damage w/ Light Weapons (which may include the Hand Crossbow - talk to your DM). Totemist - If you can use Girillon Claws to use more crossbows, its totally worth it. Otherwise, I'm not sure it adds enough to crossbow usage.
#2 jameswilliamogle Mar 21, 2009 9:16:10	Feats Feats for Multiple Attacks Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting - All self-explanatory, really. Get iterative attacks (up to 3), on your off-hand weapon. You still need a way to reload it as a free action, though. Rapid Shot - You can't get Manyshot, but Rapid Shot does open up another attack on your main hand. Two-Weapon Rend - Oddly enough, applies to multiple crossbow usage! A great way to get more damage out of your crossbows. Feats for Precision Point Blank Shot - Useful as a prereq feat, and not much else. Precise Shot - If you party with a group, its worth taking this feat to negate a -4 to attack just about all the time. Also useful as a prereq feat. Improved Precise Shot Woodland Archery (RotW) - Allows several tactical feats that work quite well with ranged combat Feats to Help with Some of the Nuances of Crossbow Use Hand Crossbow Focus (DotU) - its Weapon Focus + Rapid Reload for Hand Crossbows all in one feat! Good investment for a single feat. Rapid Reload - allows one to reload the crossbow as a free action. Fortunately, there's better feats, and some items that do this, so its not necessary in every build. Quickdraw - draw your weapons as a free action. Quite a cool "feel". Also significant for quite a few builds. Crossbow Sniper - Excellent feat that increases precision-based damage range to 60' (which is a highly significant increase). Also increases damage based on Dex, which is quite nice. Penetrating Shot - So, this feat can open up some options, allowing you to hit everyone in a 60' line. You only get to add extra damage to one target, BUT, you can still apply status-effects to everyone in the line. Look to the item section for what some of those may be. Other Class-specific Feats of Interest Craven (forget - a faerunian sourcebook) - Bonus to sneak attack damage based on level. Even with just a few level dips into a Rogue, makes the Sneak Attack awesome. Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Specialization, Ranged Weapon Mastery - Damage output kind of sucks on a crossbow, typically, and this helps out, but generally not worth it. But, if you have a limited bookset, then it might be worth it. Daring Warrior, Swift Hunter (CScoundrel) - These all add various aspects for some specific builds with class combinations. Swift Hunter is arguably the best of these, and there's an entire handbook just for those, so I won't write more on it. Versatile Combatant (DotU) - Essentially means that you don't prove AoOs when using a hand crossbow. Also acts like TWF when wielding a Rapier and Hand Crossbow (but does not stack w/ TWF, unfortunately). DMs may rule that the former ability only works when using a rapier and hand crossbow simultaneously, but its not really worded that way. Improved Initiative - If there's a source for Sneak Attack damage in your build, going first is better than going last. Deadeye Shot - You get to ready a standard action, an ally attacks, and your opponent is flat-footed on your attack. Not that exciting in and of itself, but combine it with Penetrating Shot, it works very nicely! Feats For an Assasination Build Poison Expert, Poison Master, Master of Poisons (CScoundrel and DotU) - basically increases the DC of poisons you use. Ability Focus (Death Attack) - Just put this in b/c I didn't want a section w/ just 1 feat :P.
#3 jameswilliamogle Mar 21, 2009 9:16:40	reserved for stuff Items
#4 jameswilliamogle Mar 21, 2009 9:17:18	reserved for stuff spells
#5 jameswilliamogle Mar 21, 2009 9:17:49	reserved for stuff builds
#6 jameswilliamogle Mar 21, 2009 9:18:20	Tricks Aptitude Weapons - If you can plan on getting these, you can dream up the most wacked out combinations out there. Stunning Fist at range w/ a crossbow, Lightening Mace for extra attacks w/ a crosbow at range, etc. Combine Penetrating Shot with Stunning Fist, for example, and stun everyone in a 60' line (which is tough to do with a non-caster)! Some stuff detailed here. Reloading - Unfortunately, you need a free hand to reload a crossbow. There's a few tricks around this, though: I'm using 2 Gloves of Storing which allow me to store and remove my crossbows from them as a free actions allowing me to always have a hand free and still fire and then Hand crossbow focus for free action reload. Other methods are the spare hand belt gives you a free hand to reload and Gloves of the Master Strategist which do the same thing as gloves of storing and then some. Also, and this requires a house-rule, but your DM might be kind enough to let Quickdraw + Rapid Reload (or Hand Crossbow focus) to count as being able to reload as a free action. Even if they don't let that happen directly, you should be able to attach leather straps to the back of your crossbow, which you then attach to some part of your body (neck, belt, etc). You can then simply drop the crossbow after your first volley, reload one (as a free action), Quickdraw the next one, and repeat. If your DM isn't cool with the visual, then you have to use the tricks posted by Obtusehobbit: when in doubt, always ask beforehand.
#7 jameswilliamogle Mar 21, 2009 9:18:50	OK, that is the end.
#8 chibishuffle Mar 21, 2009 9:26:38	In terms of races I have played a catfolk fighter rogue who uses a heavy repeating crossbow. I have found that the impressive dex boost to be really useful. LA buy off made me happy as you can imagine, being a non caster having a small LA is more acceptable IMO.
#9 CantripN Mar 21, 2009 9:55:56	Aptitude is a must have here, no? Use Catapults, for all I care.
#10 jameswilliamogle Mar 21, 2009 10:10:37	Aptitude is a must have here, no? Use Catapults, for all I care. Yes; I have to reread it, though. Where is it?
#11 CantripN Mar 21, 2009 10:11:14	Tome of Battle + Aptitude. I'm sure you can find more uses.
#12 tshern Mar 21, 2009 10:13:04	Ah, I really want to see how this works out, because I am partial for crossbows, but too lazy to do all the research. Good luck with this, I try to come up with some comments and help when you get this rolling. Even more rolling, that is.
#13 tshern Mar 21, 2009 10:15:09	Speaking of Aptitude enchantment, JaronK made an excellent build that used two Aptitude Splitting Great crossbows in conjunction with Hand crossbow focus and such. I suggest you should include that build here somewhere or give a link to it.
#14 jameswilliamogle Mar 21, 2009 10:21:23	Ah, I really want to see how this works out, because I am partial for crossbows, but too lazy to do all the research. Good luck with this, I try to come up with some comments and help when you get this rolling. Even more rolling, that is. Well, cool. This one is going to go up slower than the others; I'm sick and its hard to focus through the haze of cough medicine.
#15 tshern Mar 21, 2009 10:24:07	Well, cool. This one is going to go up slower than the others; I'm sick and its hard to focus through the haze of cough medicine. Well, the board is not going anywhere. I hope. Hope you heal quick, being sick is no leisure cruise!
#16 cole_caecus Mar 21, 2009 10:57:16	Also, there is a good item that you could use. It is called the gnome crossbow sight. Crossbow Sight, Gnome: This device comes in two parts: an eyepiece that attaches to the stock of a crossbow and a sight that is affixed to the end of the weapon. When calibrated properly, the sights allow the user to focus more carefully on a target. The user treats targets as if they were two range increments closer. It has no effect on targets within the first two range increments. Its a pretty good item for a crossbow.
#17 rymosrac Mar 21, 2009 11:26:58	The aforementioned aptitude weapon + hand crossbow focus is probably the biggest single sneaky trick we've got going for crossbows - definitely something that should be mentioned. Splitting, of course - though to build on that one I'm extremely fond of combining a splitting crossbow with the arrowsplit spell also from Champions of Ruin and a lesser metamagic rod of maximize. Turn your single bolt into ten! Does cost you the standard action to cast the spell, which is why I really like this trick best on a factotum with FoI.
#18 Omen_of_Peace Mar 21, 2009 11:50:49	The Crossbow Sight is in the A&E Guide IIRC. There's a Fighter variant in a Dragon Magazine that gives free proficiency with a ranged exotic weapon. Either that variant or an associated feat lets you add Dex (or is it half-Dex ? In that case it's not so good) to damage within 30ft - it's precision damage.
#19 jameswilliamogle Mar 21, 2009 12:04:29	Aptitude Crossbow + Penetrating Shot + Stunning Fist + Freezing the Life Blood = Everyone in a 60' line is paralyzed :P.
#20 anders_rasmussen Mar 21, 2009 12:08:06	See this for more on crossbows - just in case you havn't allready: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=642.0 Anders
#21 jameswilliamogle Mar 21, 2009 12:25:38	Hrmmm I had no idea. I probably woudn't have started this if I had known... Maybe I'll finish it up anyways, as the feat section for that one is a bit light; I'll reference it of course.
#22 themistokles Mar 21, 2009 14:13:21	Good idea for a mini-guide! In case you wish to collect ideas and links, this older threadbrought out some "gun-style" ideas.
#23 carnivore Mar 21, 2009 15:00:07	for the link .... and to see how this works out :D
#24 sofawall Mar 21, 2009 16:20:12	You know, when I saw the line THIS IS A THREAD WHICH WILL BECOME A HANDBOOK I immediately thought of the Choker Handbook.
#25 obtusehobbit Mar 21, 2009 19:36:49	Personaly I think the way to optimize a crosbow character is similar to a how you optimize a two-weapon fighter, use several small damage modifiers, divide across mutliple attacks. To that effect here is a crossbow focused character I have been working on Show Race: Human Stats: Str 10 Dex 18 Con 14 Int 12 Wis 10 Chr 10 Build Progression: lvl Class Feats 1) Feat Rogue 1: Precise Shot, Point Blank Shot, Able Learner 2) Feat Rogue 2: Hand Crossbow Focus 3) Urban Ranger 1: Urban Tracking, Knowledge Devotion 4) Fighter 1: Crossbow Sniper ACF: Armoured Mage 5) Urban Ranger 2: Rapid Shot 6) Exotic Weapons Master 1: Two-weapon Fighting 7) Fighter 2: Improved Two-weapon Fighting 8) Fighter 3: 9) Fighter 4: Weapon Specilazation (Hand Crossbow), Ranged Weapon Mastery 10) Chameleon 1: 11) Chameleon 2: Chameleon Feat 12) Chameleon 3: Manyshot 13) Chameleon 4: 14) Chameleon 5: 15) Chameleon 6: Greater Two-Weapon Fighting 16) Chameleon 7: 17) Chameleon 8: 18) Chameleon 9: Improved Rapid Shot 19) Chameleon 10: 20) Exotic Weapons Master 2: Equipment used for bellow: 2 +5 Hand crossbows of Splitting +5 Manual of Gainful Exercise 2 gloves of Storing (For Reloading) +6 dex item Stats at level 20 Str 10 Dex 34 Con 14 Int 12 Wis 10 Chr 10 Stats with Chamelon bonus Str 10 Dex 40 Int 12 Wis 10 Chr 10 with +6 to casting stat The concept is to get alot of attacks with strong to hit combined several small damage bonuses to ramp up damage. Extra Attacks sources are Two-Weapon Fighting tree Rapid Shot tree Splitting Enchantment Damage sources are Weapon Specialization Ranged Weapon Master Knowledge Devotion Crossbow Sniper Martial Focus The bellow calculation assume +3 bonus from Knowledge Devotion To hit bonus: +16 (BaB) + 1 (Hand Crossbow Focus) + 3 (Knowledge Devotion) + 2 (Ranged Weapon Mastery) + 15 (Dex) +4 (Martial Focus) +5 (Weapon) = +46 Number of Attacks: +4 (BaB) + 3 (Two Weapon Fighting Tree) + 1 (Rapid Shot) = 8 x 2 (Splitting) = 16 Attacks To hit penalties: -1 (Two-Weapon Fighting) Netting you full attack of +45/+45/+45/+45/+45/+45/+40/+40/+40/+40/+35/+35/+35/+35/+30/+30 Damage is 1d4+23 per attack, if all attacks hit average damage = 408 Damage: +5 (Weapon) + 3 (Knowledge Devotion) + 2 (Weapon Specialization) + 2 (Ranged Weapon Mastery) + 4 (Martial Focus) + 7 (Crossbow Sniper) = 23 All of the above is without any buffing from spells, and minimal equipment Other things to note Reasonable Skills with Average 6 skill points per level with no cross-class penalty Abilty to ignore arcane spell failure for 5th or lower level spell Chameleon Spell casting
#26 sofawall Mar 22, 2009 0:05:01	Netting you full attack of +45/+45/+45/+45/+45/+45/+40/+40/+40/+40/+35/+35/+35/+35/+30/+30
#27 jameswilliamogle Mar 22, 2009 8:59:46	Just want to point out that Improved Rapid Shot does not do what you think... Its not an extra attack, but rather reduced the penalty from Rapid Shot to -0. Which is lame.
#28 obtusehobbit Mar 22, 2009 9:07:00	Just want to point out that Improved Rapid Shot does not do what you think... Its not an extra attack, but rather reduced the penalty from Rapid Shot to -0. Which is lame. I know, I am only gaining one extra attack off of rapid shot, but I took it to effective gain +2 to hit for all attacks (see Number of attacks). The build gets 8 attacks per round and the uses splitting to double the number of arrows fired. Number of Attacks: +4 (BaB) + 3 (Two Weapon Fighting Tree) + 1 (Rapid Shot) = 8 x 2 (Splitting) = 16
#29 jameswilliamogle Mar 22, 2009 9:53:45	Ah, I see... The "Rapid Shot tree" line threw me off. I think its lame b/c it requires 2 feats which could've been GWF and GWSpec, or Ranged Melee Mastery and something else (Penetrating Shot maybe).
#30 obtusehobbit Mar 22, 2009 10:10:50	Ah, I see... The "Rapid Shot tree" line threw me off. I think its lame b/c it requires 2 feats which could've been GWF and GWSpec, or Ranged Melee Mastery and something else (Penetrating Shot maybe). Yeah it does take two feats but i don't have the fighter levels for Greater Weapon Focus, and Greater Weapon Specialization. I already have Ranged Weapon Mastery. Also still have the floating Chameleon feat for Penetrating Shot. Feel free to switch them out if you use the build, but I like the +2 to hit with all the attacks the build gets.
#31 rymosrac Mar 22, 2009 10:32:59	Yeah, rapid shot is definitely worth a feat once you've got splitting for the 2 extra effective attacks. And once you've got RS, IRS for an effective +2 to all attacks is certainly worth considering. I've honestly never been able to take GWF or GWS very seriously - especially with Melee / Ranged Weapon Mastery available.
#32 Balthanon Mar 22, 2009 15:40:48	I kind of like the great crossbow (Races of Stone) combined with a bit of Tome of Battle, so long as your DM allows the quick loading property and Rapid Reload to stack. With Deepwood Sniper making your attacks keen and bumping your crit multiplier plus the 2d8 base damage, you can create an interesting crit based ranged attacker. Throw in Strongarm Bracers and Targeteer (if Dragon variants are allowed) and you're doing 3d8 + Dex damage on each shot, which can be decent. Even more so when you're multiplying that by x3 or x4 (depending on your investment in Deepwood Sniper). Warblade for Blood in the Water to take advantage of the 15-20 crit range and Martial Study (cloak of deception) for sniping and you have quite a few options available to you. If you want to go with a more standard version of the crossbow user, I think it beats something like the repeating heavy crossbow hands down.
#33 phoenix00 Mar 22, 2009 19:50:33	Cheesy as hell and requires a 3 feat investment but Shiba Protector adds Wisdom to their attack and damage rolls.
#34 phoenix00 Mar 22, 2009 19:55:06	Splitting, of course - though to build on that one I'm extremely fond of combining a splitting crossbow with the arrowsplit spell also from Champions of Ruin and a lesser metamagic rod of maximize. Turn your single bolt into ten! Does cost you the standard action to cast the spell, which is why I really like this trick best on a factotum with FoI. Reread your Champions of Ruin baby. Arrowsplit is a swift action spell not a standard action spell. Thus anybody that can cast Arrowsplit (such as an archivist) or use a wand of UMD can use that mighty little spell. Requires a touch action. ---- For example this build I will name the "machine gunner." Now combine Hierophant+Archivist+Chain Spell+Maximize and you can cast Arrowsplit on a total of 20 arrows. (You don't need 20 arrows but you could.). Each arrow you use will split into 5 arrows due to arrowsplit, if these combine with the splitting weapon enchantment you will get 10 arrows for every arrow shot. Now assuming divine power up. You got 20 bab 4 Attacks 1 Haste 3 from Two Weapon Fighting Tree (you didn't take all three feats did you, you only need the first since there is some gloves in the MIC that gives you ITWF, and heroics will give you GTWF). 1 from Rapid Shot= 9 base bolts fired 9 base bolts*10 "split bolts" fired=90 bolts in an avalanche of death.
#35 true_shinken Mar 22, 2009 20:26:26	Think you might actually need ITWF (or just use heroics for it too) since gloves of storing (or rather gloves of the master strategist) are probably the most realiable and cheap way to quickly reload crossbows
#36 phoenix00 Mar 22, 2009 20:27:29	A similar build to above is further abusing the idea but using two characters or one with leadership. Character 1) Is an archivist/ruby knight vindicator/hierophant Use Divine Impetus to get multiple swift actions per round. Character 2) Is a factotum with Greater Many Shot. Character 1 delays his actions till right before Character 2 actions. He casts his spells on all the bolts in Character 2 quiver. Giving the benefits to 20 bolts Character 1 has (or 40 arrows if he has enough turn attempts to cast the spells twice.) He then casts these spells. Maximize Arrowsplit for 5 addition bolts from every 1 bolt shot. Bloodfreeze: Arrow/Bolt does extra 2d6 damage cold damage and paralyzes target Doublestrike Arrow: One arrow or bolt strikes two targets within 30 feet of each other. Darkflame Arrow: Masterwork arrow or bolt deals normal damage plus 2d6 damage each round for 3 rounds. Spellslayer Arrow: Each Arrow or Bolt does 1d4 damage per every active spell on the target. Woodwisp Arrow: Enables a masterwork arrow or bolt to pass through wood. Thus if you are are in a "wooden sphere" you can fire all those bolts at everyone while benefiting from total cover. Use magic to move the sphere and see through it and you are very hard to attack. Sadly a 3rd level spell still puts a damper on your fun (wind wall). But I guess that is what you have the archivist for. Sometimes you just need a dispel magic spell.
#37 phoenix00 Mar 22, 2009 20:29:13	Think you might actually need ITWF (or just use heroics for it too) since gloves of storing (or rather gloves of the master strategist) are probably the most realiable and cheap way to quickly reload crossbows Gloves of the Balanced Hand gives you ITWF if you have TWF or TWF if you don't have it. Small price of 8,000 gp. You can always add it to any existing gloves you have for a small additional fee.
#38 true_shinken Mar 22, 2009 20:43:27	Gloves of the Balanced Hand gives you ITWF if you have TWF or TWF if you don't have it. Small price of 8,000 gp. You can always add it to any existing gloves you have for a small additional fee. Oh, I always forget this rule about combining magical items since I don't play with it ^^ But yeah, you are right.
#39 rymosrac Mar 22, 2009 20:44:04	I kind of like the great crossbow (Races of Stone) combined with a bit of Tome of Battle, so long as your DM allows the quick loading property and Rapid Reload to stack. This is just as expensive and not quite as good as Hand Crossbow Focus + Aptitude Great Crossbow. Still, not bad. Reread your Champions of Ruin baby. Arrowsplit is a swift action spell not a standard action spell. Thus anybody that can cast Arrowsplit (such as an archivist) or use a wand of UMD can use that mighty little spell. Requires a touch action. Dang, how'd I manage to forget that? Not six months ago I introduced our party's Factotum / Chameleon to the very trick. Thanks for the catch. As an addition, I'd like to bring up Shatterbolts from the Dragon Mag Compendium. 75gp a pop, and prone to breaking if you get hit (this is why you pack an "efficient quiver" or whatever we're calling it these days), but they give you an 18-10x3 crit - which is frankly preposterous. Plus they're made out of glass and fragment when they hit people - stylish as heck.
#40 obtusehobbit Mar 22, 2009 20:47:30	Can i get info on arrow split spell (I don't currently have my copy of champions of ruin). I would like to added it to my Chameleon build.
#41 Balthanon Mar 22, 2009 21:23:26	This is just as expensive and not quite as good as Hand Crossbow Focus + Aptitude Great Crossbow. Still, not bad. That's assuming your DM allows you to apply weapon specific feats like Hand Crossbow Focus or Lightning Mace to other weapons with aptitude-- there's definitely some question about whether that works. Both do require a bit of DM interpretation though.
#42 axator Mar 23, 2009 19:55:22	How exactly do you get around the fact it still takes two hands to reload a hand crossbow, rapid reload/ Hand Crossbow Focus or not? I'd really like to know, because I'm dying to try out a build TWF'ing Hand Crossbows.
#43 Balthanon Mar 23, 2009 20:31:22	The spare hand belt from Magic Item Compendium works, though you might need to have some infusions placed in it.
#44 obtusehobbit Mar 23, 2009 21:11:08	How exactly do you get around the fact it still takes two hands to reload a hand crossbow, rapid reload/ Hand Crossbow Focus or not? I'd really like to know, because I'm dying to try out a build TWF'ing Hand Crossbows. I'm using 2 Gloves of Storing which allow me to store and remove my crossbows from them as a free actions allowing me to always have a hand free and still fire and then Hand crossbow focus for free action reload. Other methods are the spare hand belt gives you a free hand to reload and Gloves of the Master Strategist which do the same thing as gloves of storing and then some.
#45 BloodDragon Mar 23, 2009 21:57:29	Charater 1)archivist/ruby knight vindicator/hierophant Character 2) Is a factotum with Greater Many Shot. Ton of arrow enchants Wooden Sphere protection Stormming any beaches lately Phoenix? Show
#46 obtusehobbit Mar 24, 2009 10:01:57	For people who want to be a walking Balista I put this build together. Great Crossbow user Race: Jungle Dwarf Stats: Str 14 Dex 10 Con 16 Int 10 Wis 18 Chr 6 Build Progression lvl Class Feats 1) Ranger 1: Urban Tracking, Point Blank Shot ACF: Urban Tracker 2) Psychic Warrior 1: Zen Archery 3) Ranger 2: Rapid Shot, EWP (Great Crossbow) 4) Psychic Warrior 2: Rapid Reload 5) Ranger 3: Endurance 6) Ranger 4: Precise Shot, Manyshot ACF: Champion of the Wild 7) Deep Warden 1: Track 8) Deep Warden 2: 9) Warmind 1: Weapon Focus (Great Crossbow) 10) Exotic Weapon Master 1: 11) Warmind 2: 12) Warmind 3: Improved Rapid Shot 13) Warmind 4: 14) Warmind 5: 15) Warmind 6: Practised Manifester (Warmind) 16) Warmind 8: 17) Warmind 9: 18) Warmind 10: Extend Power 19) Fighter 1: Improved Precise Shot 20) Fighter 2: Penetrating Shot The idea behind this build is to focus on the high base damage of a Greatcrossbow and size increases to up damage. The build does assume one roung of buffing befor combat and ability to manifest expasion when you wake up. DM Note: This build is assuming that by using both rapid reload and quick reloading you can reload as a free action. Equipment: +6 wis item +5 Tome of Understanding Strong Arm Bracers +5 Quick Reloading Great Crossbow of Splitting PP pool: 125 Key Powers. Extend Augmented Expansion Cost: 11pp Benifit: 2 size increase w/28hr duration Augmented Preccognition, Offensive Cost: 13 pp Benifit: +5 insight bonus to hit w/14 min duration Augmented Preciense, Offensive Cost: 13pp Benifit: Swift action for +6 indight bonus to damage w/14 min duration Stats At 20: Str 14 Dex 10 Con 16 Int 10 Wis 28 Chr 6 With Items: Str 14 Dex 10 Con 16 Int 10 Wis 34 Chr 6 With Expansion Str 18 Dex 6 Con 16 Int 10 Wis 34 Chr 6 To hit: +19 (Bab) +1 (Feats) + 12 (Wis) +5 (weapon) +5 (Preccognition, Offensive) -2 (Size) = +40 Attack Routine is: +40/+40/+40/+40/+35/+35/+30/+30/+25/+25 Size increases to Weapon: +1 (Strongarm Bracers) +2 (Expansion) = +3 So weapon damage is: 2d8 (base) to 3d8 (size) to 4d8 (size) to 6d8 (size) Damage per shot with Modifiers = 6d8+11 Average damage if all attacks hit= 380 damage I'm pretty sure that there are better powers to manifest during the buffing round, but I' m not going to spend the time to find them.
#47 shanizar Mar 24, 2009 10:46:29	I've played one crossbow user. He used skirmish and had Ardent for dimension hop. He was "hopping" 10' as a minor action and firing off full attacks with his crossbow. Was fun...
#48 obtusehobbit Mar 25, 2009 21:23:08	because I love Crossbows Also I have some musings. I been thinking and I think that there are there are three things that I like about crossbow and there combat options. 1) You can get a lot of attack (on par with monk throwing builds) 2) Build are less MAD since you don't need strength for damage. 3) Higher Base Damage (Most useful at low level, but can be used at High levels) There are also three things I don't like about crossbows 1) Builds are feat intensive 2) Not as many option to optimize 3) Some builds use questionable rules and can be shut down by the DM.