This is the first in what will, hopefully, become a series of posts providing enemies for an optimized party; this particular encounter should match up well against even well optimized PCs. It uses only the Core books and Tome of Battle.
If anyone has formatting suggestions, please send me a PM with them; I'm not at all good with this opening stuff, and I'd like to replace it with something cleaner, crisper, and neater. Generally, better looking, since I do want to turn this into a series.
Anyway, babbling aside, here's the good stuff.
The Crusader, with its automatic reloading of martial maneuvers, has incredible stamina in a fight; the healing available in Devoted Spirit only enhances this. Naturally, any increase in maneuvers used will only enhance the advantage granted by this reloading method, but extra standard actions are difficult for a PC to find.
The universal truth of D&D, Evil Always Wins, holds true even here.
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I don't want to risk a mod coming and smacking me, and these stats aren't too hard to derive anyway. I'm giving just enough to judge the threat potential of this monster.
CR 6
Choker Crusader 4
Hit Dice: 3d8+4d10+21 (60 hp)
Initiative: +7
Armor Class: 22 (+1 Size, +3 Dex, +4 Natural, +4 Armor)
Attack: +14 Melee (1d10+9)
Saves: Fort +8, Ref +7, Will +5
Abilities: Str 22, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 7, Wis 12, Cha 4 (+1 to Str at 4 HD)
Feats: Improved Initiative (b), Extra Granted Maneuver, Stone Power, Combat Reflexes
Equipment: Chain Shirt, Masterwork Greatsword
I don't want to risk a mod coming and smacking me, and these stats aren't too hard to derive anyway. I'm giving just enough to judge the threat potential of this monster.
CR 6
Choker Crusader 4
Hit Dice: 3d8+4d10+21 (60 hp)
Initiative: +7
Armor Class: 22 (+1 Size, +3 Dex, +4 Natural, +4 Armor)
Attack: +14 Melee (1d10+9)
Saves: Fort +8, Ref +7, Will +5
Abilities: Str 22, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 7, Wis 12, Cha 4 (+1 to Str at 4 HD)
Feats: Improved Initiative (b), Extra Granted Maneuver, Stone Power, Combat Reflexes
Equipment: Chain Shirt, Masterwork Greatsword
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CR 14
Advanced Choker Crusader 10
Hit Dice: 8d8+10d10+72 (158 hp)
Initiative: +6
Armor Class: 24 (+2 Dex, +8 Natural, +4 Armor)
Attack: +25 Melee (2d4+12)
Full Attack: +25/+20/+15/+10 Melee (2d4+12)
Reach: 15'
Saves: Fort +14, Ref +11, Will +10
Abilities: Str 26, Dex 14, Con 18, Int 8, Wis 14, Cha 4 (+1 to Wis at 4 HD, +1 Str at 8 HD, +2 Con at 12 and 16 HD)
Feats: Improved Initiative (b), Combat Reflexes, Stone Power, Combat Focus, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Spiked Chain), Combat Stability, Extra Smiting, Combat Vigor
Equipment: Mithril Full Plate, Masterwork Spiked Chain, Tooth of Dahlver-Nar (Savnok)
The Tooth of Dahlver-Nar is required to avoid a 15 foot movement speed; it can be replaced by Boots of Striding and Springing if Tome of Magic is not available.
CR 14
Advanced Choker Crusader 10
Hit Dice: 8d8+10d10+72 (158 hp)
Initiative: +6
Armor Class: 24 (+2 Dex, +8 Natural, +4 Armor)
Attack: +25 Melee (2d4+12)
Full Attack: +25/+20/+15/+10 Melee (2d4+12)
Reach: 15'
Saves: Fort +14, Ref +11, Will +10
Abilities: Str 26, Dex 14, Con 18, Int 8, Wis 14, Cha 4 (+1 to Wis at 4 HD, +1 Str at 8 HD, +2 Con at 12 and 16 HD)
Feats: Improved Initiative (b), Combat Reflexes, Stone Power, Combat Focus, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Spiked Chain), Combat Stability, Extra Smiting, Combat Vigor
Equipment: Mithril Full Plate, Masterwork Spiked Chain, Tooth of Dahlver-Nar (Savnok)
The Tooth of Dahlver-Nar is required to avoid a 15 foot movement speed; it can be replaced by Boots of Striding and Springing if Tome of Magic is not available.
:evillaugh :D
Must....get...TOB...
JaronK
But the larger issue is that a Gish could in fact pull this same trick with polymorph, and that's going to be a problem...
JaronK
One more reason to always pick Crusader in a non-gestalt gish build.*
*Warblade is pretty good gestalted with wizard too.
The battle PhoenixInferno is referring to is a case in point--three "CR 16"s and they were tearing apart 6 or so level 20's. They didn't have 9th level spells available like a standard party might, but it was still pretty brutal.
The battle PhoenixInferno is referring to is a case in point--three "CR 16"s and they were tearing apart 6 or so level 20's. They didn't have 9th level spells available like a standard party might, but it was still pretty brutal.
Could a summary of that battle be posted? Or perhaps I could be directed to an existing thread covering this discussion?:P
Could a summary of that battle be posted? Or perhaps I could be directed to an existing thread covering this discussion?:P
I can do better than a summary of that battle-- it's taking place in an online adventure that I'm running, so you can review the entire thing. It's part of the [THREAD=661698]Assault upon the Abyssal Fortress[/THREAD] game that I'm running. It starts on page 4 and runs to page 11 and isn't over yet-- the PCs have just managed to take down the first of the three elementals they're facing.
[POST=12370757]This post[/POST] has the one that they managed to eliminate-- if not kill.
I believe this goes in the oft-overlooked BBEG thread.
While I like that thread, and have posted numberous things in it (and need to finish up some of my postings), this isn't a BBEG. It's just a really deadly encounter.
Balthanon: Choker only has 3 HD, so it's only adding a single initiator level to the mix--dropping White Raven Tactics/Revitalizing Strike for a second level maneuver would completely remove the monster HD from the maneuver equasion. The deadly part here is two standard actions.
Balthanon: Choker only has 3 HD, so it's only adding a single initiator level to the mix--dropping White Raven Tactics/Revitalizing Strike for a second level maneuver would completely remove the monster HD from the maneuver equasion. The deadly part here is two standard actions.
I'm aware, that's why I said this is taking advantage of another part of the maneuver system. Namely that one of the balancing points of maneuvers are that generally only one strike, a move action, and maybe a boost can be initiated in a given round.
I was mainly pointing out that when it comes to Tome of Battle, the standard CR guidelines don't quite account for everything.
2 standard actions? how?
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/choker.htm
Quickness (Su)
Although not particularly dexterous, a choker is supernaturally quick. It can take an extra standard action or move action during its turn each round.
I ran an advanced pseudonatural shadow choker warlock 6 (13 HD total) against my party, and the battle was a blast. Summon swarm could be concentrated on using one of his standard actions, while the other could be charming the party or popping out a bunch of earthen grasps. Gave him quicken and maximize SLA for eldritch blast, and he fired off 54 damage worth of eldritch blast in one round (3d6 maximized thrice---1 quickened, 2 normal actions). Not to mention a +17 grapple check.
CR 14 version posted; not really happy with the feat choices, but 15 foot reach is a lot of fun with Combat Reflexes.
Eldrich Blast is limited to one a round, and unlike Crusader maneuvers, spells will run out. Chokers are an ideal monster to make more badass, but pure Warlock isn't the best way to do it.
Warlocks don't get spells; they get invocations, which have unlimited uses, like spell-likes.
What I mean by this, is assuming you have extra granted maneuver, a lower lvl crusader would have 5(3). So first round of combat you have 3 maneuvers available to use, and 2 withheld. You are granted another maneuver at the end of round 1 and 2. At the end of round 3 you have no more withheld and you refresh your pool. So basically you have 5 maneuvers to use every 3 rounds. I guess the advantage of a choker is that a normal crusader would have to fit in a couple boosts/counters to make use of them all. While a choker could go all strikes.
Warlocks don't get spells; they get invocations, which have unlimited uses, like spell-likes.
I had been answering both the "Warlock Chokers are awesome" (which they are, with proper invocations selected) and "Wizard Chokers are awesome" (which they are, IF high enough level to avoid burnout).
I have a question. As far as my understanding of the crusader recover mechanics, your maneuver pool would be refreshed every 3-4 rounds depending on if you have extra granted maneuver. So I don't see how having an extra standard action is that huge, you will be able to burn through your attacks a bit faster in the first round or two, but you won't refresh them any faster.
What I mean by this, is assuming you have extra granted maneuver, a lower lvl crusader would have 5(3). So first round of combat you have 3 maneuvers available to use, and 2 withheld. You are granted another maneuver at the end of round 1 and 2. At the end of round 3 you have no more withheld and you refresh your pool. So basically you have 5 maneuvers to use every 3 rounds. I guess the advantage of a choker is that a normal crusader would have to fit in a couple boosts/counters to make use of them all. While a choker could go all strikes.
Choker Crusader 4, at CR 6, is what I deem the most effective level for just that reason--there aren't that many boosts available so early, only really White Raven Tactics being appealing enough to take, among the Crusader's available choices. I suppose a Choker Swordsage could be effective as well, being able to still attack in a round where he uses a full round action to refresh, but the Swordsage lacks the sheer durability of the Crusader that makes this enemy so horrible--not only can he spam abilities without burning out, but he'll most likely survive to benefit from that second cycle.
Plus, Polymorph has not yet made an appearance, and 4th level spells have the first true Save or Die effects. Nor do the players really have the resources to pump their DCs high enough to be beyond the Devoted Choker's ability to resist, since its saves are both respectable and well balanced.
In summary, though, you nailed it: the Choker can use strikes exclusively. Crusaders have few boosts at low levels, so more strikes = more total maneuvers used. Since you're burning through them all, which recovery method the DM uses won't matter, either. That has to count for something.
I'm playing a choker in my next campaign :-)
No level adjustment I'm afraid-- pretty much for precisely this reason.
I'm playing a choker in my next campaign :-)
Choker is one of those creatures that just aren't viable for PCs in any game--you'll either be so far behind in level that you can't do anything well, or with two actions a turn and natural reach you'll dominate any combat you get into.
Im horrble at optimizing TOB, but I think three actions a round, and auto refresh at the end of every other round would allow for some fun...
r1.. cast, maneuver, maneuver
r2.. cast, maneuver, maneuver
refresh
repeat
or whatever. any combo will do where four maneuvers are blown over the course of 2 rounds, and two casts. pretty hot little pepper.
assuming the effects stack.
so, would a choker crusader1/wizard5/swiftblade9/crusader+3 (cr20: CL11, IL11) have three standard/move actions per round?
Im horrble at optimizing TOB, but I think three actions a round, and auto refresh at the end of every other round would allow for some fun...
r1.. cast, maneuver, maneuver
r2.. cast, maneuver, maneuver
refresh
repeat
or whatever. any combo will do where four maneuvers are blown over the course of 2 rounds, and two casts. pretty hot little pepper.
assuming the effects stack.
You won't reload maneuvers every other round; the fastest possible is every third round, with the Extra Granted Maneuver feat. Despite the spam potential there, it doesn't look like you have enough firepower with any of the attacks to make a 20th level PC care, nor do you have the survivability to absorb PC attacks.
Where is Swiftblade, and is there an online preview of it? A pure casting Choker could do some pretty nasty things, only being a single spell level behind a normal race, if it had three actions a turn and enough spell slots to really make it count (namely, going nova). Technically the CR rules suggest it should only be a +1 for the first three Wizard levels being non-associated, but I think the Quickness ability is worth +2 CR on its own.
Seems like a divine spellcaster like a cleric or druid might make for a better fit.
Where is Swiftblade, and is there an online preview of it?
web online...
swiftblade
Last week I pitted the PC of the solo game I'm GMing against one of these. A choker with seven levels of crusader added (so, enough to get Divine Surge and Overwhelming Mountain Strike).
Background:
It was in an arena battle where the Devoted Choker was the gladiatorial champion. The PC is a 10th level gestalt paladin/sorcerer. Devoted Choker's CR is 9, but the PC is alone and gestalt, so the CR rules are screwy anyway. She just fought a CR 8 Dire Tiger and lost then fought another enemy and levelled from 9th to 10th, so I think a CR 9 is in the right ballpark.
Round 1: The battle went like this: Choker wins initiative, charges across the room. Failed to get his charging maneuver in the first draw, despite Extra Granted Maneuver. After charge attack, he makes one Strike attack. Does loads of damage. PC 5 attacks using Arcane Strike, five foot steps back.
Round 2: Choker steps up, unleashes two strikes. PC uses Abrupt Jaunt to avoid the first, but still gets hit via the other one (underestimated his reach). PC takes lots of damage; it is clear that if she stays in melee the Choker will win easily. PC attacks and steps away
Round 3: Choker only has charging maneuver available, and PC is too close to use it. So he takes his three attacks as a full attack. PC takes decent damage from his small sized greatsword, but nothing like Divine Surge damage. PC Abrupt Jaunts away from the third attack, leaving the Choker stuck where he is. She casts Greater Invisibility on herself.
Round 4: Choker has a real problem. No way to deal with invisible foes. He starts stepping around where he thinks the PC is and making multiple attacks. He comes close on one, but misses due to invisibility miss chance. PC mops up using spells, and the Choker never stands a chance after this point. Choker eventually drops in HP enough that he drops his weapon, pleads for mercy and forfeits the gladiatorial match.
So the Choker worked really well, actually. As long as the fight was on his terms (a straight up melee fight without any tricks like Abrupt Jaunt or Invisibility), the Choker had a huge advantage. Then the player started adjusting her tactics, and the Choker went from clear victor to never stood a chance. The fight was tough, but totally winnable and rewarded tactical thinking on he PC's part. Awesome.
The Choker also got a bit screwed with bad random power draws. The charging maneuver was useless the whole battle: I should have left it out for some other strike or another useful maneuver. He never got off a Divine Surge, and unfortunately missed with Overwhelming Mountain Strike. But he did his job well and lost like an NPC opponent of appropriate CR ultimately is supposed to.
I wonder a little about the Choker against a lower level party, as they wouldn't get tricks like Greater Invisibility yet (though Abrupt jaunt is always an option). They might have a tougher time with the Devoted Choker, but I don't know.