Crusader attempt - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Crusader attempt

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
erkaos13
Sep 13, 2008 20:12:41 So for the game I will be in I'm the only tank we will have and I have these ability scores
18,16,15,14,14,10
with 190 gold and level 1

My attempt is located here
Argo

Constructive criticism is very welcome as I've never made a crusader before.

Obviously I want to pick up a reach weapon, but one question I have is if I get armor spikes will I be able to use them when the enemy is in close?
Also suggestions on skills would be nice.
#2
Wyvernhand
Sep 13, 2008 21:41:33 Hmmm, I like Martial Spirit over Iron Guards Glare any day, but maybe that's just me. If you don't mind delaying Standstill for 3 levels, you could get EWP: Spiked Chain. I like this better than armor spikes. Its just really hard to hit hard with Armor Spikes, since they only get 1x str instead of 1.5x and you can't Power Attack with em. Don't even bother with Short Haft and a pole arm, its even worse. Hitting hard is what makes the DCs for Standstill work in the first place.

Looks good so far, you don't have much gold to spend left. Good things to upgrade asap would be to get a +1 weapon, +2 gauntlets of str, and +1 cloak of resistance. Probably a Healing Belt too, from MIC.

Best of luck...what are your future build plans?
#3
erkaos13
Sep 14, 2008 16:10:50 My future plans right now are only up to about level six, I did like the spike chain idea that seems to be a good idea, so right now I have it set as this.

stats the same
Feats
Human: combat reflexes
1st exotic weapon proficiency

Stance: martial spirit
Manuevers: the same

skills
Balance 2 ranks, ride 2 ranks, intimidate 4 ranks, diplomacy 4 ranks

at level 3 i plan on getting stand still
at level six extra granted manuever

and thats as far as I've gone.
#4
maulorn
Sep 14, 2008 17:23:14 Really the more I think about it...reach is not a way to go with a Crusader AoO build...

To me you would have more reach...but I think it would be better having opponents up close and personal so you can gain more benefits from your delayed damage pool.

I really am going to have to try the sword and board AoO expert. I think that it would still be just as effective...and really what is the point of a crusader keeping stuff out of reach from damaging them...

Crusaders are by no means squishy...they get even nastier when they start taking damage and you have the ability, especially with a good healer to back you to take the hits and punish even worse...

So why reach with Crusader?
#5
erkaos13
Sep 14, 2008 18:16:19 my whole point is not about damage really, the AoO is for standstill at level three and the use of thicket of blades with combat reflexes to make sure I stop enemies in their tracks and make me seem like the biggest threat and to attack me. The only reason I need damage is for the dc of standstill. I want to cause enemies to fight me not the squishies.
#6
Omen_of_Peace
Sep 15, 2008 8:24:12 @Maulorn: reach is very important in 3.5 for a variety of reasons. In the case of a tanking Crusader, the main reason is that you want opponents to pay attention to you : you need a large threatened zone to control them.
#7
maulorn
Sep 16, 2008 10:35:32 I would rather have normal reach though to make use of the abilities of a crusader.

Yes it is nice to be able to control a larger area, yet I do not mind moving around and accomplishing the same.

@Maulorn: reach is very important in 3.5 for a variety of reasons. In the case of a tanking Crusader, the main reason is that you want opponents to pay attention to you : you need a large threatened zone to control them.

I do not see how having a reach weapon is going to make an opponent focus on you more or less than having a non-reach.

Technically someone with a 10' reach can control a 15' section while someone with a 5' can control a 10'.

It is illogical to think that all opponents are going to behave the same way. Granted it all depends on the DM roleplaying intelligence and such, yet I am sure most opponents after not being able to even draw near because of standstill will select something more tangible. Unless your DM is going easy, or you are in a closed in space, it is easy to bypass you. (Which is why as a Crusader you have other abilities that punish people who select other targets than yourself...regardless if you have a reach weapon or a normal one.)

Most reach weapons too...and again I say most. Will require you to move anyways if the opponent closes.

If the opponent feels like it is having an effect on its given target it will may keep it from selecting other targets. You still have the capabilities too of keeping it stuck in place if it does decide to go after someone.

Now a Crusader with reach does not have to rely as much on movement and is like a wall. Yet a crusader without reach can be a bit more tough, though they will have to be a bit more mobile.

I guess end of the day it is personal preference. I like being more active and moving and I also like the increased defense capabilities.
#8
Omen_of_Peace
Sep 16, 2008 19:20:13 Look at Devoted Spirit: Iron Guard's Glare. Defensive Rebuke. Thicket of Blades. All of those make the opponent want to focus on you but you need a large threatened zone to make them work well.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 erkaos13 Sep 13, 2008 20:12:41	So for the game I will be in I'm the only tank we will have and I have these ability scores 18,16,15,14,14,10 with 190 gold and level 1 My attempt is located here Argo Constructive criticism is very welcome as I've never made a crusader before. Obviously I want to pick up a reach weapon, but one question I have is if I get armor spikes will I be able to use them when the enemy is in close? Also suggestions on skills would be nice.
#2 Wyvernhand Sep 13, 2008 21:41:33	Hmmm, I like Martial Spirit over Iron Guards Glare any day, but maybe that's just me. If you don't mind delaying Standstill for 3 levels, you could get EWP: Spiked Chain. I like this better than armor spikes. Its just really hard to hit hard with Armor Spikes, since they only get 1x str instead of 1.5x and you can't Power Attack with em. Don't even bother with Short Haft and a pole arm, its even worse. Hitting hard is what makes the DCs for Standstill work in the first place. Looks good so far, you don't have much gold to spend left. Good things to upgrade asap would be to get a +1 weapon, +2 gauntlets of str, and +1 cloak of resistance. Probably a Healing Belt too, from MIC. Best of luck...what are your future build plans?
#3 erkaos13 Sep 14, 2008 16:10:50	My future plans right now are only up to about level six, I did like the spike chain idea that seems to be a good idea, so right now I have it set as this. stats the same Feats Human: combat reflexes 1st exotic weapon proficiency Stance: martial spirit Manuevers: the same skills Balance 2 ranks, ride 2 ranks, intimidate 4 ranks, diplomacy 4 ranks at level 3 i plan on getting stand still at level six extra granted manuever and thats as far as I've gone.
#4 maulorn Sep 14, 2008 17:23:14	Really the more I think about it...reach is not a way to go with a Crusader AoO build... To me you would have more reach...but I think it would be better having opponents up close and personal so you can gain more benefits from your delayed damage pool. I really am going to have to try the sword and board AoO expert. I think that it would still be just as effective...and really what is the point of a crusader keeping stuff out of reach from damaging them... Crusaders are by no means squishy...they get even nastier when they start taking damage and you have the ability, especially with a good healer to back you to take the hits and punish even worse... So why reach with Crusader?
#5 erkaos13 Sep 14, 2008 18:16:19	my whole point is not about damage really, the AoO is for standstill at level three and the use of thicket of blades with combat reflexes to make sure I stop enemies in their tracks and make me seem like the biggest threat and to attack me. The only reason I need damage is for the dc of standstill. I want to cause enemies to fight me not the squishies.
#6 Omen_of_Peace Sep 15, 2008 8:24:12	@Maulorn: reach is very important in 3.5 for a variety of reasons. In the case of a tanking Crusader, the main reason is that you want opponents to pay attention to you : you need a large threatened zone to control them.
#7 maulorn Sep 16, 2008 10:35:32	I would rather have normal reach though to make use of the abilities of a crusader. Yes it is nice to be able to control a larger area, yet I do not mind moving around and accomplishing the same. @Maulorn: reach is very important in 3.5 for a variety of reasons. In the case of a tanking Crusader, the main reason is that you want opponents to pay attention to you : you need a large threatened zone to control them. I do not see how having a reach weapon is going to make an opponent focus on you more or less than having a non-reach. Technically someone with a 10' reach can control a 15' section while someone with a 5' can control a 10'. It is illogical to think that all opponents are going to behave the same way. Granted it all depends on the DM roleplaying intelligence and such, yet I am sure most opponents after not being able to even draw near because of standstill will select something more tangible. Unless your DM is going easy, or you are in a closed in space, it is easy to bypass you. (Which is why as a Crusader you have other abilities that punish people who select other targets than yourself...regardless if you have a reach weapon or a normal one.) Most reach weapons too...and again I say most. Will require you to move anyways if the opponent closes. If the opponent feels like it is having an effect on its given target it will may keep it from selecting other targets. You still have the capabilities too of keeping it stuck in place if it does decide to go after someone. Now a Crusader with reach does not have to rely as much on movement and is like a wall. Yet a crusader without reach can be a bit more tough, though they will have to be a bit more mobile. I guess end of the day it is personal preference. I like being more active and moving and I also like the increased defense capabilities.
#8 Omen_of_Peace Sep 16, 2008 19:20:13	Look at Devoted Spirit: Iron Guard's Glare. Defensive Rebuke. Thicket of Blades. All of those make the opponent want to focus on you but you need a large threatened zone to make them work well.