Crusader Help

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

maldur_dup

Apr 20, 2009 14:20:07
Hello CO Boards! I'm here again, and this time I'm looking at a Warforged Crusader. Our campaign is starting at level 1, and so far we only have two characters (my warforged and a 12 year old human cleric) though more are in the making. I would greatly appreciate any advice on feats (flaws are ok), maneuvers, and PrCs. All material is allowed, from all sources. Just nothing game-breaking, please. :P
#2

eldariel

Apr 20, 2009 16:22:56
Stone Power is a great feat for a low-level Crusader. Every Crusader should also have Extra Granted Maneuver. Depending on your exact role, Combat Reflexes and mayhap Power Attack (you'll eventually want it at some point anyways) or Stand Still could be worthwhile.


Combat Reflexes and Stand Still [SRD] facilitate a controlling build manipulating the battlefield, which especially once you get Thicket of Blades around ~level 6 (depending on how you take your levels) is something a Crusader excels in. Improved Trip could be used instead of/in addition to Stand Still; it's better, but more limited vs. large creatures. This could further be pursued with Knock-Down [SRD]. Jotunbrud [PGtF] would be fine for a tripper.

Knockback + Rampaging Bull Rush [RoS] would offer another type of an option, which meshes better with the feats below and doesn't require Int 13 for Improved Trip (although two levels of Wolf Totem Barbarian [SRD] could get it for you without prerequisites). However, you need to be large/powerful build for Knockback, so without Jotunbrud you have no business taking it and even with Jotunbrud, you'd need DM permission (although as Jotunbrud is practically identical to Powerful Build, it shouldn't be hard to get that).

Power Attack & Improved Bull Rush would facilitate a chargeish build going for Shock Trooper on level 6. This would be very solid offensively. If you have Stone Power, you'd be solid defensively anyways (it works perfectly with Delayed Damage Pool).


Either way, Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Spiked Chain would be solid (as for anyone interested in controlling area) giving you an awesome two-handed damage output combined with trip options and being able to threaten adjacent and reach simultaneously with the same weapon. It's stronger for a controller, but both types can use it to a great effect. Those are the biggest ones off the top of my head - multiclassing would bring more options (Extra Rage/Intimidating Rage/Instantaneous for Barbarian, Song of the White Raven/Extra Song/Words of Creation/Dragonfire Inspiration for Bard, etc.), but for a pure crusader, those are the most important to start with.


EDIT: Remembered you were a Human - Jotunbrud isn't available for Warforged, so ignore that part. Also, Adamantine Body is a fine feat for Warforged melee characters. I'd consider Stone Power/Adamantine Body/Extra Granted Maneuver with two flaws. And yeah, Warforged Juggernaut kicks ass.
#3

dawnmor

Apr 20, 2009 16:34:17
Well, I have something that may work, its on my thumb stick drive but I will look for it later if I remember. But the run down was........

Crusader 15/Warforged juggernaught 5.

Grab martial spirit stance, enlarge when you can, get the adamantine body feat.
#4

maldur_dup

Apr 20, 2009 22:54:22
Dawnmor, I'm really looking forward to that build of yours. Post it soon, okay :D ? And Eladriel, thanks for the feat suggestions. I looked through the ones you suggested, and they look great! Thanks to both of you for your input.
#5

Balthanon

Apr 21, 2009 12:19:51
If you go that route, I would consider Crusader 14/Fighter 1/Warforged Juggernaught 5. Crusader 15 doesn't really give you anything and you'll have the same initiator level this way.
#6

wraithstrike

Apr 21, 2009 12:47:21
I was about to post the same question as the OP, but I want to know what reason is there to take a Crusader as opposed to any other martial class.
#7

dr_rocktopus

Apr 21, 2009 13:00:48
No recovery time.

None.

Zilch.

You make every other class in the game look like a slow and squishy blob* as a crusader. You hit hard, you take the blows, you offer utility and power, and you pretty much never need to rest. I mean, yeah, you're not a caster. But your caster friends will love you.


*Frenzied Berserker not included.
#8

wraithstrike

Apr 21, 2009 13:26:42
No recovery time.

None.

Zilch.

You make every other class in the game look like a slow and squishy blob* as a crusader. You hit hard, you take the blows, you offer utility and power, and you pretty much never need to rest. I mean, yeah, you're not a caster. But your caster friends will love you.


*Frenzied Berserker not included.

So I can fight in long battles, rather than run out of manuevers and end up looking like a warrior(NPC class)?
#9

dr_rocktopus

Apr 21, 2009 13:38:04
Also running out of HP is difficult for you. Fast healing and crusaders combine to make a sick and stupid joke.
#10

sofawall

Apr 21, 2009 13:41:41
You can also (debatably) punch your allies to heal you/them. Infinitely.

EDIT: Damn that's some ninja skills right there.
We need a ninja emote, like only :ninja:
#11

dr_rocktopus

Apr 21, 2009 13:45:55
Let's face, Sofa, I'm hunting you.
#12

sofawall

Apr 21, 2009 13:52:01
With great skill, apparently. Using Celerity or something?

Wow, I just thought of what to grab for my Factotum's Arcane Dilettante! Yay Celerity+extra Standard actions+sneaky sneakster+Iaijutsu Focus!
#13

dr_rocktopus

Apr 21, 2009 13:52:38
Eh, if it was great skill, I'd catch you online sometime to chat about Spell-Jam Sessions.
#14

sofawall

Apr 21, 2009 13:55:45
Ah, yeah, Web Messenger has been hating on me recently.
#15

Balthanon

Apr 21, 2009 13:58:05
I was about to post the same question as the OP, but I want to know what reason is there to take a Crusader as opposed to any other martial class.

They're all decent and have their strengths and weaknesses. The ability of crusaders to continuously use their maneuvers is their primary strength, but they pay for it with fewer class abilities, the fact that they can't control which maneuver they have at any given time, and a more limited selection.

Warblades have a maneuver recovery method which is almost as good and retain control over what they pick up. Their class abilities are also decent boosts, but they have the least amount of maneuvers readed at any given time.

Swordsages on the other hand are the wizards of the martial adept world-- they have a lot of versatility, but they aren't the type that can just keep spamming the same maneuvers over and over.

All martial adepts can keep going almost indefinitely (though Swordsage does require Adaptive Recovery), the big variable is really how much down time you have to recover once you're running low, which ranges from nothing (crusader) to a full round or more (swordsages). Which one works best for you is really dependent on your playing style, since they all have their strengths.
#16

dawnmor

Apr 21, 2009 14:37:39
Maldur: I cant find it LOL.

The Run down is.......

Warforged Crusader 15/Warforged Juggernaught 5

Feats: Adamantine Body, Imp Bull Rush, Power attack, Those are the most needed. Grab the feat that makes you immune to Sneak attacks and such. Some Warforged feats are crucial, but sense I dont have my book I cant list them.

Stances: Martial Spirit Stance (2hp per strike, so you hit something say 20x you heal anyone including yourself 40 HP)

That stance is crucial. Then grab magic items, Ring of feather fall, Ring of solar (BoED, it gives you 150ft flying). Ring of Giant size would work perfectly. (Ring of Giant size is a Custom made item)

Main tactic here depending on how you interpret the rules for Martial stance, you literally turn yourself into a cannon ball, fly up to say 150ft, roll up into a cannon ball (Body of Iron spell may be useful?), then fall down with Martial spirit going, you are now your own weapon, make sure you do this with large groups of 10+, now Fall down 100ft with martial spirit stance going, you now just took 10d6 falling damage, but OH LOOK! you just struck 10+ monsters you heal some of that back , oh average you will do around half the falling damage done to you depending on how the DM dice rolls, you just did a strike on all 10+ mobs, you healed yourself 20+ damage due to Martial spirit. This doesnt include flying debris damage btw , but your doing splash damage :D. Now go to town on the wounded, maybe cleave and great cleave?

I hope I explained this well enough
#17

maldur_dup

Apr 21, 2009 14:59:21
Maldur: I cant find it LOL.

O well, the rundown looks nice anyway. Thanks for tying at least. And if you ever DO find it...you know where to find me.
#18

maldur_dup

Apr 21, 2009 19:47:29
I've been loking around the boards, and it seems that most people agree that reach weapons go good with crusaders. Why is that? Why would I take a reach weapon, like a glaive, over something like a longsword or greatsword?
#19

eldariel

Apr 21, 2009 20:13:44
I've been loking around the boards, and it seems that most people agree that reach weapons go good with crusaders. Why is that? Why would I take a reach weapon, like a glaive, over something like a longsword or greatsword?

It's really simple: You have this wonderful stance called "Thicket of Blades". You also have a plenty of options as to what to do with attacks of opportunity (Evasive Reflexes/Side Step/Stand Still/Improved Trip/etc.). With reach, you can hit opponents before they hit you, you'll get attacks of opportunity, you can prevent melee threats from getting past you to reach the casters, you can control opposing casters (you can threaten 5' with Armor Spikes, Unarmed Strikes or what-have-you while threatening 10' with your weapon - even if they 5' step away, you can still stop them from casting), etc.

Basically, two major things: You get the alpha strike against opponents of equal size and you can control the battlefield. The latter meshes incredibly well with Thicket of Blades (among other things, it makes 5' steps and Tumble provoke), the former is handy in general. It's easily worth giving up an average of 2 points of damage to threaten a larger area. As a bonus, reach weapons can often be used to trip, for example, which is just awesome when done with a weapon.
#20

wraithstrike

Apr 21, 2009 20:18:43
I've been loking around the boards, and it seems that most people agree that reach weapons go good with crusaders. Why is that? Why would I take a reach weapon, like a glaive, over something like a longsword or greatsword?

Ever since shoft-haft(PHB 2) I have started to use reach weapons a lot. Enemies that can't tumble will have to find other means of escaping, and if you DM used the opposed tumble checks they may have to get above a 15 on the tumble check.

PS: I did not know Crusaders had access to Thicket of Blades:evillaugh
#21

sofawall

Apr 21, 2009 22:01:19
Yup that's the main reason, Thicket of Blades.