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Crusader/Wizard/JPM

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
dawnmor
May 26, 2008 2:29:49 Alright so bare with me......

As far as I know all books are allowed, no Drag magazines, Flaws are the only thing im using out of UA.

Abilities: 14, 18, 16, 16, 17, 14

Race: Dwarf

Flaws: Inattentive, Murky eyed.

Crusader 1/Wizard 6/JPM 10/Mindbender 1/Runesmith 1/XXX 1 (Was thinking maybe spellsword maybe?)

My math I would get IL 17/CL 17.......

Idea of the Build: My idea was to play a total defensive character while casting spells or just playing a tank behind a shield who can take the hits and cast spells in the process. He will be more of a Buffer then anything else, which lead me to a Defensive Gish.

Feats I would like to try and fit in to fit the defensive roll while maintaining the offensive casting aspect: Adaptive Style, Split ray, Mobile spellcasting, Exotic shield (Gauntlet shield) *Priority I think*, Shielded Casting.

Those fit the defensive roll pretty good, lets me cast while even being attacked, less of a chance ill be interrupted is a good thing. Empower Spell? or would a Rod be better? Two rods of Empower spell (Lesser), heh.

My plan for progression is: Crusader 1/Wizard 5/Mindbender 1/Runesmith 1/JPM2. At lvl 10 which is where I think im starting at is going to be 4th lvl maneuvers and 4th lvl spells with IL 7/CL 8.

Any help would be appreciated to accomplish my goals.

Edited: I would like to get Craft Arms and Armor in there somewhere.
#2
blargney_the_second
May 26, 2008 2:47:11 Minor Shapeshift + Steely Resolve = groovy.
#3
Kurama_Youko
May 26, 2008 9:36:03 I think Warblade would Synergize better. JPM doesn't require you to have any specific discipline of maneuvers, just that you do have a maneuver and a stance therefore I'd just Warblade also for that last class I'd suggest Abjurant Champion
#4
ChristopherGroves
May 26, 2008 10:48:34 The biggest benefit to JPM is that it advances IL and casting. If you're going to do that I'd actually try to enter using feats for martial study/spirit and then put your adept class later in the build to take advantage of boosted IL.
#5
tshern
May 26, 2008 11:37:19 And then retrain those pesky feats you took to enter the class. I'd also toss in some Abjurant Champion and ignore whatever shield feats you had.
#6
Kurama_Youko
May 26, 2008 13:01:22
The biggest benefit to JPM is that it advances IL and casting. If you're going to do that I'd actually try to enter using feats for martial study/spirit and then put your adept class later in the build to take advantage of boosted IL.

But, wait even if you retrain them those feats that allowed entrance into the PrC, doesn't that still leave you with 5 maneuvers that don't have a recovery method.
#7
arencer
May 26, 2008 14:08:23 I'm starting a campaign in a few weeks (at least I hope so) and I will be playing an almost identical character.

I'm thinking of going Wiz 4/Crusader 1/Runesmith 1/JPM 2/Abj Champion 1 and afterwards a combination of JPM, abjurant Champion and maybe one level of Spellsword.

As for feats, I was planning on Combat Casting, Steady Concentration (or Shielded Casting), Minor Shapeshift, Arcane Strike, Practised Spellcaster (haven't decided order yet).

I think it's a good thing to specialize in Conjuration so as to take "Abrupt Jaunt" (from PHB 2).

Is there a reason why you are taking 6 levels of Wizard? If my build is legal, only 4 are needed (have I made a mistake?).

@Kurama Youko: why do you think Warblade would be better? JPM can only advance Devoted Spirit and Desert Wind, neither of which is available to a Warblade. Also, i think Warblades don't get Heavy Armor Proficiency, which would make it impossible to enter Runesmith.
#8
madwand
May 26, 2008 14:43:17 The best thread I've found on this topic is the JPM Handbook:

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1029916

It should answer most of your questions.
#9
dawnmor
May 26, 2008 15:34:15
I'm starting a campaign in a few weeks (at least I hope so) and I will be playing an almost identical character.

I'm thinking of going Wiz 4/Crusader 1/Runesmith 1/JPM 2/Abj Champion 1 and afterwards a combination of JPM, abjurant Champion and maybe one level of Spellsword.

As for feats, I was planning on Combat Casting, Steady Concentration (or Shielded Casting), Minor Shapeshift, Arcane Strike, Practised Spellcaster (haven't decided order yet).

I think it's a good thing to specialize in Conjuration so as to take "Abrupt Jaunt" (from PHB 2).

Is there a reason why you are taking 6 levels of Wizard? If my build is legal, only 4 are needed (have I made a mistake?).

@Kurama Youko: why do you think Warblade would be better? JPM can only advance Devoted Spirit and Desert Wind, neither of which is available to a Warblade. Also, i think Warblades don't get Heavy Armor Proficiency, which would make it impossible to enter Runesmith.

My plan is to get 9th lvl buff spells, but I hate going a direct wizard route. Once out of spells where will you be at? Youll have maneuvers then.

I like versatility not stuck with the same things.

I just realized I could go Crusader 1/wizard 4/JPM 10/then take Abjurant champion or something for 4, and runesmith 1. I would take runesmith at lvl 6 so I can cast in armor while doing JPM. Hmmmm.

Would Abjurant Champion's Mage armor spells STACK with that of magic armor ? or do they cancel each other out?
#10
arencer
May 26, 2008 16:21:22
I just realized I could go Crusader 1/wizard 4/JPM 10/then take Abjurant champion or something for 4, and runesmith 1. I would take runesmith at lvl 6 so I can cast in armor while doing JPM.

That's what I'll be doing ^^

Would Abjurant Champion's Mage armor spells STACK with that of magic armor ? or do they cancel each other out?

If both of them provide an armor bonus (which is the case, I think), they do not stack. You just get the highest one. I, however, don't think that this is a problem: Abjurant Champion is still good.
#11
ChristopherGroves
May 26, 2008 18:51:51
But, wait even if you retrain them those feats that allowed entrance into the PrC, doesn't that still leave you with 5 maneuvers that don't have a recovery method.

JPMs have problems in the area of "opportunity cost".

What do you do? Strike? Cast a spell?

So yeah, you'll have a number of lower-level maneuvers that don't recover well. And then a good half-dozen that can be recovered ... all at a higher level.
#12
madwand
May 26, 2008 19:21:28
JPMs have problems in the area of "opportunity cost".

What do you do? Strike? Cast a spell?

So yeah, you'll have a number of lower-level maneuvers that don't recover well. And then a good half-dozen that can be recovered ... all at a higher level.

You still need to take a level in Crusader, Swordsage, or Warblade to have any way to recover those maneuvers in-combat. Otherwise, you'll only be able to use the maneuvers once/encounter.
#13
dawnmor
May 26, 2008 20:22:04 Oh I was just informed that my DM is messing with Dead, Wild, and antimagic area's. So is there any way to detect the area's? or repair them? according the MoF, you can use detect magic to see a Wild magic area, then use the Tenacious magic feat to repair the area in a radius of 30ft. Or use the detect magic to go around the wildmagic area.

I really dont want to spend so much time on this character and have his items mess up and loose there magic because the DM likes to use area's such as that.

Also, TShern mentioned using Greater Luminous armor for a +8 AC as full plate, then use +5 from Abjurant Champion. For a total of +13 and +whatever from Dex and shield. So thats a additional +3 mod in my case.

Extend the GLA and my lvl will be CL 8, 10 with practiced spellcaster, thats 8 hours of armor a day. Extend it for more fun.

If I take the non runesmith route, I think I can have Higher AC of armor. But with the DM using Wildmagic area's im not too sure.
#14
Kurama_Youko
May 26, 2008 23:15:34 It might have been just flavor text, but I do distinctively remember reading any kind of creature with spells, spell-like or supernatural abilities knows or feels the presence of Anti Magic the moment they touch it. You're DM should not wait to tell you when you're about to cast a spell that you're in a dead magic or anti magic zone, because as Magic is a part of you, you can feel when you lose access to it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 dawnmor May 26, 2008 2:29:49	Alright so bare with me...... As far as I know all books are allowed, no Drag magazines, Flaws are the only thing im using out of UA. Abilities: 14, 18, 16, 16, 17, 14 Race: Dwarf Flaws: Inattentive, Murky eyed. Crusader 1/Wizard 6/JPM 10/Mindbender 1/Runesmith 1/XXX 1 (Was thinking maybe spellsword maybe?) My math I would get IL 17/CL 17....... Idea of the Build: My idea was to play a total defensive character while casting spells or just playing a tank behind a shield who can take the hits and cast spells in the process. He will be more of a Buffer then anything else, which lead me to a Defensive Gish. Feats I would like to try and fit in to fit the defensive roll while maintaining the offensive casting aspect: Adaptive Style, Split ray, Mobile spellcasting, Exotic shield (Gauntlet shield) Priority I think, Shielded Casting. Those fit the defensive roll pretty good, lets me cast while even being attacked, less of a chance ill be interrupted is a good thing. Empower Spell? or would a Rod be better? Two rods of Empower spell (Lesser), heh. My plan for progression is: Crusader 1/Wizard 5/Mindbender 1/Runesmith 1/JPM2. At lvl 10 which is where I think im starting at is going to be 4th lvl maneuvers and 4th lvl spells with IL 7/CL 8. Any help would be appreciated to accomplish my goals. Edited: I would like to get Craft Arms and Armor in there somewhere.
#2 blargney_the_second May 26, 2008 2:47:11	Minor Shapeshift + Steely Resolve = groovy.
#3 Kurama_Youko May 26, 2008 9:36:03	I think Warblade would Synergize better. JPM doesn't require you to have any specific discipline of maneuvers, just that you do have a maneuver and a stance therefore I'd just Warblade also for that last class I'd suggest Abjurant Champion
#4 ChristopherGroves May 26, 2008 10:48:34	The biggest benefit to JPM is that it advances IL and casting. If you're going to do that I'd actually try to enter using feats for martial study/spirit and then put your adept class later in the build to take advantage of boosted IL.
#5 tshern May 26, 2008 11:37:19	And then retrain those pesky feats you took to enter the class. I'd also toss in some Abjurant Champion and ignore whatever shield feats you had.
#6 Kurama_Youko May 26, 2008 13:01:22	The biggest benefit to JPM is that it advances IL and casting. If you're going to do that I'd actually try to enter using feats for martial study/spirit and then put your adept class later in the build to take advantage of boosted IL. But, wait even if you retrain them those feats that allowed entrance into the PrC, doesn't that still leave you with 5 maneuvers that don't have a recovery method.
#7 arencer May 26, 2008 14:08:23	I'm starting a campaign in a few weeks (at least I hope so) and I will be playing an almost identical character. I'm thinking of going Wiz 4/Crusader 1/Runesmith 1/JPM 2/Abj Champion 1 and afterwards a combination of JPM, abjurant Champion and maybe one level of Spellsword. As for feats, I was planning on Combat Casting, Steady Concentration (or Shielded Casting), Minor Shapeshift, Arcane Strike, Practised Spellcaster (haven't decided order yet). I think it's a good thing to specialize in Conjuration so as to take "Abrupt Jaunt" (from PHB 2). Is there a reason why you are taking 6 levels of Wizard? If my build is legal, only 4 are needed (have I made a mistake?). @Kurama Youko: why do you think Warblade would be better? JPM can only advance Devoted Spirit and Desert Wind, neither of which is available to a Warblade. Also, i think Warblades don't get Heavy Armor Proficiency, which would make it impossible to enter Runesmith.
#8 madwand May 26, 2008 14:43:17	The best thread I've found on this topic is the JPM Handbook: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1029916 It should answer most of your questions.
#9 dawnmor May 26, 2008 15:34:15	I'm starting a campaign in a few weeks (at least I hope so) and I will be playing an almost identical character. I'm thinking of going Wiz 4/Crusader 1/Runesmith 1/JPM 2/Abj Champion 1 and afterwards a combination of JPM, abjurant Champion and maybe one level of Spellsword. As for feats, I was planning on Combat Casting, Steady Concentration (or Shielded Casting), Minor Shapeshift, Arcane Strike, Practised Spellcaster (haven't decided order yet). I think it's a good thing to specialize in Conjuration so as to take "Abrupt Jaunt" (from PHB 2). Is there a reason why you are taking 6 levels of Wizard? If my build is legal, only 4 are needed (have I made a mistake?). @Kurama Youko: why do you think Warblade would be better? JPM can only advance Devoted Spirit and Desert Wind, neither of which is available to a Warblade. Also, i think Warblades don't get Heavy Armor Proficiency, which would make it impossible to enter Runesmith. My plan is to get 9th lvl buff spells, but I hate going a direct wizard route. Once out of spells where will you be at? Youll have maneuvers then. I like versatility not stuck with the same things. I just realized I could go Crusader 1/wizard 4/JPM 10/then take Abjurant champion or something for 4, and runesmith 1. I would take runesmith at lvl 6 so I can cast in armor while doing JPM. Hmmmm. Would Abjurant Champion's Mage armor spells STACK with that of magic armor ? or do they cancel each other out?
#10 arencer May 26, 2008 16:21:22	I just realized I could go Crusader 1/wizard 4/JPM 10/then take Abjurant champion or something for 4, and runesmith 1. I would take runesmith at lvl 6 so I can cast in armor while doing JPM. That's what I'll be doing ^^ Would Abjurant Champion's Mage armor spells STACK with that of magic armor ? or do they cancel each other out? If both of them provide an armor bonus (which is the case, I think), they do not stack. You just get the highest one. I, however, don't think that this is a problem: Abjurant Champion is still good.
#11 ChristopherGroves May 26, 2008 18:51:51	But, wait even if you retrain them those feats that allowed entrance into the PrC, doesn't that still leave you with 5 maneuvers that don't have a recovery method. JPMs have problems in the area of "opportunity cost". What do you do? Strike? Cast a spell? So yeah, you'll have a number of lower-level maneuvers that don't recover well. And then a good half-dozen that can be recovered ... all at a higher level.
#12 madwand May 26, 2008 19:21:28	JPMs have problems in the area of "opportunity cost". What do you do? Strike? Cast a spell? So yeah, you'll have a number of lower-level maneuvers that don't recover well. And then a good half-dozen that can be recovered ... all at a higher level. You still need to take a level in Crusader, Swordsage, or Warblade to have any way to recover those maneuvers in-combat. Otherwise, you'll only be able to use the maneuvers once/encounter.
#13 dawnmor May 26, 2008 20:22:04	Oh I was just informed that my DM is messing with Dead, Wild, and antimagic area's. So is there any way to detect the area's? or repair them? according the MoF, you can use detect magic to see a Wild magic area, then use the Tenacious magic feat to repair the area in a radius of 30ft. Or use the detect magic to go around the wildmagic area. I really dont want to spend so much time on this character and have his items mess up and loose there magic because the DM likes to use area's such as that. Also, TShern mentioned using Greater Luminous armor for a +8 AC as full plate, then use +5 from Abjurant Champion. For a total of +13 and +whatever from Dex and shield. So thats a additional +3 mod in my case. Extend the GLA and my lvl will be CL 8, 10 with practiced spellcaster, thats 8 hours of armor a day. Extend it for more fun. If I take the non runesmith route, I think I can have Higher AC of armor. But with the DM using Wildmagic area's im not too sure.
#14 Kurama_Youko May 26, 2008 23:15:34	It might have been just flavor text, but I do distinctively remember reading any kind of creature with spells, spell-like or supernatural abilities knows or feels the presence of Anti Magic the moment they touch it. You're DM should not wait to tell you when you're about to cast a spell that you're in a dead magic or anti magic zone, because as Magic is a part of you, you can feel when you lose access to it.