Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 anansi Feb 20, 2009 20:49:52	You are all going to hate me for this, but... I'm looking on advice and suggestions for converting a first/second edition gish into 3.5E. The character in question is a drow fighter/magic-user/thief who made extensive use of the 1E drow's ability to dual wield without penalty. Spells were used mostly for blasting (which didn't suck in 1E & 2E) with some buffing on the side (most of the 1E/2E buff spells were on the cleric list. I have nineteen class levels to work with (making the character ECL 21). Since this is a character I have played for over thirteen years, I've accumulated considerable wealth and goodies, which I will list later when I'm not so damned tired. Here are my ideas so far... Fighter 1/Rogue 2/Wizard 2/Unseen Seer 5/Abjurant Champion 5/Arcane Trickster 4 Fighter 2/Rogue 2/Wizard 3/Abjurant Champion 5/Spellsword 1/Eldritch Knight 6 - Using feat rogue variant. I apologise for the sparseness of this post... I'm just very tired...
#2 keithio Feb 20, 2009 21:38:36	Drow is pretty terrible in 3.5E, but oh well. An important thing that your ideas don't seem to consider is that you really, really, really REALLY don't want to lose more caster levels. Since you're around epic level, I would say no more than 4 total, which allows 2 more. Practiced caster will reduce the pain of these lost caster levels. I would recommend more along the lines of: Rogue1/Wizard4/UnseenSeer7/AbjurantChampion5/ArcaneTrickster4 As this seems close to the ones you proposed. The big problem with this build is that it only has 14 BAB - or 15, with fractional BAB houserule. I'm assuming your character, although level 21, is not epic. If he is, than the point of BAB he got from level 21 won't count. Anyways, aside from the BAB the build loses 3 caster levels which is as good as you're going to get with the drow LA for a gish. It also has 6d6 sneak attack, which I think is something you wanted in your character, along with lots of skill points. Take Hunter's Eye from PHB II from advanced learning to do crazy sneak attack (14d6 total), persist it and wraithstrike from spell compendium and you are very cheesy.
#3 gorfnad_the_shiznit Feb 21, 2009 0:12:00	Go with rogue for the first levels instead of fighter for many many more much needed skill points. Rogue 2/ Swashbuckler 3/ Wizard 5/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Unseen Seer 5 dual wield rapiers with the Over sized TWF feat?
#4 Endarire Feb 21, 2009 14:30:13	Scroll down on this page for LA 0 drow. You could also use lesser drow from Player's Guide to Faerun 191 for no LA, but they're weaker than LA 0 drow. You could go Rogue1/Barbarian1 (Whirling Frenzy & Pounce)/Martial Transmuter5/Eldritch Knight9/Abjurant Champion5. Continue progressing in Eldritch Knight or Unseen Seer as appropriate, though preferably no more than 5 levels so you don't lose caster levels for non-divinations.
#5 keithio Feb 21, 2009 15:17:03	Taking a better version of drow as Endarire suggested is obviously a good idea. However the level of rogue in his build was rather pointless since it's main utility is to meet the skill prereqs of Unseen Seer, which was not in his build. While unseen seer does cause lost caster levels for non-divination spells, the practiced caster feat easily takes care of those and the lost level from taking rogue. I really like the advanced learning feature of Unseen Seer, for hunter's eye and also "Choose Destiny" from Races of Destiny, a very powerful 9th level buff. I must agree though that the barbarian build for pounce is very competitive also, if you can get a +0 LA version of drow then the extra level of casting it costs (From taking Eldritch Knight) is much more tolerable. Here is a level 20 build which combines things nicely. It loses one caster level and only has 15 BAB, but it gets both pounce (From complete champion barbarian variant) and unseen seer: Barbarian1/Wizard6/Spellsword1/AbjurantChampion5/UnseenSeer7 If it only had one more BAB I'd love it to death.... And as Endarire mentioned, the martial wizard variant is a must for any gish, and specializing is also a good idea.
#6 ikeren Feb 21, 2009 23:33:59	If your starting at high levels, and don't have to deal with lower levels, do something cheesy with Ur Priest, Sublime Chord, and Fochlucan Lyracists. You can get 16+ BAB with 9th level arcane and divine casting.
#7 anansi Feb 23, 2009 13:06:52	Thanks for the help, guys. Sorry about the sketchiness of my request. I like your ideas, they're pretty good so far. I'm at work right now so I can't stay long but I'll work on something and return soon, hopefully within the next couple of days or so. I also have to run this by the dude who DMs this PC, I want to see if I can get started up again with her. Also, regarding the LA +0 drow... would I have to take additional "racial class levels" or could I simply play a "weaker" version of the drow (I pretty much get everything I want from the first racial level, anyway). I played this character for a while and really like her, plus I knew all her 1st and 2nd edition abilities well enough that I could get away with being slightly less than optimised. Ikeren - Your suggestions are pretty good but this is an established character, not one being made from scratch, so I have a lot less leeway in that regard. The whirling frenzy/pounce thing would work rather well with her fighting style. Also, she was raised by orcs so a barbarian level wouldn't be too out of place. Anyhoo... I'll get back to you on that.
#8 almagest Feb 23, 2009 15:42:46	Also, regarding the LA +0 drow... would I have to take additional "racial class levels" or could I simply play a "weaker" version of the drow (I pretty much get everything I want from the first racial level, anyway). I believe you have to take all the racial levels before leveling in any other class, like you do for undead levels in Libris Mortis. These racial class levels follow the normal rules for gaining levels in a template class.
#9 jameswilliamogle Feb 23, 2009 15:48:28	See if you can use LA buyoff (Unearthed Arcana). Reduces your LA to nothing.
#10 Endarire Feb 23, 2009 18:26:52	You need not take levels in LA0 drow, hence its LA0. If you wanted, you could to gain the appropriate benefits.