Daggerspell - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Daggerspell

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
kurashu
Oct 04, 2008 2:27:50 So I noticed a nice little ability that Daggerspell Shapers get at level 2: Dagger Claws. Their dagger meld into their wildshaped form and their claws or slam attacks and these natural attacks assume the qualities of the daggers. Get as many daggers as you can that are completely decked out, choose two, wildshape, win.

So, here's my proposed build: Human Wildshape Ranger 5/Rogue 1/Master of Many Forms 7/Daggerspell Shaper 3/Warshaper 4

Required Feats: Weapon Focus (Dagger), Two Weapon Fighting, Endurance, Alterness. You get two of these feats for free and pick up the other two at level one with human feats. You only get 12HD of Wildshape but you can stay in Wildshape form for 15 hours. Alternatively, go MOMF 8/DSS 2, you get 13HD instead.

I've been trying to figure out how to get Extraordinary Wildshape and Enhanced Wildshape in the same build just for kicks and giggles, but doesn't seem to be working because of that darn 1d6 SA/Skirmish requirement on Daggerspell Shaper.

Anyways, thoughts, opinions? Am I too late for the party and this has already been played out?
#2
innabinder
Oct 04, 2008 9:31:21
So I noticed a nice little ability that Daggerspell Shapers get at level 2: Dagger Claws. Their dagger meld into their wildshaped form and their claws or slam attacks and these natural attacks assume the qualities of the daggers. Get as many daggers as you can that are completely decked out, choose two, wildshape, win.

So, here's my proposed build: Human Wildshape Ranger 5/Rogue 1/Master of Many Forms 7/Daggerspell Shaper 3/Warshaper 4

Required Feats: Weapon Focus (Dagger), Two Weapon Fighting, Endurance, Alterness. You get two of these feats for free and pick up the other two at level one with human feats. You only get 12HD of Wildshape but you can stay in Wildshape form for 15 hours. Alternatively, go MOMF 8/DSS 2, you get 13HD instead.

I've been trying to figure out how to get Extraordinary Wildshape and Enhanced Wildshape in the same build just for kicks and giggles, but doesn't seem to be working because of that darn 1d6 SA/Skirmish requirement on Daggerspell Shaper.

Anyways, thoughts, opinions? Am I too late for the party and this has already been played out?

Two Flaws will grant you two extra Feats. From what you've posted, no Flaws were used in the creation of this DsS. For added fun, stack up ways to get extra arms so that you can wield as many of your Daggers as possible, Pounce, and tear stuff to bits.
#3
reis
Oct 04, 2008 12:59:30 yeah but you can't make iterative attacks using natural weapons, so you're limited to two attacks per round, which isn't good if you're trying to optimize for sneak attack damage.
#4
innabinder
Oct 04, 2008 13:28:47
yeah but you can't make iterative attacks using natural weapons, so you're limited to two attacks per round, which isn't good if you're trying to optimize for sneak attack damage.

True, true. See also: Daggerspell Shaper as suboptimal wildshaping choice.
#5
bowensilverclaw1986
Oct 04, 2008 14:16:20 You don't get TWF for free with Wildshape Ranger.
#6
kurashu
Oct 04, 2008 17:01:45
You don't get TWF for free with Wildshape Ranger.

Crap, that's right. Well, two flaws still open up two feats.

Daggerspell Shaper is a suboptimal wildshaping class, that's why it's only a two level dip. Warshaper hurts wildshape a lot too, but people don't complain about that; though, I assume that's because you can take Warshaper 4/MOMF 10 without any issues. Anyways.

Any other ways to beef this up?
#7
direfrostwolf
Oct 05, 2008 23:14:54 well if you take 1 level dip in swordsage instead of rogue. The moment you get others 6 character levels beside the level of swordsage you can get the assassin's stance that gives you sneak attack 2d6 and several maneuvers, and rogue level would only give you a sneak attack 1d6. Also i read somewhere that if you are a dwarf you can tsake a 2 level dip in DeepWarden that gives you the ability to add you constitution mod to AC. If you wildshape into something with a lot of con you'd become a walking,magic clawed, ****** off fortress
#8
kurashu
Oct 05, 2008 23:48:24 Deepwarden and Fist of the Forest are often used together to superboost armor class since they both get consitution to armor class.

Also, using swordsage to get sneak attack to qualify for daggerspell is iffy to me. I'd rather stick to rogue or scout to be perfectly safe and to save a level as well.

Dwarf Ranger 5/Master of Many Forms 10/Scout 1/Deepwarden 2/Daggerspell Shaper 2 Would work. Or Warshaper 1/Fist of the Forest 1 in place of Deepwarden.
#9
direfrostwolf
Oct 06, 2008 12:42:40
Deepwarden and Fist of the Forest are often used together to superboost armor class since they both get consitution to armor class.

I didn't know Fist of the Forest had Con to AC. So sorry about that.:D
#10
kurashu
Oct 06, 2008 13:33:35
I didn't know Fist of the Forest had Con to AC. So sorry about that.:D

Nothing to be sorry about. They're good classes to mix with master of many forms, just tough to fit both into this build.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 kurashu Oct 04, 2008 2:27:50	So I noticed a nice little ability that Daggerspell Shapers get at level 2: Dagger Claws. Their dagger meld into their wildshaped form and their claws or slam attacks and these natural attacks assume the qualities of the daggers. Get as many daggers as you can that are completely decked out, choose two, wildshape, win. So, here's my proposed build: Human Wildshape Ranger 5/Rogue 1/Master of Many Forms 7/Daggerspell Shaper 3/Warshaper 4 Required Feats: Weapon Focus (Dagger), Two Weapon Fighting, Endurance, Alterness. You get two of these feats for free and pick up the other two at level one with human feats. You only get 12HD of Wildshape but you can stay in Wildshape form for 15 hours. Alternatively, go MOMF 8/DSS 2, you get 13HD instead. I've been trying to figure out how to get Extraordinary Wildshape and Enhanced Wildshape in the same build just for kicks and giggles, but doesn't seem to be working because of that darn 1d6 SA/Skirmish requirement on Daggerspell Shaper. Anyways, thoughts, opinions? Am I too late for the party and this has already been played out?
#2 innabinder Oct 04, 2008 9:31:21	So I noticed a nice little ability that Daggerspell Shapers get at level 2: Dagger Claws. Their dagger meld into their wildshaped form and their claws or slam attacks and these natural attacks assume the qualities of the daggers. Get as many daggers as you can that are completely decked out, choose two, wildshape, win. So, here's my proposed build: Human Wildshape Ranger 5/Rogue 1/Master of Many Forms 7/Daggerspell Shaper 3/Warshaper 4 Required Feats: Weapon Focus (Dagger), Two Weapon Fighting, Endurance, Alterness. You get two of these feats for free and pick up the other two at level one with human feats. You only get 12HD of Wildshape but you can stay in Wildshape form for 15 hours. Alternatively, go MOMF 8/DSS 2, you get 13HD instead. I've been trying to figure out how to get Extraordinary Wildshape and Enhanced Wildshape in the same build just for kicks and giggles, but doesn't seem to be working because of that darn 1d6 SA/Skirmish requirement on Daggerspell Shaper. Anyways, thoughts, opinions? Am I too late for the party and this has already been played out? Two Flaws will grant you two extra Feats. From what you've posted, no Flaws were used in the creation of this DsS. For added fun, stack up ways to get extra arms so that you can wield as many of your Daggers as possible, Pounce, and tear stuff to bits.
#3 reis Oct 04, 2008 12:59:30	yeah but you can't make iterative attacks using natural weapons, so you're limited to two attacks per round, which isn't good if you're trying to optimize for sneak attack damage.
#4 innabinder Oct 04, 2008 13:28:47	yeah but you can't make iterative attacks using natural weapons, so you're limited to two attacks per round, which isn't good if you're trying to optimize for sneak attack damage. True, true. See also: Daggerspell Shaper as suboptimal wildshaping choice.
#5 bowensilverclaw1986 Oct 04, 2008 14:16:20	You don't get TWF for free with Wildshape Ranger.
#6 kurashu Oct 04, 2008 17:01:45	You don't get TWF for free with Wildshape Ranger. Crap, that's right. Well, two flaws still open up two feats. Daggerspell Shaper is a suboptimal wildshaping class, that's why it's only a two level dip. Warshaper hurts wildshape a lot too, but people don't complain about that; though, I assume that's because you can take Warshaper 4/MOMF 10 without any issues. Anyways. Any other ways to beef this up?
#7 direfrostwolf Oct 05, 2008 23:14:54	well if you take 1 level dip in swordsage instead of rogue. The moment you get others 6 character levels beside the level of swordsage you can get the assassin's stance that gives you sneak attack 2d6 and several maneuvers, and rogue level would only give you a sneak attack 1d6. Also i read somewhere that if you are a dwarf you can tsake a 2 level dip in DeepWarden that gives you the ability to add you constitution mod to AC. If you wildshape into something with a lot of con you'd become a walking,magic clawed, ****** off fortress
#8 kurashu Oct 05, 2008 23:48:24	Deepwarden and Fist of the Forest are often used together to superboost armor class since they both get consitution to armor class. Also, using swordsage to get sneak attack to qualify for daggerspell is iffy to me. I'd rather stick to rogue or scout to be perfectly safe and to save a level as well. Dwarf Ranger 5/Master of Many Forms 10/Scout 1/Deepwarden 2/Daggerspell Shaper 2 Would work. Or Warshaper 1/Fist of the Forest 1 in place of Deepwarden.
#9 direfrostwolf Oct 06, 2008 12:42:40	Deepwarden and Fist of the Forest are often used together to superboost armor class since they both get consitution to armor class. I didn't know Fist of the Forest had Con to AC. So sorry about that.:D
#10 kurashu Oct 06, 2008 13:33:35	I didn't know Fist of the Forest had Con to AC. So sorry about that.:D Nothing to be sorry about. They're good classes to mix with master of many forms, just tough to fit both into this build.