Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 thedestroyerjake Jul 11, 2010 20:28:16	need help with damage calculation my dm wanted me to do some more damage output on my character so he had suggested this combo for me to be able to get a little more *umph*. Ive done my research but things still dont make sense. he's a human duskblade lv5 with a valorus scythe +2 ( dm said it was kosher to use as 2-handed weap)) Str 20 (+5 mod) now as fallows using scythe as a two handed weapon gives me 1.5x my str mod in damage calc power lunge: when attacking at the end of a charge i can recieve a 2.5x multiplier on my str power attack: take a penelty on attack to do 2x damage (x is penelty taken with  2 handed bonus) leap attack:  when making a Jump check for 10' i can get a +100% power attack bonus ( errata states that it would not be a multiplier but a addition of total damage from power attack) valorous weapon:When used in a charge, the valorous weapon deals double damage. what am i looking at for damage and how is it broken down so that i could make a spread sheet to input values?
#2 cycada Jul 11, 2010 20:43:43	Multiplying Sometimes a rule makes you multiply a number or a die roll. As long as you’re applying a single multiplier, multiply the number normally. When two or more multipliers apply to any abstract value (such as a modifier or a die roll), however, combine them into a single multiple, with each extra multiple adding 1 less than its value to the first multiple. Thus, a double (×2) and a double (×2) applied to the same number results in a triple (×3, because 2 + 1 = 3). When applying multipliers to real-world values (such as weight or distance), normal rules of math apply instead. A creature whose size doubles (thus multiplying its weight by 8) and then is turned to stone (which would multiply its weight by a factor of roughly 3) now weighs about 24 times normal, not 10 times normal. Similarly, a blinded creature attempting to negotiate difficult terrain would count each square as 4 squares (doubling the cost twice, for a total multiplier of ×4), rather than as 3 squares (adding 100% twice). Taken from the SRD.   Also, for further break-down, reference this thread under Attack Math for Any Build heading:  community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... ~Cy
#3 thedestroyerjake Jul 11, 2010 21:00:25	Multiplying Sometimes a rule makes you multiply a number or a die roll. As long as you’re applying a single multiplier, multiply the number normally. When two or more multipliers apply to any abstract value (such as a modifier or a die roll), however, combine them into a single multiple, with each extra multiple adding 1 less than its value to the first multiple. Thus, a double (×2) and a double (×2) applied to the same number results in a triple (×3, because 2 + 1 = 3). When applying multipliers to real-world values (such as weight or distance), normal rules of math apply instead. A creature whose size doubles (thus multiplying its weight by 8) and then is turned to stone (which would multiply its weight by a factor of roughly 3) now weighs about 24 times normal, not 10 times normal. Similarly, a blinded creature attempting to negotiate difficult terrain would count each square as 4 squares (doubling the cost twice, for a total multiplier of ×4), rather than as 3 squares (adding 100% twice). Taken from the SRD.   Also, for further break-down, reference this thread under Attack Math for Any Build heading:  community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... ~Cy ive seen this as well but i just need a visual of how it breaks down like a+b+c+ d  either way the way errata for the leap attack makes power attack penelty x4 (becuase of the wording +100%) one of the hook ups i get on this is that do i get the 1.5 for str for two handed then multiply that by2.5 or would it be 2.5 total on str bonus toward damage ive also read through the whole little red riding hood wall-o-text and still didnt understand what i would be getting for just these 4 feats
#4 thedestroyerjake Jul 11, 2010 21:43:01	bump for help
#5 cycada Jul 11, 2010 21:44:39	I'm not sure what your modifiers are but lets assume that we have the following modifiers: x2, x3, x2, x4, x1.5 Lets use x4 as the base since its the largest number. So x4+x2=x5. Why? x(4+(2-1)=x5 x4+x2+x3+x2+x1.5 = x(4+(2-1)+(3-1)+(2-1)+(1.5-1) = x8.5 if my math is correct. I'm not sure how to further break it down. This is all explained in the SRD ~Cy
#6 thedestroyerjake Jul 11, 2010 22:01:18	I'm not sure what your modifiers are but lets assume that we have the following modifiers: x2, x3, x2, x4, x1.5 ~Cy the modifiers are for different things str gets a 1.5x for two handed and power lunge would it be 17 ((5x1.5)x2.5) str mod  dmg  or just 12 (5x2.5) str mod dmg power attack from charge/leap   bab is 5  the way i see it is   +20 dmg ((5x2)+100%) then the valourous scythe (double dmamge given in a charge) does that mean i get  total damage doubled ((1d6 +17+20)x2)  ? 2d6 instead of base 1d6 with no other additional math?
#7 thedestroyerjake Jul 11, 2010 22:13:16	bump again for justice
#8 cycada Jul 11, 2010 22:21:19	You have 3 different sets of multipliers. One that modifies the bonus given for a high str score, and the second that gives a bonus for charging, and the last that alters the damage multiplier for PA. Leap attack isn't a multiplier, its a modifier for how Power attack damage is calculated. Your Charge multiplier effects total overall bonuses. Your modified str bonus, is multipied by your Power attack. Your total from that is then multiplied by the charge bonus. ~Cy P.s. I'm going to post the exact relevant quote from the LRRH thread, that I already suggested: Attack Math
#9 thedestroyerjake Jul 11, 2010 23:10:09	ok i understand a little better now even though you didnt directly answer my question. (i had to pick apart LRRH a little bit to finalize it. now do things like the feat powerful charge (+1d8 for medium creature) get multiplied by the charge multiplier? would also any of the bonus dice from knowledge devotion and arcane strike  get multiplied as well??
#10 phoenix00 Jul 11, 2010 23:26:17	(Somone correct me if this is wrong, but the relevant math should be this.)  (note this below math is assuming you sack all that bab to boost power attack) Damage is Weapon Damage (2d4)+ Strength, (Normal Two Handed Strength Multipler 1.5+Power Lunge 1)*5+ Power Attack is Penalty of 5 to attack*Two Handed Weapon*Leap Attack thus (5*2*2) Equals 2d4+(2.5*5)+(5*2*2) yielding 34.5 to 40.5 average 37.5 Now Valourous Doubles all that, thus your damage is 69 to 81 average 75. -------------------------------- Now at level 6 you will want to do two things. 1)  You can now take leadership and grab a cohort.  Grab a bard 1/marshal 1/crusader 2 or bard 1/marshal 1/warblade 2.  If the cohort has a cha of 18 and takes the minor aura of "over the top" then this boosts your base charge damage by 4 which valourous weapon doubles.  He can have a bardic music which gives you a +2 (masterwork musical instruement) or a +3 (with Badge of Valor).  Finally he can use the leading the charge stance which would grant another +3 to damage.  Thus total the cohort would give you 4+3+3 or a total of +10 to damage, which a valourous weapon would make +20 damage per attack. Feats 1 Chaos Music 3 Song of the White Raven 6 Song of the Heart 9 Words of Creation 2)  A level of barbarian would give you pounce thus allowing you to do two attacks with a charge, 3 with haste, and 4 if you do whirling frenzy (note the penalty to attack with whirling frenzy is canceled by the bonus strength).
#11 thedestroyerjake Jul 12, 2010 0:44:28	(Somone correct me if this is wrong, but the relevant math should be this.)  (note this below math is assuming you sack all that bab to boost power attack) Damage is Weapon Damage (2d4)+ Strength, (Normal Two Handed Strength Multipler 1.5+Power Lunge 1)*5+ Power Attack is Penalty of 5 to attack*Two Handed Weapon*Leap Attack thus (5*2*2) Equals 2d4+(2.5*5)+(5*2*2) yielding 34.5 to 40.5 average 37.5 Now Valourous Doubles all that, thus your damage is 69 to 81 average 75. -------------------------------- Now at level 6 you will want to do two things. 1)  You can now take leadership and grab a cohort.  Grab a bard 1/marshal 1/crusader 2 or bard 1/marshal 1/warblade 2.  If the cohort has a cha of 18 and takes the minor aura of "over the top" then this boosts your base charge damage by 4 which valourous weapon doubles.  He can have a bardic music which gives you a +2 (masterwork musical instruement) or a +3 (with Badge of Valor).  Finally he can use the leading the charge stance which would grant another +3 to damage.  Thus total the cohort would give you 4+3+3 or a total of +10 to damage, which a valourous weapon would make +20 damage per attack. Feats 1 Chaos Music 3 Song of the White Raven 6 Song of the Heart 9 Words of Creation 2)  A level of barbarian would give you pounce thus allowing you to do two attacks with a charge, 3 with haste, and 4 if you do whirling frenzy (note the penalty to attack with whirling frenzy is canceled by the bonus strength). do things like the feat powerful charge (+1d8 for medium creature) get multiplied by the charge multiplier? would also any of the bonus dice from knowledge devotion and arcane strike  get multiplied as well??
#12 phoenix00 Jul 12, 2010 10:46:04	would also any of the bonus dice from knowledge devotion and arcane strike  get multiplied as well?? To my understanding yes.  Now Knowledge Devotion is bonus damage not dice, and arcane strike is bonus dice. Now a critical hit is different than a charge.  With a critical hit only the bonus damage not the bonus dice gets multipled.  This is an exception to the normal rules. www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsincomba...