My buddy and me re making new characters for a new adventure, because the campagne is near to end. We wanna use the combo red wizard /thayan knigth; he is the RW to give me insane buff. For roleplaying reasons, i wanna make a character like the movie of Jet Li "Danny the Dog". Basically im his watching and attack dog (with collar included), and i wanna use the ToB because i want optimize the meele fighting; this is my project of build:
Warblade 1/Barbarian 1/ Warblade 6/ Thayan Knight 2/ Frenzied Berserker 10
The warblade is focussed on tiger claw maneuvers (for roleplaying, the dog you know) and use 2WF.
Any advice, critic or opinion?????
I gotta say though, there is little synergy in your build. FB is all about using a big 2hander and getting sexy PA multipliers from it. Tiger Claw weapons are almost all light weapons, meaning you can't even use PA if you wanted to. There are probably a lot better PRCs out there (Dervish/Bloodclaw Master) or simply take straight Warblade levels to get into the 7th and 8th level maneuvers. That's where the real money is.
Regardless, good luck! Post a sample build and we'll be more than happy to critique.
I'm guessing your DM is allowing you to use IHS to shrug off Frenzy?
In general, this combo is used because the Thayan Knight automatically fails saves vs. the Red Wizard's spells. So the wiz can just hit him with a Suggestion spell (or something similar), and "turn off" his frenzy.
The main problems with this are 1) the FB has to go around without a Mind Blank or other mental protections, and usually has a low will save, leaving him vulnerable to enemy caster control, and 2) the Red Wiz has to "waste" spell slots to control him.
I'd suggest also giving him a decent chance of breaking out of his frenzy on his own (good Will save somehow, look at other FB threads). Then the wizard won't have to waste his spellslots as often, and the FB won't be as vulnerable to enemies.
Thematically, my concern is that Thayans are civilized. Evil as Hell, but more dignified and less prone to chaotic expressions of emtion, combat or otherwise. Mulani humans aren't as outspoken or prone to acting out. This is another reason they despise the Rashemi neighbors up North. The barbarians of Rashemen as it were, being largely crude and regarded as animals.
Thayans are heavilly regimented and organized, it's just their infighting keeps them from fully organizing and reaching their true potential.
But I understand the master & servant motif you're gunning for here. Makes for really good RP and party cohesion on that end anyway. It's just when you think "knight", a degree of dignity and formal conduct come to mind, hence all the Thayan specific niceties. A chaotic engine of destruction doesn't completely fit w/ it in all respects, though I could totally see a tool of the zulkirs point at their enemy, buff said knight w/ some spells, and go "Get 'em." What to do what to do.
I don't see any thematic problems at all. Most of the Thayan slaves are Rashemi, or are at least descended from them. This "Knight" could be one of those that has been "trained".
Believe me, they're there, but power vs. good roleplaying has always been an issue. This isn't a Stormwind thing either so much as flow of good storytelling.
Most of Thay is Rashemi, in terms of human lineage, not nationality. That does not make them from Rashemen, their bitter enemy. Iraq is laregly Shiite despite a Sunni minority previously holding all the power. Iran is laregly Shiite as well, but they fought bitterly from '80-'88. Same parallel.
You have confused the 2 in terms of heritage and nationality.
Yes, a frenzied berserker could work just fine (and be exploited w/ the creative loophole), however, given that Red Wizards hold all the power, it might be construed as terribly risky to even risk the remote chance that said domitor's knight could turn on them in post frenzy fallout. Balance of power shifts incredibly in that event and leaves the Red Wizard suddenly unprepared.
Plus there is the matter of barred schools. If you don't have access to Enchantment, well, you better get access to Fly or Invisibility or something that can insure your safety shoudl your knight turn on you.
Danny did turn on the master though (can't remember the Brit guy's name, but he's a good actor), however, this was after he'd been humanized, so, hard to say. Excellent drama opportunities in terms of conflict resolution, alignment discrepancies, etc. For stuff like this, in game as a DM, I'll say, "you get Best Supporting Actor", often worthy of independent XP awards.
This could be a really cool/fun campaign for you, just don't let the build dictate your every whim. It's important truly, but if he's got no soul, then it's pointless. Danny, as it were, was bursting at the seams.
I played a Thayan Knight (Lords of Darkness, not Comp Warrior) while my g/f was a Red Wizard once. Really visceral, very real, not powergamey. Everyone kept saying, "Oh, you coulda' had so much more power and bla bla bla." Funny as we were the only ones left standing. It was one of the better campaigns and fit like a glove.
FB feat prereqs did pi$$ me off a bit, but I bought Intimidating Rage cuz' I had to, thusly, I used it. And truth be told, it wasn't that bad. Coupled w/ Daunting Presence (Libris Mortis) or some of the Intimidate skill tricks (Comp. Scoundrel), you might have something very compelling there. I'd definetly look into it. Destructive Rage though, I never used sadly. Adamantite weapons make short work of any object attacks and/or Sunders
.Stances in rage? I'm sure a few are okay, the more violent ones to be sure. Not terribly familiar w/ ToB, but it has promise. As long as it's not requiring finesse, tact, alot of thinking, you should be fine. No biggie really.
FrzBrsk sits very well w/ the "Danny the Dog" or "Unleashed" motif if you will, quite well in fact. There are many ways in fact you can work it, so let your imagination roll, but RP-wise, you coudl expect a high degree of suspicion and perhaps alot of derision in Thay, perhaps sympathy though in more benign lands. It all boils down to the DM and his committment to authenticity, realism, whatever.
Danny did turn on the master though (can't remember the Brit guy's name, but he's a good actor), however, this was after he'd been humanized, so, hard to say. Excellent drama opportunities in terms of conflict resolution, alignment discrepancies, etc. For stuff like this, in game as a DM, I'll say, "you get Best Supporting Actor", often worthy of independent XP awards.
This could be a really cool/fun campaign for you, just don't let the build dictate your every whim. It's important truly, but if he's got no soul, then it's pointless. Danny, as it were, was bursting at the seams.
I played a Thayan Knight (Lords of Darkness, not Comp Warrior) while my g/f was a Red Wizard once. Really visceral, very real, not powergamey. Everyone kept saying, "Oh, you coulda' had so much more power and bla bla bla." Funny as we were the only ones left standing. It was one of the better campaigns and fit like a glove.
FB feat prereqs did pi$$ me off a bit, but I bought Intimidating Rage cuz' I had to, thusly, I used it. And truth be told, it wasn't that bad. Coupled w/ Daunting Presence (Libris Mortis) or some of the Intimidate skill tricks (Comp. Scoundrel), you might have something very compelling there. I'd definetly look into it. Destructive Rage though, I never used sadly. Adamantite weapons make short work of any object attacks and/or Sunders
Stances in rage? I'm sure a few are okay, the more violent ones to be sure. Not terribly familiar w/ ToB, but it has promise. As long as it's not requiring finesse, tact, alot of thinking, you should be fine. No biggie really.
Yeah, the issue is roleplyng vs power, but another issue is the teamwork, with buffs, abjurations and others, nothing can stop us.To reduce the cost of feats, i can get 2 leves of ranger and another of fighter, and less of FB, in fact i need only one to get power and roleplaying, if possible, the last levels can be bloodclaw master. Awesome, this the first time when i see a char with too much levels for a good rolplay than power haha.
Yeah, the issue is roleplyng vs power, but another issue is the teamwork, with buffs, abjurations and others, nothing can stop us.To reduce the cost of feats, i can get 2 leves of ranger and another of fighter, and less of FB, in fact i need only one to get power and roleplaying, if possible, the last levels can be bloodclaw master. Awesome, this the first time when i see a char with too much levels for a good rolplay than power haha.
Check out Complete Scoundrel's legendary locations-- I believe Intimidating Rage is one of the feats you can get out of the otyugh pit.
Believe me, they're there, but power vs. good roleplaying has always been an issue. This isn't a Stormwind thing either so much as flow of good storytelling.
Most of Thay is Rashemi, in terms of human lineage, not nationality. That does not make them from Rashemen, their bitter enemy. Iraq is laregly Shiite despite a Sunni minority previously holding all the power. Iran is laregly Shiite as well, but they fought bitterly from '80-'88. Same parallel.
You have confused the 2 in terms of heritage and nationality.
I haven't confused anything, and I'm not ignorant of the relationship between Thay, Rashemen, and Thay's slave-stock. I just disagree with you. I ran a campaign set in that area for a while, and have played characters from there in a few games. If Rashemi are inherently inclined to be berzerkers "genetically", then Thayan slaves used as shock troopers or "cannon fodder" would be, also.
I don't find it a stretch at all that a Red Wizard would have a "pet" berzerker as a bodyguard. They are sick, twisted bastards who would enjoy the "irony" of it. They are also arrogant enough to think they would be able to "break" him enough to not worry about him turning on them. The fact that the berzerker is mentally unstable and occasionally goes crazy and kills an ally in his "bloodlust" would fit perfectly, IMO.
I haven't confused anything, and I'm not ignorant of the relationship between Thay, Rashemen, and Thay's slave-stock. I just disagree with you.
Super, I never claimed otherwise.
I ran a campaign set in that area for a while, and have played characters from there in a few games.
That's great...for your campaign and friends. If and when Ed Greenwood gives you an endorsement, etc., I'll definetly concede to that end, but this sort of creative license rests w/ the DM, you in this case. It's not canon so much as an interpretation and there's nothign wrong w/ that, just a matter of taste is all.
If Rashemi are inherently inclined to be berzerkers "genetically", then Thayan slaves used as shock troopers or "cannon fodder" would be, also.
Before we differed as a matter of taste, now I find legitimate fault; facts/theory(?) are wrong here. No one is genetically predisposed to "berzerker" ever. True, the land and culture seems to suggest Barbarian as a favored class (it can't, but bear w/ me) if you will in that its rustic, steeped in mysticism, and lacking higher venues of training & martial discipline, high skill in terms of feats & such (Ftrs, etc) is defaulted for pure strength & aggression (Brb). Their national tradition just pushes for it moreso, not genetic. ie)Most of Thay is Rashemi (human) and Barbarians are rare there, save for the monstrous variety of mercenaries, namely gnolls, etc.
Thayan slaves could very well be barbarians sure, cannon fodder, definetly as they are expendable given national mindset for "lesser races". This is party to blame for their failed military conquests though, but more suitable for another thread. But to allege Rashemi barbarians from Rashemem are the same as Rashemi conscripts in Thay's military is illogical.
They're too independent, better suited to menial labor where there's less risk of open revolt w/ easy access to arms. That is, there is no shortage of other slaves and/or mercenaries of monstrous origin (orcs, gnolls), undead, their own Mulani/Rashemi citizens & slaves, Theskians, etc.
I don't find it a stretch at all that a Red Wizard would have a "pet" berzerker as a bodyguard.
I don't either, hence my previous posts. Quite simply though, I think it would be frowned upon to enlist a Frenzied Berserker as your Knight in that express loyalty & self-sacrifice are their codes & edicts for the host magi (the important one in this relationship) and it is heavilly undermined if at any given point the magi cannot control his vessel. It's terribly risky given the awesome dmg potential vs. a d4 HD type that might not even see it coming.
PCs are often the exception of course so I wouldn't forbid it, just find it to be quite rare in Thay largely. Easy to find, equip, and train a new Knight, hard to find, educate, and indoctrinate a new Red Wizard.
They are also arrogant enough to think they would be able to "break" him enough to not worry about him turning on them. The fact that the berzerker is mentally unstable and occasionally goes crazy and kills an ally in his "bloodlust" would fit perfectly, IMO.
Only a fool would presume as such. Granted, in many of the stories, like pretty much any fairy tale in the classical sense, the villain always underestimates plot device 'x' and it is his undoing. I'm trying to give R_R_Raskolnikov the benefit of the doubt rather than playing another "default arrogant, blinded-by-ambition-Red Wizard".
Allies can be disposable depending on alignment, but how much are you willing to wager on your own life in the drop of a hat?