Daring Outlaw build - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Daring Outlaw build

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
droma
Mar 23, 2008 22:25:20 10th lvl 25 point buy core and completes. Only feats from ToB are allowed class levels are not. Lion totem barbarian not allowed.

Human
str 11
dex 18 (including 2 points from lvling)
con 14
int 14
wis 8
cha 8

1 barb - TWF, imp buckler defense
2 rogue
3 swash - craven
4 swash
5 rogue
6 rogue - daring outlaw
7 swash
8 fighter - martial study(cloak of deception)
9 swash - ITWF
10 fighter - martial stance(island of blades/assassins stance?)
11 swash
12 swash - shadow blade
13 swash
14 swash
15 swash - staggering strike

Looking for feat suggestions for right now up to lvl15, I think the build is pretty solid as is though. Starting lvl is 10th like I said up above so if there is a way to tweak it out up to that point I'm all for it. I'm going to try and beg and plead for the barbarian pounce variant but this DM has never allowed it before so I don't hold out much hope. Our group tends to be more combat oriented so skills aren't a priority for me thus no able learner.

Thanks for any input you may have.
#2
ceramicweasel
Mar 23, 2008 23:55:32 Unfortunately, Shadow Blade requires a Shadow Hand stance, which in turn requires a Shadow Hand maneuver, so you'll need to rearrange those feats.

Improved Initiative could be a good choice, since you don't have Island of Blades to create sneak attacking opportunities. Also, Staggering Strike from Complete Adventurer is a favourite of mine.

You won't miss pounce so much with a Belt of Battle. Take a move action as a swift action 3 times a day. Throw in some Boots of Speed and you'll be good to go.
#3
droma
Mar 24, 2008 0:33:05
Unfortunately, Shadow Blade requires a Shadow Hand stance, which in turn requires a Shadow Hand maneuver, so you'll need to rearrange those feats.

Improved Initiative could be a good choice, since you don't have Island of Blades to create sneak attacking opportunities. Also, Staggering Strike from Complete Adventurer is a favourite of mine.

You won't miss pounce so much with a Belt of Battle. Take a move action as a swift action 3 times a day. Throw in some Boots of Speed and you'll be good to go.

Just double checked shadow blade the pre-req is one shadow hand maneuver. As for imp init, I plan on getting most of my sneak attacks through flanking or cloak of deception and with 50ft movement after items getting to a flanking spot isn't a problem. I'd have to drop +2 enhancement bonus's on my weapons to be able to afford the belt of battle but it may be worth it.

Staggering strike looks good, not sure if I want it to start with but I could definitely pick it up at 12.

Edit: double double checked shadow blade, table says maneuver text says stance.
#4
ceramicweasel
Mar 24, 2008 1:13:58
Edit: double double checked shadow blade, table says maneuver text says stance.

Given you need to be in a Shadow Hand stance to gain the benefit, I'd say the table prerequisite is a mistake.
#5
NiteCyper
Mar 24, 2008 6:31:04 There's also the Swift Hunter option (Scout). I hope you're taking either the Whirling Frenzy, Ferocity or that other variant instead of Rage. Rage doesn't help Rogues much?

I hope you find a reliable way of catching your opponents flatfooted. Generally, in a build like yours, it's best to work a build around a Weapons-style, Ability score (INT and DEX, yeah!), a feat tree and I guess Daring Outlaw works as well. Oh, another build is the AoO beast. If you can jack up your AC and then get attacks that equal your DEX mod and deal DEX damage and whatnot.
#6
droma
Mar 24, 2008 17:25:17 First and last bump.
#7
stickboy2323
Mar 24, 2008 18:22:43 If your DM lets you use LT barbarian all right but otherwise I'd say ditch the barbarian level. Why do you have it? HPs & skills? You don't really have rage-friendly stats. Whirling frenzy might not be too bad though. If you are dead set on keeping it take the 2nd level too and another level of rogue for Improved Uncanny Dodge.
#8
droma
Mar 24, 2008 19:10:09
If your DM lets you use LT barbarian all right but otherwise I'd say ditch the barbarian level. Why do you have it? HPs & skills? You don't really have rage-friendly stats. Whirling frenzy might not be too bad though. If you are dead set on keeping it take the 2nd level too and another level of rogue for Improved Uncanny Dodge.

I was planning on going that route but its main purpose is the shield proficiency so I can get imp buckler defense. Another level of swashbuckler wouldn't have picked me up another SA dice anyway so the extra AC and the fast movement are nice.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 droma Mar 23, 2008 22:25:20	10th lvl 25 point buy core and completes. Only feats from ToB are allowed class levels are not. Lion totem barbarian not allowed. Human str 11 dex 18 (including 2 points from lvling) con 14 int 14 wis 8 cha 8 1 barb - TWF, imp buckler defense 2 rogue 3 swash - craven 4 swash 5 rogue 6 rogue - daring outlaw 7 swash 8 fighter - martial study(cloak of deception) 9 swash - ITWF 10 fighter - martial stance(island of blades/assassins stance?) 11 swash 12 swash - shadow blade 13 swash 14 swash 15 swash - staggering strike Looking for feat suggestions for right now up to lvl15, I think the build is pretty solid as is though. Starting lvl is 10th like I said up above so if there is a way to tweak it out up to that point I'm all for it. I'm going to try and beg and plead for the barbarian pounce variant but this DM has never allowed it before so I don't hold out much hope. Our group tends to be more combat oriented so skills aren't a priority for me thus no able learner. Thanks for any input you may have.
#2 ceramicweasel Mar 23, 2008 23:55:32	Unfortunately, Shadow Blade requires a Shadow Hand stance, which in turn requires a Shadow Hand maneuver, so you'll need to rearrange those feats. Improved Initiative could be a good choice, since you don't have Island of Blades to create sneak attacking opportunities. Also, Staggering Strike from Complete Adventurer is a favourite of mine. You won't miss pounce so much with a Belt of Battle. Take a move action as a swift action 3 times a day. Throw in some Boots of Speed and you'll be good to go.
#3 droma Mar 24, 2008 0:33:05	Unfortunately, Shadow Blade requires a Shadow Hand stance, which in turn requires a Shadow Hand maneuver, so you'll need to rearrange those feats. Improved Initiative could be a good choice, since you don't have Island of Blades to create sneak attacking opportunities. Also, Staggering Strike from Complete Adventurer is a favourite of mine. You won't miss pounce so much with a Belt of Battle. Take a move action as a swift action 3 times a day. Throw in some Boots of Speed and you'll be good to go. Just double checked shadow blade the pre-req is one shadow hand maneuver. As for imp init, I plan on getting most of my sneak attacks through flanking or cloak of deception and with 50ft movement after items getting to a flanking spot isn't a problem. I'd have to drop +2 enhancement bonus's on my weapons to be able to afford the belt of battle but it may be worth it. Staggering strike looks good, not sure if I want it to start with but I could definitely pick it up at 12. Edit: double double checked shadow blade, table says maneuver text says stance.
#4 ceramicweasel Mar 24, 2008 1:13:58	Edit: double double checked shadow blade, table says maneuver text says stance. Given you need to be in a Shadow Hand stance to gain the benefit, I'd say the table prerequisite is a mistake.
#5 NiteCyper Mar 24, 2008 6:31:04	There's also the Swift Hunter option (Scout). I hope you're taking either the Whirling Frenzy, Ferocity or that other variant instead of Rage. Rage doesn't help Rogues much? I hope you find a reliable way of catching your opponents flatfooted. Generally, in a build like yours, it's best to work a build around a Weapons-style, Ability score (INT and DEX, yeah!), a feat tree and I guess Daring Outlaw works as well. Oh, another build is the AoO beast. If you can jack up your AC and then get attacks that equal your DEX mod and deal DEX damage and whatnot.
#6 droma Mar 24, 2008 17:25:17	First and last bump.
#7 stickboy2323 Mar 24, 2008 18:22:43	If your DM lets you use LT barbarian all right but otherwise I'd say ditch the barbarian level. Why do you have it? HPs & skills? You don't really have rage-friendly stats. Whirling frenzy might not be too bad though. If you are dead set on keeping it take the 2nd level too and another level of rogue for Improved Uncanny Dodge.
#8 droma Mar 24, 2008 19:10:09	If your DM lets you use LT barbarian all right but otherwise I'd say ditch the barbarian level. Why do you have it? HPs & skills? You don't really have rage-friendly stats. Whirling frenzy might not be too bad though. If you are dead set on keeping it take the 2nd level too and another level of rogue for Improved Uncanny Dodge. I was planning on going that route but its main purpose is the shield proficiency so I can get imp buckler defense. Another level of swashbuckler wouldn't have picked me up another SA dice anyway so the extra AC and the fast movement are nice.