Death From Above! (???) - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Death From Above! (???)

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
gyorscalfneh
Jul 30, 2008 9:07:40 I'm working on a build that has undergone numerous revisions, and now I've found something that I almost feel satisfied with.

Behold Durian, the stinky spiked-armor wearing assassin of doom!

stats - 32 pb
STR 14
DEX 16
CON 14
INT 16
WIS 6
CHA 10

advance 2 int, 3 dex

Feat Rogue 2/ Barbarian 1/ Ranger 2/ Swordsage 1*/ Dark Hunter 5/ Assassin 9
*child of shadows for the stance; I know **** about ToB overall, though, so my choice of maneuvers is probably less than optimal

1 - FRog - Keen Intellect, Blind-Fight, Battle Jump
2 - Rgr -
3 - Rgr - Combat style (twf), Darkstalker
4 - Brb (lion totem) - Dodge (f: Uncontrollable Rage), Mobility (f: Blind Rage)
5 - Swrd -
6 - FRog - Shadow Blade
7 - Asn -
8 - Asn -
9 - DH - Craven
10 - DH -
11 - DH -
12 - DH - ITWF
13 - DH -
14 - Asn -
15 - Asn - Elusive Target
16 - Asn -
17 - Asn -
18 - Asn - Gloom Razor
19 - Asn -
20 - Asn -

Using fractional bab & saves, so if I understand the rules correctly, my bab ends up at 17, and my saves suck

The idea is that the char falls/jumps on SA-vulnerable things and then full attacks them. Pounce also has nice synergy with the child of shadows stance.

While keeping to the flavor of the angry, pouncing melee viable assassin, how would you guys optimize this?
#2
davethemagicweasel
Jul 30, 2008 10:39:17 I'd use the Roofjumper feat from Cityscape - lets you execute a falling charge, dealing, +1d6 damage per 10ft you fall.
#3
gyorscalfneh
Jul 30, 2008 11:36:31
I'd use the Roofjumper feat from Cityscape - lets you execute a falling charge, dealing, +1d6 damage per 10ft you fall.

That would certainly fit thematically, but I'd need a way to consistently drop from 20 or more feet - jumping that high would literally require an epic skill check. Plus the ability burns up two feats. Falling damage would also be an issue.
#4
sinfire_titan
Jul 30, 2008 11:52:38 Shape Soulmeld (Airstep Sandals) and two points of essentia gets you a 30ft fly speed. Having Dragonborn wings would prevent the falling damage (or there is a feat that gives you the same kind of wings, its in FC1).
#5
gyorscalfneh
Jul 30, 2008 22:07:28 I'm not familiar with how essentia works, but I can look into it. Dragonborn isn't really an option because I'm already playing this character (actually an earlier variant that I'm going to have to retrain/rebuild), and his alignment is chaotic evil. But your point is well taken - get a fly speed.

To be honest, I'm more concerned with the other features of the build. I am not trying to maximize my damage on a falling pounce. If I could conveniently work in more damage, though, that would be wonderful. My current calculations on damage from a falling, raging naked pounce are:
((4 str + 4 dex + 3 avg short sword) * 2) + 18 avg SA + 20 craven = 60 * 4 = 240;
((2 str + 4 dex + 3 avg short sword) * 2) + 18 avg SA + 20 craven = 56 * 3 =
168
240 + 168 = 408

Obviously that would be a lot more if I could fit in gtwf, not to mention extra attacks from a weapon of speed or haste. Fitting in three levels of swashbuckler would be fantastic, but I'm not sure how to do it.

I'm also unsure about the stacking of sneak attack. I would never allow this as dm, and I'm not going to do it, but the description for Battle Jump says that you deal double damage with a melee weapon; the description for sneak attack says that you deal "extra damage". SA is not multiplied in the case of a crit because it is "extra damage dice". My understanding of the rules is vague and incomplete in many areas, but I don't see anything that would prevent me from doubling sneak attack damage as well. Just curious as to what yuns' all take is on this.

I guess this is difficult because I don't seem to have a clear focus for Durian, so I'll put it out there as plainly as I can:

If you were to build an assassin character that had to have a bab of at least 16 and at least one level of barbarian for pounce, how would you do it?

Alternatively, you could just critique the build as it is - for example, "Elusive Target is not a great feat choice because of XXXX; the XXXX feat would actually be a much better choice because of XXXX" or "If you were to instead dip into XXXX then you could keep XXXX but get XXX - much more synergetic!"

I've been working on this build for so long, and I really kind of hate it now, but I can't give up until I'm satisfied with it! I have a goliath fighter that I'd like to play, but I already switched characters once early in the campaign, so I have to stick with this one.

rant rant rant
#6
gorfnad_the_shiznit
Jul 30, 2008 23:03:11 The feats Raptor School, Speed of Thought, and Up the Walls would thematically fit with this build. Raptor School would probably give you the most options though.
#7
gyorscalfneh
Jul 31, 2008 0:16:45 EDIT: Did anyone get the Durian joke or was it just not funny?

It's unfortunate that there's no such thing as a psychic feat rogue.

stats -
STR 12
DEX 16
CON 14
INT 16
WIS 13
CHA 5

advance 2 int, 3 dex

Psychic Rogue 2/ Barbarian 1/ Ranger 2/ Swordsage 1*/ Dark Hunter 5/ Assassin 8/ Fighter or Psywar 1

1 - PR - Blind-Fight, Battle Jump
2 - Rgr -
3 - Rgr - Combat style (twf), Darkstalker
4 - Brb (lion totem) - Up The Walls (f: Uncontrollable Rage), Craven (f: Blind Rage)
5 - Swrd -
6 - PR - Shadow Blade
7 - Asn -
8 - Asn -
9 - DH - Raptor School
10 - DH -
11 - DH -
12 - DH - ITWF
13 - DH -
14 - Asn -
15 - Asn - Speed of Thought
16 - Asn -
17 - Asn -
18 - Asn - Gloom Razor
19 - Asn -
20 - Ftr (or psywar) - GTWF

This is an interesting skeleton, though I lose one DC of death attack and investing ranks in social skills as I had initially planned becomes pointless. Though infiltration is not so much of an issue when you can walk up walls.
Psychic rogue powers are another neat int synergy, though at this point I wonder about the usefulness of death attack. Either the enemy is going to die because of pure damage and the DA attempt is wasted, or DA likely fails. I wanted to keep Track for flavor reasons, so dark hunter looked like a great prc, but now...ehhhhhh, might as well retrain it and then Durian isn't Durian anymore.
As awesome as Raptor school is thematically, maybe ability focus (death attack) instead, since those damage bonuses only apply on the first attack.
#8
sinfire_titan
Jul 31, 2008 8:52:20 I made a post a long while ago that explains how the entire Incarnum system works. If you search the posts in my profile, you should find it on page 6 or page 9.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 gyorscalfneh Jul 30, 2008 9:07:40	I'm working on a build that has undergone numerous revisions, and now I've found something that I almost feel satisfied with. Behold Durian, the stinky spiked-armor wearing assassin of doom! stats - 32 pb STR 14 DEX 16 CON 14 INT 16 WIS 6 CHA 10 advance 2 int, 3 dex Feat Rogue 2/ Barbarian 1/ Ranger 2/ Swordsage 1/ Dark Hunter 5/ Assassin 9 child of shadows for the stance; I know **** about ToB overall, though, so my choice of maneuvers is probably less than optimal 1 - FRog - Keen Intellect, Blind-Fight, Battle Jump 2 - Rgr - 3 - Rgr - Combat style (twf), Darkstalker 4 - Brb (lion totem) - Dodge (f: Uncontrollable Rage), Mobility (f: Blind Rage) 5 - Swrd - 6 - FRog - Shadow Blade 7 - Asn - 8 - Asn - 9 - DH - Craven 10 - DH - 11 - DH - 12 - DH - ITWF 13 - DH - 14 - Asn - 15 - Asn - Elusive Target 16 - Asn - 17 - Asn - 18 - Asn - Gloom Razor 19 - Asn - 20 - Asn - Using fractional bab & saves, so if I understand the rules correctly, my bab ends up at 17, and my saves suck The idea is that the char falls/jumps on SA-vulnerable things and then full attacks them. Pounce also has nice synergy with the child of shadows stance. While keeping to the flavor of the angry, pouncing melee viable assassin, how would you guys optimize this?
#2 davethemagicweasel Jul 30, 2008 10:39:17	I'd use the Roofjumper feat from Cityscape - lets you execute a falling charge, dealing, +1d6 damage per 10ft you fall.
#3 gyorscalfneh Jul 30, 2008 11:36:31	I'd use the Roofjumper feat from Cityscape - lets you execute a falling charge, dealing, +1d6 damage per 10ft you fall. That would certainly fit thematically, but I'd need a way to consistently drop from 20 or more feet - jumping that high would literally require an epic skill check. Plus the ability burns up two feats. Falling damage would also be an issue.
#4 sinfire_titan Jul 30, 2008 11:52:38	Shape Soulmeld (Airstep Sandals) and two points of essentia gets you a 30ft fly speed. Having Dragonborn wings would prevent the falling damage (or there is a feat that gives you the same kind of wings, its in FC1).
#5 gyorscalfneh Jul 30, 2008 22:07:28	I'm not familiar with how essentia works, but I can look into it. Dragonborn isn't really an option because I'm already playing this character (actually an earlier variant that I'm going to have to retrain/rebuild), and his alignment is chaotic evil. But your point is well taken - get a fly speed. To be honest, I'm more concerned with the other features of the build. I am not trying to maximize my damage on a falling pounce. If I could conveniently work in more damage, though, that would be wonderful. My current calculations on damage from a falling, raging naked pounce are: ((4 str + 4 dex + 3 avg short sword) * 2) + 18 avg SA + 20 craven = 60 * 4 = 240; ((2 str + 4 dex + 3 avg short sword) * 2) + 18 avg SA + 20 craven = 56 * 3 = 168 240 + 168 = 408 Obviously that would be a lot more if I could fit in gtwf, not to mention extra attacks from a weapon of speed or haste. Fitting in three levels of swashbuckler would be fantastic, but I'm not sure how to do it. I'm also unsure about the stacking of sneak attack. I would never allow this as dm, and I'm not going to do it, but the description for Battle Jump says that you deal double damage with a melee weapon; the description for sneak attack says that you deal "extra damage". SA is not multiplied in the case of a crit because it is "extra damage dice". My understanding of the rules is vague and incomplete in many areas, but I don't see anything that would prevent me from doubling sneak attack damage as well. Just curious as to what yuns' all take is on this. I guess this is difficult because I don't seem to have a clear focus for Durian, so I'll put it out there as plainly as I can: *If you were to build an assassin character that had to have a bab of at least 16 and at least one level of barbarian for pounce, how would you do it?* Alternatively, you could just critique the build as it is - for example, "Elusive Target is not a great feat choice because of XXXX; the XXXX feat would actually be a much better choice because of XXXX" or "If you were to instead dip into XXXX then you could keep XXXX but get XXX - much more synergetic!" I've been working on this build for so long, and I really kind of hate it now, but I can't give up until I'm satisfied with it! I have a goliath fighter that I'd like to play, but I already switched characters once early in the campaign, so I have to stick with this one. rant rant rant
#6 gorfnad_the_shiznit Jul 30, 2008 23:03:11	The feats Raptor School, Speed of Thought, and Up the Walls would thematically fit with this build. Raptor School would probably give you the most options though.
#7 gyorscalfneh Jul 31, 2008 0:16:45	EDIT: Did anyone get the Durian joke or was it just not funny? It's unfortunate that there's no such thing as a psychic feat rogue. stats - STR 12 DEX 16 CON 14 INT 16 WIS 13 CHA 5 advance 2 int, 3 dex Psychic Rogue 2/ Barbarian 1/ Ranger 2/ Swordsage 1*/ Dark Hunter 5/ Assassin 8/ Fighter or Psywar 1 1 - PR - Blind-Fight, Battle Jump 2 - Rgr - 3 - Rgr - Combat style (twf), Darkstalker 4 - Brb (lion totem) - Up The Walls (f: Uncontrollable Rage), Craven (f: Blind Rage) 5 - Swrd - 6 - PR - Shadow Blade 7 - Asn - 8 - Asn - 9 - DH - Raptor School 10 - DH - 11 - DH - 12 - DH - ITWF 13 - DH - 14 - Asn - 15 - Asn - Speed of Thought 16 - Asn - 17 - Asn - 18 - Asn - Gloom Razor 19 - Asn - 20 - Ftr (or psywar) - GTWF This is an interesting skeleton, though I lose one DC of death attack and investing ranks in social skills as I had initially planned becomes pointless. Though infiltration is not so much of an issue when you can walk up walls. Psychic rogue powers are another neat int synergy, though at this point I wonder about the usefulness of death attack. Either the enemy is going to die because of pure damage and the DA attempt is wasted, or DA likely fails. I wanted to keep Track for flavor reasons, so dark hunter looked like a great prc, but now...ehhhhhh, might as well retrain it and then Durian isn't Durian anymore. As awesome as Raptor school is thematically, maybe ability focus (death attack) instead, since those damage bonuses only apply on the first attack.
#8 sinfire_titan Jul 31, 2008 8:52:20	I made a post a long while ago that explains how the entire Incarnum system works. If you search the posts in my profile, you should find it on page 6 or page 9.