| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| #1el_magnifecoApr 11, 2008 9:40:48 | Hey guys, my next character is gonna be a Dwarven Crusader going into Deepstone Sentinel, but i was thinking of putting in some levels of Dwarven Defender to enhance the characters defensive abilities. Im having trouble finding a good lvl balance for the 3 classes, any suggestions would be helpful and much appreciated. Also any other class or feat suggestions that would help him become an immovable son of a would be great.If it helps the character is going to be a heavy armoured, sword and board style combatant. Thanks in advance. |
| #2pfootiApr 11, 2008 10:34:47 | I'd suggest Crusader 14 / Deepstone Sentinel 6 / Dwarven Defender 0, personally. Use DS to delay Crusuader-14 until a bit later in the progression. Just 1 level will do it, actually, since if you're IL15 when you take Cru14, you can get the Immortal Fortitude stance, and not dying is pretty keen. I'd wait until after Cru-8 to do anything with DS, as well, since you want to get Thicket of Blades ASAP. So, something like Cru8/[DS1/Cru1]x6 would probably be okay, netting you 9th level maneuvers in Devoted Spirit, White Raven and Stone Dragon. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of either Deepstone Sentinel OR Dwarven Defender. Being a tough son of a gun who doesn't move means that your enemies are just going to slowly walk around you while you curse them, impotently. If you MUST do that, I'd suggest instead mixing in some Bloodstorm Blade. You really need 4 levels of BsB to make things worthwhile, but if you do that, then you can throw your axe at people who laugh at you while walking slowly away, and that's a neat trick. Optimally, you're overconstrained in that case, as you want 4 levels of BsB, 14 of Cru, and at least 3 of DS. So, I'd drop down to Crusader 12 in that case, it's steely resolve 20 and a saving-throw bump across the board. I don't find mettle all that compelling, although it does come in handy at times. So, Crusader12 / BloodstormBlade4 / Deepstone Sentinel3. Add in either DS+1 or Crusader +1, depending on whether you like Mettle or Stone Curse more (at level 20, neither are super-compelling anyway). |
| #3el_magnifecoApr 11, 2008 13:48:12 | Thanks for the help, I don't think ill go Bloodstorm Blade, as its going away from the idea I have. Also, looking back at DS, I'm not sure if its what I want to do anyway, none of the abilities actually do what I'm looking for. At the moment, I think Dwarven Defender is my best bet, but if you know of any decent tanking builds that would help, I basically want him to be able to withstand a lot of punishment. |
| #4pfootiApr 11, 2008 13:58:46 | Check out DaveTheMagicWeasel's ToB for Dummies thread (it's in the surrealdex), but a basic build would be something like Crusader8 + [Warblade 1 / Crusader 2] * 4. Crusaders make amazing tanks. They deal lots of damage, they heal themselves, they generate temporary hitpoints with stone power. A crusader with a reach weapon is hard to beat. The warblade levels let you cherry-pick a few really good abilities, such as moment of perfect mind and iron heart surge, so you don't have to be paralyzed or dominated. That has multiclass issues with the dwarf, but even then, you can't go wrong with Crusader-20. The crusader even has good abilities that encourage foes to attack you, which is the hardest part of "tanking" in D&D. If you've got a 40AC and you're not going anywhere, your enemies will just walk around you and attack the caster, unless you do something about that. So, with reach and some good AoO-style things like Thicket of Blades and Defensive Rebuke, combined again with feats like Stand Still and Improved Trip, you can really control the battleground. Otherwise, you make about as much of an impact on the game as a 15' diameter rock, since you lose all your benefits when you move. If the DM plays into your shtick, sending waves of monsters to attack you, that's different, but you shouldn't rely on that. Monsters shouldn't attack the heavily-armored knight, they should attack the rogue, who does more damage, is easier to hit, and has fewer HP. Another good tanking setup is Crusader4/Cleric1/Ruby Knight Vindicator10. Or Crusader 3 / Cloistered Cleric 2 / RKV10. Not a ton of cleric casting, but enough to make it interesting, and some good exchanges for devotion feats. |
| #5el_magnifecoApr 11, 2008 14:23:51 | Thanks for that, Ill look into it more and get back to you. |
| #6operation_shoestringApr 11, 2008 14:28:01 | Thanks for the help, I don't think ill go Bloodstorm Blade, as its going away from the idea I have. Also, looking back at DS, I'm not sure if its what I want to do anyway, none of the abilities actually do what I'm looking for. At the moment, I think Dwarven Defender is my best bet, but if you know of any decent tanking builds that would help, I basically want him to be able to withstand a lot of punishment. you don't need defender for that, a single class crusader can stand a metric frakload of punishment on his own merits. |
| #7el_magnifecoApr 11, 2008 17:46:08 | Yeah, I've pretty much scrapped the Defender angle, but I will be taking 2 levels of Deepwarden for the Con bonus to AC, and maybe the Dwarven Paragon class as well, for the Con bonus and other goodies. After that I'm still not sure, may just carry on as Crusader, unless there is anything else anyone can suggest that'd be more effective. |
| #8x-codesApr 11, 2008 18:42:18 | More Crusader would be more effective. Crusader 15 will get you Immortal Fortitude, a good damage buffer, and 9th-level maneuvers. It's hard to beat that (by hard, I mean you basically would have to go full caster to even get close). |