The idea: we make an incredibly cheesy and optimized party at X level(what this thread is for), and then the contestants have to make a villain at level X+5 with Y funds that can defend his lair from them.
firstly: what level should it be? i propose a party of 20, so the villains are usable in actual games. but we could also do it like the iron siege and make it a crazy high level, for a theoretical exercise. what do you say?
i suggest lvl 10:
fighting-types are mostly on par with casters, the really crazy stuff isn't there yet but the chars start to have some real "power"
That's DEFINITELY what we're doing.
that also have the benefit of making building the chars quicker (i quit the iron siege because i dreaded the task of finishing my build so much).
The BBEG will have it's main asset in that it can use the broken monster creation rules -- or do we use some other CR guesstimation method?
How 'bout a well-meaning extremist Lumi Crusader/Cleric/RKV for a BBEG? Immunity to necromancy, negative energy and vorpal effects would be keen.
I'd also suggest using the 30-point buy equivalent stat spread of 16, 15, 14, 12, 10, 8 for the BBEG's base stats.
For the party, I would say...
A Shadowcraft Mage,
The Little Red Riding Hood,
FoI Factotum for skill monkey and...
Planar Shepherd.
For an example.
*edit*
For L10, a CR 17 BBEG, then.
Second I think it would be interesting if we could build a BBEG with a couple levels LESS than the party and see if it could defeat them. The thing that makes this possible is for them to attack the BBEG in his dungeon/castle/whatever. This is the same reason why the Iron siege has no successful champions. Home turf.
For the party, I would say...
A Shadowcraft Mage,
The Little Red Riding Hood,
FoI Factotum for skill monkey and...
Planar Shepherd.
:D Please, do this at least once! I wanna see a BBEG that can take down such legendary characters!
i like senevri's example party. may i suggest we use some variation of kell's The Rainbow In The Dark build for the shadowcraft mage? it goes Warmage 1/Rainbow Servant 10/Sacred Exorcist 1/Shadowcraft Mage 5/Incantatrix 3.
I suggest trading out warmage for Dread Necromancer(same casting mehanic + rebuking for DMM) and swapping SE for halruuan elder(circle magic ftw!)
Dread Necromancer 1/rainbow servant 10/Halruuan Elder 1/shadowcraft mage 5/incantatrix 3
Feat rogue 1/Cleric 1/PsyWar 1/Barbarian 1/Warblade 5/Blade dancer 1/Warblade +5/bloodclaw master 5
I still just wanna point out that this is the best Idea ever... or at least 2009... :D
Woo! ego boost! do you mind if i sig that?
build skeletons for the two remaining party members(very rough. needs a lot of work):
factotum 8/Warblade 6/Monk 2/Drunken master 4
(beating up people with ladders is fun)
Druid 10/Planar shepherd 10
(away from my books, where does planar shepherd get his bubble?)
oh, ia think we should designate one guy to play the party, and one guy to DM the whole thing. that way, the party wont know what's in the lair.
maybe have three guys that can work in shifts, so they can all get the opportunity to try with a villain of their own.
oh, ia think we should designate one guy to play the party
Why don't you run the party, Hijaxx? This is YOUR idea and your party the BBEG will be facing
but i know from personal experience that it kinda hard to act like you dont know something you do, like if someone is supposed to be invisble, but in reality you can see them.
therefore i think there should be one guy to run the party, one guy to DM, one guy to fill in if either of the others want to try BBEGing.
and btw, not my party alone. if it wasn't clear from the thread, i want you people to help me optimize the party. im not the most adept optimizer, and for this we need the best of the besttm
Do the good guys have to be Good aligned? Are there racial restrictions? Templates? Is LA buyoff allowed? Any books/Prc's not allowed? What point buy?
for this we need the best of the besttm
Why not ask some of the board regulars(DocRoc, Phaedrus, JWO etc.) for help?
Also something to think about is minions for the bad guy. Either way this seems interesting. I suggest a ban on tauric creatures, or I predict that to be the first winner.
Just a quick thing if we make the good characters twentieth level and optimized to be the best. The bad guys may bad guys may not be useful to anyone especially if if they succeed at killing the adventurers. I suggest level fifteen for good guys, and 12 CR for the main villain so the villains can be usable for other campaigns.
Level 15 actually sounds good for a beginning. You do one at this level and then a higher level (which could be the boss of this one)
new build skeletons:
dread necromancer 1/Rainbow servant 10/SCM 4
feat rogue 1/cleric 1/psywar 1/barbarian 1/warblade 10/blade dancer 1
factotum 8/warblade 7
druid 5/planar shepherd 10(again, im AFB, what level do druid qualifi, and waht level do planar shepherd get bubble?)
@badger: i could do that. thats partly why we have this thread. however, i hadn't considered asking them directly. but maybe i will.
Also isn't dread necro an evil bad guy class that overlaps a bunch with the cleric spell list, necromatically at least. I think beguiler is the better option if your throwing SCM at the end.
Why not ask some of the board regulars(DocRoc, Phaedrus, JWO etc.) for help?
I'm already thinking about how to build the BBEG to beat the proposed parties posted here.
I think I'll refrain from helping on the "good guys", as they have enough of an advantage as it is. :DAlso, really, does nobody have any input on the good guys i posted? we can't seriously consider them a real supertask as they are. powerful yes, but they lack the powerful cheesesmell of twaeking and feats selection.
i sent doc roc a PM. also i'm thinking of asking endaire, since he made the Little red raiding hood.
Also, really, does nobody have any input on the good guys i posted? we can't seriously consider them a real supertask as they are. powerful yes, but they lack the powerful cheesesmell of twaeking and feats selection.
10:1 time ratio isn't cheesy?
I'm already thinking about how to build the BBEG to beat the proposed parties posted here.
^See? Phaedrus thinks they are plenty powerful all ready as well.
"Father, Why have you left me?"
-The Jesus man.
(too lazy to do search for latin quote)
edit: ninjaed
yes, that particular one is pretty cheesy, they all are(to differing degree. the SCM and factotum needs a notch of cheddar).
but we still need to finish the builds.
ok, maybe our stealing of existing builds concept has given us a lot to work with.
but the abovementioned builds need work to compare to the others.
I also think that the travel devotion is solid gold for a factotum.
PhaedrusXY's Master of Shrouds.. Monk1 /Cleric2 /Master of Shrouds 10/ Cleric2
Dread Wraith's on the good guys side anyone?
Another Idea for a "Good Guy"
PhaedrusXY's Master of Shrouds.. Monk1 /Cleric2 /Master of Shrouds 10/ Cleric2
Dread Wraith's on the good guys side anyone?
They do need a cleric. I know they already have a Druid for the divine stuff, but the cleric list has some great stuff....
Good Guys need a good cleric build, maybe a cheater or twice-betrayer?
@contronym & badger: we're kinda doing a 4-party thing here.
Master Wong
Warmage 2/Factotum 8/Iajutsu master 5
30-point buy:
str 12
dex 10
con 10
int 26 (+2 levels, +6 item)
wis 9 (+1 level)
cha 20 (+6 item)
Human-Weapon focus(katana)
Flaw#1-improved initiative
Flaw#2-quick draw
1-FoI
3-FoI
6-FoI
IM-Skill focus(Iajutsu focus)
9-FoI
12-FoI
15-FoI
important skill: Iajutsu focus 18(+26)
max spell level of ardent dilletante: 2(3 spells known/day)
(AFB, need somebody to do maneuvers for me)
Warmage 2/Factotum 8/Iajutsu master 5
30-point buy:
str 12
dex 10
con 10
int 26 (+2 levels, +6 item)
wis 9 (+1 level)
cha 20 (+6 item)
Human-Weapon focus(katana)
Flaw#1-improved initiative
Flaw#2-quick draw
1-FoI
3-FoI
6-FoI
IM-Skill focus(Iajutsu focus)
9-FoI
12-FoI
15-FoI
important skill: Iajutsu focus 18(+26)
max spell level of ardent dilletante: 2(3 spells known/day)
(AFB, need somebody to do maneuvers for me)
10:1 time ratio isn't cheesy?
Isn't it only 10:1 on a normal time plane? The BBEG could be on an infinite fast plane, which would leave him with an 1:infinite time ratio if he ever activates that ability.
So... are we ready for me to destroy these guys with a build 3 levels lower, or what? :D
You act like its going to be hard.