Defender Optimization - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 gorthawar Aug 07, 2009 6:17:49	I've been asked to join a game of Midnight recently and decided to try the defender class found here. Now I'm wondering how to optimize this bugger. Allowed Books: Midnight Campaign Setting, Core, PHB2 I think that with the limited amount of magic a build based on grappling and stunning fist is probably the best idea but if you have better or other ideas that would be great. The game will probably start at lvl 1 with a 28 pts build. Erenlander Defender Human: Erenlander * +2 bonus on one ability score of the player's choice, -2 penalty on one other ability of the player's choice. * Medium-size * Base land speed 30 feet. * 2 extra feats at 1st level. * 8 extra skill points at 1st level and 2 extra skill points at each additional level. * Weapon Familiarity: An Erenlander may choose a single exotic weapon associated with either Dorns or Sarcosans. He may treat that weapon as a martial weapon, rather than an exotic weapon. * Favored Region: Northern Erenland, Central Erenland, or Southern Erenland. * Erenlanders begin with 4 bonus ranks in one Craft or Profession skill of the player's choice. * Automatic Language: Erenlander. Bonus Languages: Any. * Favored Class: Any
#2 CantripN Aug 07, 2009 6:52:06	Consider combining it with a Knight for 3 or 6 levels, and taking Standstill.
#3 gryfter Aug 07, 2009 12:17:45	What about Throwing Darts + One With the Weapon (Requires Offensive Training): The defender chooses one weapon with which defenders are normally proficient. The defender maynow use masterful strike, precise strike, and the Stunning Fist feat with that weapon. + Optional: Devastating Strike (Requires Grappling Training and Offensive Training): When a defender has successfully stunned a foe with a stunning attack, he can opt to initiate a bull rush as a free action. + Master Thrower goodness? Stun 4 people with palm throw and Two with one blow? Maybe add in trip shot to stun AND trip. With all the disable and your increased movement ability if you take speed training, you should rarely have to get into range of being hit by anyone.
#4 gorthawar Aug 07, 2009 16:13:05	Consider combining it with a Knight for 3 or 6 levels, and taking Standstill. Bulwark of defense is always nice to have but I fear that a Knight might be a very suicidal class choice in a campaign setting where wearing arms and armor is prohibited by death. What about One With the Weapon (Requires Offensive Training): The defender chooses one weapon with which defenders are normally proficient. The defender may now use masterful strike, precise strike, and the Stunning Fist feat with that weapon. That ranges stunning fist looked really interesting to me but combinig it with master thrower makes it really awesome. Thanks for the hint! Best thing about it is that the prerequisite for offensive training adds blindness/deafness for str. mod rounds to the one round of stun and this all works at lvl 6 already. Erenlander Defender5/MasterThrower5/Defender10 Quickened Heroic Path Str: 14 +2 Racial Dex: 16 Con 14 Int 12 -2 Racial Wis: 10 Cha: 8 Feats: L1: WF (Darts), PBS, PS L3: Ability Focus (Stunning fist) L6: TWF L9: ITWF Or would you take TWF before Ability Focus? If I spend my attribute poins from lvls on str. I'll end up with 21 Str and 20 Dex is that ok? Or would you push one of these more then the other?
#5 gryfter Aug 07, 2009 18:02:40	I think far shot would be a necessary feat to take early. I'm not sure how much two weapon fighting will help you, since you shouldn't be making a ton of full attacks. It's almost like a spring attack build if you take speed training. Move up, throw stun/trip/bullrush, move back. Remember you can only stunning fist on 1 attack (which could effectively hit 4 people if they are formed right with double toss and two with one blow). There's also some very cheap gloves in the Magic Item Compendium that give you TWF or ITWF if you have TWF. As for Str/Dex, I would probably say dex is more important, but it's personal preference. It's Stunning Fist DC vs. To hit, AC, Trip chance, etc.
#6 gryfter Aug 07, 2009 18:27:25	Also, are you allowed to multi-class with core classes? After you cherry pick the maneuvers you want from the defender list, there's really not any reason to continue in it, IMO. Maybe add in some rogue or a little swift hunter? After looking at the bloodlines briefly, my favorite was chanceborn, although burst of speed from quickened was pretty awesome. Maybe PRC with some the the luck stuff in complete scoundrel, or just look at some of the luck feats.

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

gorthawar

Aug 07, 2009 6:17:49

I've been asked to join a game of Midnight recently and decided to try the defender class found here. Now I'm wondering how to optimize this bugger.

Allowed Books: Midnight Campaign Setting, Core, PHB2

I think that with the limited amount of magic a build based on grappling and stunning fist is probably the best idea but if you have better or other ideas that would be great.

The game will probably start at lvl 1 with a 28 pts build.

Erenlander Defender

Human: Erenlander

* +2 bonus on one ability score of the player's choice, -2 penalty on one other ability of the player's choice.
* Medium-size
* Base land speed 30 feet.
* 2 extra feats at 1st level.
* 8 extra skill points at 1st level and 2 extra skill points at each additional level.
* Weapon Familiarity: An Erenlander may choose a single exotic weapon associated with either Dorns or Sarcosans. He may treat that weapon as a martial weapon, rather than an exotic weapon.
* Favored Region: Northern Erenland, Central Erenland, or Southern Erenland.
* Erenlanders begin with 4 bonus ranks in one Craft or Profession skill of the player's choice.
* Automatic Language: Erenlander. Bonus Languages: Any.
* Favored Class: Any

CantripN

Aug 07, 2009 6:52:06

Consider combining it with a Knight for 3 or 6 levels, and taking Standstill.

gryfter

Aug 07, 2009 12:17:45

What about

Throwing Darts

+

One With the Weapon (Requires Offensive Training): The defender chooses one weapon with which defenders are normally proficient. The defender maynow use masterful strike, precise strike, and the Stunning Fist feat with that weapon.

+

Optional: Devastating Strike (Requires Grappling Training and Offensive Training): When a defender has successfully stunned a foe with a stunning attack, he can opt to initiate a bull rush as a free action.

+

Master Thrower goodness? Stun 4 people with palm throw and Two with one blow? Maybe add in trip shot to stun AND trip.

With all the disable and your increased movement ability if you take speed training, you should rarely have to get into range of being hit by anyone.

gorthawar

Aug 07, 2009 16:13:05

Consider combining it with a Knight for 3 or 6 levels, and taking Standstill.

Bulwark of defense is always nice to have but I fear that a Knight might be a very suicidal class choice in a campaign setting where wearing arms and armor is prohibited by death.

What about
One With the Weapon (Requires Offensive Training): The defender chooses one weapon with which defenders are normally proficient. The defender may now use masterful strike, precise strike, and the Stunning Fist feat with that weapon.

That ranges stunning fist looked really interesting to me but combinig it with master thrower makes it really awesome. Thanks for the hint! Best thing about it is that the prerequisite for offensive training adds blindness/deafness for str. mod rounds to the one round of stun and this all works at lvl 6 already.

Erenlander Defender5/MasterThrower5/Defender10
Quickened Heroic Path

Str: 14 +2 Racial
Dex: 16
Con 14
Int 12 -2 Racial
Wis: 10
Cha: 8

Feats:
L1: WF (Darts), PBS, PS
L3: Ability Focus (Stunning fist)
L6: TWF
L9: ITWF

Or would you take TWF before Ability Focus?
If I spend my attribute poins from lvls on str. I'll end up with
21 Str and 20 Dex is that ok? Or would you push one of these more then the other?

gryfter

Aug 07, 2009 18:02:40

I think far shot would be a necessary feat to take early.

I'm not sure how much two weapon fighting will help you, since you shouldn't be making a ton of full attacks. It's almost like a spring attack build if you take speed training. Move up, throw stun/trip/bullrush, move back. Remember you can only stunning fist on 1 attack (which could effectively hit 4 people if they are formed right with double toss and two with one blow).

There's also some very cheap gloves in the Magic Item Compendium that give you TWF or ITWF if you have TWF.

As for Str/Dex, I would probably say dex is more important, but it's personal preference.

It's Stunning Fist DC

vs.

To hit, AC, Trip chance, etc.

gryfter

Aug 07, 2009 18:27:25

Also, are you allowed to multi-class with core classes?

After you cherry pick the maneuvers you want from the defender list, there's really not any reason to continue in it, IMO. Maybe add in some rogue or a little swift hunter?

After looking at the bloodlines briefly, my favorite was chanceborn, although burst of speed from quickened was pretty awesome. Maybe PRC with some the the luck stuff in complete scoundrel, or just look at some of the luck feats.