Design my next 3.5 character: Hit and Run rogue or fighter - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

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#1 hotdog113 Jan 25, 2010 19:18:00	Ok, here's what I want: a rogue or ranger who is adept at scouting ahead for the party, wears no or light armor, and in combat moves around, and can do well with hit and run style tactics...so yes, spring attack or something like that would be essential. Basically I want the character not to be stationary and take an opponent's full attack mode. I was thinking some combo of rogue and swashbuckler, with maybe duellist as a PRC, but there might be better comboes out there...even rogue fighter maybe for the extra feats? Also, with the lack of armor, any kind of bonuses to AC would be great.... I'm not locked into the above classes....if a Monk had the right skill package I'd say go with that. PHB, PHB 2, The Complete books, Miniatures book, exalted book, are all valid for the campaign. Thanks for any ideas!
#2 NiteCyper Jan 25, 2010 19:25:52	Where are my manners? Hit-and-Run tactics Fighter variant DotU for DEX to damage against the flat-footed, because it is so pertinent to this thread's title. Martial Monk (Dragon Magazine) for Spring Attack without prereqs. Kung Fu Genius or Carmendine Monk for INT to AC instead of WIS as Monk. 3 levels of Swashbuckler is considered best along with the Arcane Stunt ACF (Expeditious Retreat, Swift). Beguiler (ShS) + Beguiler (PHBII) + Mindbender PrC + Mindsight feat (LoM), because saying you're a "Beguiler Beguiler" is funny. Quick Reconnoiter for free action listen and spot checks. Check the Mole Handbook for hit-and-run options, e.g. flyby attack, burrow, Hide in Plain Sight?, etc.. Two levels of Ranger is a good dip. I think the breakoff point for Rogue is 3. If you use it and the Swashbuckler base class for a while, take Daring Outlaw (CSc) for synergy. re: "take an opponent's full attack mode": You aren't clear on what you mean by this; do you mean you want to be able to take a hit from a full-attacking opponent, or be able to handle an opponent who's in "full attack mode"? For the former, maybe you should just play a normal fighter (instead of a "squishy" Rogue). Take Rogue at first level for the skill-points. I think the Duelist sucks because that's what the PrC Tier system told me, IF I RECALL CORRECTLY. If you're a Human, check out the Able Learner feat from Races of Destiny. Factotum's a good base class from Dungeonscape. Combine that with Able Learner for wicked synergy. Knowledge Devotion feat (Complete Champion) may interest you as synergetic with the skills you'd get from Rogue. Combine with Trivial Knowledge (if you're a (Whisper) Gnome) for synergy. There's plenty of ideas, but no solid concept you are demanding. Addendum: Rogue 20, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack? Maybe try and fit in the TWF feat-tree for better precision-damage profileration. "proliferation." Dictionary.com Unabridged. Random House, Inc. 25 Jan. 2010. dictionary.reference.com/browse/prolifer...>. Addendum: Perhaps you'd fancy Incarnum (Magic of Incarnum)? Psionic(s)? Initiation (Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords)? As a Swordsage, you'd get your WIS to AC. Take the Shadow Blade feat for DEX to (melee?) damage. It even gets 6(6+INT) skill-points at first level which is more than any other class, however many would protest that this is a typo. In which case, the most skill-points to get would be through the Changeling Rogue sub level which grants 4(10+INT) skill-points at first level. I think the Changeling lets you qualify for Warshaper which is always a melee boon. .com For early Spring-Attacking without the feat-tree and without the broken Martial Monk variant, instead opt for the Raptoran race and Flyby attack feat. The Dragonborn template can also grant you flight, but late. The Mineral Warrior template is also a powerful LA +1 template that grants a high DR and the ability to burrow. For an example of a Dark Raptoran Swordsage, try and find Tleilaxu_Ghola's "Ghost" character-competition entry. It may have been archived and lost by now.
#3 Contranym Jan 25, 2010 20:38:15	How many levels are you looking at Hotdog113?
#4 hotdog113 Jan 25, 2010 20:49:38	20 levels, starting at 2nd, Also, I can do the 36 point build or roll for stats.
#5 gorfnad_the_shiznit Jan 26, 2010 2:23:04	Ok, here's what I want: a rogue or ranger who is adept at scouting ahead for the party, wears no or light armor, and in combat moves around, and can do well with hit and run style tactics...so yes, spring attack or something like that would be essential. How about a Swift Hunter? Human Scout - Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot Scout Ranger - Arcane Hunter Alternate Class Feature (Complete Mage) - Dodge, B: Track Ranger - B: Rapid Shot Scout Scout - Mobility, B: Swift Hunter Scout Ranger - B: Endurance Ranger - Distracting Attack ACF (Players Handbook II) - Shot on the Run Ranger Ranger - B: Manyshot Ranger - Sword of the Arcane Order Ranger Ranger - Spell Reflection ACF (Complete Mage) Ranger - Darkstalker or Practiced Spellcaster Ranger - B: Improved Precise Shot Ranger Ranger - Improved Skirmish Ranger Ranger You can definitely "scout" ahead with this build. You'll basically want a Mithril Chain Shirt for armor for this build. Shot on the Run +Manyshot +Skirmish makes for some decent damage potential and keeps your character moving around the battlefield. As a bonus you'll have ranger and wizard spells for support as well.
#6 phoenix00 Jan 26, 2010 10:30:05	You need greater manyshot for skirmish due to skirmish being precision damage. That or a way to get an extra move action followed by a full attack/rapid shot (such as travel devotion). You need improved skirmish much sooner for that greatly boosts your damage (7 more damage per arrow).
#7 phaedrusxy Jan 26, 2010 12:15:14	A dervish build sounds like it would fit the bill quite well, also. The duelist PrC is a complete piece of garbage, and you should forget that you ever saw it.

Where are my manners?

Hit-and-Run tactics Fighter variant DotU for DEX to damage against the flat-footed, because it is so pertinent to this thread's title.
Martial Monk (Dragon Magazine) for Spring Attack without prereqs. Kung Fu Genius or Carmendine Monk for INT to AC instead of WIS as Monk.
3 levels of Swashbuckler is considered best along with the Arcane Stunt ACF (Expeditious Retreat, Swift).
Beguiler (ShS) + Beguiler (PHBII) + Mindbender PrC + Mindsight feat (LoM), because saying you're a "Beguiler Beguiler" is funny.
Quick Reconnoiter for free action listen and spot checks.
Check the Mole Handbook for hit-and-run options, e.g. flyby attack, burrow, Hide in Plain Sight?, etc..
Two levels of Ranger is a good dip.
I think the breakoff point for Rogue is 3. If you use it and the Swashbuckler base class for a while, take Daring Outlaw (CSc) for synergy.
re: "take an opponent's full attack mode": You aren't clear on what you mean by this; do you mean you want to be able to take a hit from a full-attacking opponent, or be able to handle an opponent who's in "full attack mode"? For the former, maybe you should just play a normal fighter (instead of a "squishy" Rogue).
Take Rogue at first level for the skill-points.
I think the Duelist sucks because that's what the PrC Tier system told me, IF I RECALL CORRECTLY.
If you're a Human, check out the Able Learner feat from Races of Destiny.
Factotum's a good base class from Dungeonscape. Combine that with Able Learner for wicked synergy.
Knowledge Devotion feat (Complete Champion) may interest you as synergetic with the skills you'd get from Rogue. Combine with Trivial Knowledge (if you're a (Whisper) Gnome) for synergy.

There's plenty of ideas, but no solid concept you are demanding.

Addendum: Rogue 20, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack? Maybe try and fit in the TWF feat-tree for better precision-damage profileration.

"proliferation." Dictionary.com Unabridged. Random House, Inc. 25 Jan. 2010. dictionary.reference.com/browse/prolifer...>.

Addendum: Perhaps you'd fancy Incarnum (Magic of Incarnum)? Psionic(s)? Initiation (Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords)?

As a Swordsage, you'd get your WIS to AC. Take the Shadow Blade feat for DEX to (melee?) damage. It even gets 6*(6+INT) skill-points at first level which is more than any other class, however many would protest that this is a typo. In which case, the most skill-points to get would be through the Changeling Rogue sub level which grants 4*(10+INT) skill-points at first level. I think the Changeling lets you qualify for Warshaper which is always a melee boon.
.com

For early Spring-Attacking without the feat-tree and without the broken Martial Monk variant, instead opt for the Raptoran race and Flyby attack feat. The Dragonborn template can also grant you flight, but late. The Mineral Warrior template is also a powerful LA +1 template that grants a high DR and the ability to burrow. For an example of a Dark Raptoran Swordsage, try and find Tleilaxu_Ghola's "Ghost" character-competition entry. It may have been archived and lost by now.